Proposal: MTL-STL at draft

[viceroy]

I'm hearing Montreal has the deepest pool in the league but it is missing high end offense prospects. Blues are the mirror image, have Lindstein who had a fantastic WJC and looks strong but otherwise could use at least one more high end defenseman.

Yeah we got lotsa D, lots, too many even. Here's who's available for the right price: Harris, Struble, Norlinder, Engstrom*, Konyushkov*, Trudeau and finally Barron.

p.s. the kids with the * are guys you should look in on.

Montreal is wishing for Demidov/Lindstrom to be available.

Don't get the Lindstrom love. Sure he's big but you know he's kinda meh in my book. I mean sure if he was going late 1st coolsies but people are saying he'll go top 3. *smh*

Think Brett Kulak....

Yeah. When I see either one of them play I feel kinda... whelmed is all.

 

[Lockin17]

ASSUMPTION is neither team wins a lottery jump ...

MTL 1st rounder 2024

for

STL 1st rounder 2024
STL 2d rounder 2024
TOR 2d rounder 2024

Edit: clearly could have picked a different top 10-looking team ... for MTL fans who's your top available top pairing potential young defenseman and are things like Zach Bolduc, Blues 1st 2024, Joel Hofer (not all together!) of balancing interest for that player?

Counter

MTL: #6
for
STL : Dvorsky + STL 2nd + TOR 2nd

 

[jjniner]

Counter

Montreal #6

Snuggy straight up

 

[Ezpz]

Counter

MTL: #6
for
STL : Dvorsky + STL 2nd + TOR 2nd

TBH Dvorsky was a lot of our worst nightmares at 5 last year. I think I'd rather have the first. Dvorsky's numbers look good but the context of being the third wheel on his line on top of not being able to grab a top 9 role in Sweden despite being so physically developed don't look as good.

I feel like the only deal that makes sense for the Habs is Snuggerud. He's ready sooner than whoever is at 5-8 will be.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Counter

MTL: #6
for
STL : Dvorsky + STL 2nd + TOR 2nd

Counter

Montreal #6

Snuggy straight up

The top is probably overpaying, unless you don't value Dvorsky highly. If you don't, then it doesn't make sense for the Blues.

The bottom might be closer to what it would take, and St. Louis has to decide if it really wants that guy badly enough and thinks enough of all the other forward prospects to move out Snuggerud.

 

[Lockin17]

TBH Dvorsky was a lot of our worst nightmares at 5 last year. I think I'd rather have the first. Dvorsky's numbers look good but the context of being the third wheel on his line on top of not being able to grab a top 9 role in Sweden despite being so physically developed don't look as good.

I feel like the only deal that makes sense for the Habs is Snuggerud. He's ready sooner than whoever is at 5-8 will be.

I'd take Dvorsky wayy before Snuggerud

 

[jjniner]

We need an opportunity to draft a number one D. Not that they will turn out. We will not get that opportunity at 15. I would be willing to trade Snuggy. I think he is closer to,the NHL than Dv. Although 5-6 years down the road I think Dv will be better.

 

[HabsAddict]

Problem with trades is that they don't happen in a vacuum.

1...Habs need high end talent like Thomas/Kyrou. Blues won't trade them.

2. Ghule would only be available for high end talent. NEVER for picks or quantity.

1 and 2 are mutually incompatible.

What Habs can trade are Harris/Struble/Barron. All are NHL ready and top 6 with potential of moving to top 4. However, here is the catch, Habs have a trainload of bottom 6 so trading for more does not make any sense. The trade must have a player that is at least middle 6 or not worth making a trade.

Is Bolduc a middle 6 for one of our defenseman listed above?

Is Neighbors available for one of our defenseman and our late 1st?

Is Hofer available for one of our defenseman and our late 1st?

 

[PocketNines]

Problem with trades is that they don't happen in a vacuum.

1...Habs need high end talent like Thomas/Kyrou. Blues won't trade them.

2. Ghule would only be available for high end talent. NEVER for picks or quantity.

1 and 2 are mutually incompatible.

What Habs can trade are Harris/Struble/Barron. All are NHL ready and top 6 with potential of moving to top 4. However, here is the catch, Habs have a trainload of bottom 6 so trading for more does not make any sense. The trade must have a player that is at least middle 6 or not worth making a trade.

Is Bolduc a middle 6 for one of our defenseman listed above?

Is Neighbors available for one of our defenseman and our late 1st?

Is Hofer available for one of our defenseman and our late 1st?

Neighbours isn't available.

Hofer would be available where we are selling him for a top 10 pick. Team gets its 1G already settling into the NHL, a team absolutely has to pay for that if they wanted it

Bolduc is definitely a middle-6 type. His + attribute is his shot, but he's also defensively responsible and just led his team to the Memorial Cup. He's a winger so he's not as objectively valued as a D or C but this is a young scoring piece and a legitimate first round prospect who is developing fine. If there is one single team in this league that crushes its forward picks in the mid-late first it is the St. Louis Blues.

Believe me, if I believed for one minute we could put together a deal around Kyrou and Guhle, Blues nation would have Kyrou's bags packed for him by the time you finish this sentence

 

[pth2]

Some kind of a deal seems possible... but overall, it comes down to a lot of information we don't have, and might never have - where the picks end up, who is available when the Habs pick, how much both teams value Dvorsky/Snuggerud, etc.

But I could imagine that if the top forwards are gone, the remaining ones don't seem attractive to Montreal scouts, but are attractive to STL's, something might get worked out. I'd bet more on STL sending a prospect than on a package of picks to trade up.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Re: Hofer for a top-10 pick - the best example we have of something like this is when New Jersey traded the 9th overall pick for Cory Schneider.

Schneider was 26, had about 100 games under his belt, had been the backup to Luongo for 3 seasons and was clearly ready to be the #1 but was stuck behind Luongo who Vancouver showed no sign of moving. It was a bold move, but people saw it and said "you know what, if you can get a #1 goalie for the 9th overall you do it" because in 2013 Schneider could have been the #1 goalie for over half the teams in the league and moved a handful of them from "outside the playoffs" to "in the playoffs."

Hofer is 23, has 34 NHL games to his name. He's been OK, had moments where he looked really good but also had moments where he wasn't as good. More importantly, no one is saying "right now, Joel Hofer is a #1 goalie in the NHL." Maybe he might be for a couple teams because their goaltending is that bad, but at 34 games of experience it's still banking a lot on potential and there's a reason to believe Hofer could look bad on a bad team. Might Hofer be a #1 in the league down the road? Sure, he could be, but on March 27, 2024 no one is giving up the 9th overall pick for him.

 

[pth2]

Re: Hofer for a top-10 pick - the best example we have of something like this is when New Jersey traded the 9th overall pick for Cory Schneider.

Schneider was 26, had about 100 games under his belt, had been the backup to Luongo for 3 seasons and was clearly ready to be the #1 but was stuck behind Luongo who Vancouver showed no sign of moving. It was a bold move, but people saw it and said "you know what, if you can get a #1 goalie for the 9th overall you do it" because in 2013 Schneider could have been the #1 goalie for over half the teams in the league and moved a handful of them from "outside the playoffs" to "in the playoffs."

Hofer is 23, has 34 NHL games to his name. He's been OK, had moments where he looked really good but also had moments where he wasn't as good. More importantly, no one is saying "right now, Joel Hofer is a #1 goalie in the NHL." Maybe he might be for a couple teams because their goaltending is that bad, but at 34 games of experience it's still banking a lot on potential and there's a reason to believe Hofer could look bad on a bad team. Might Hofer be a #1 in the league down the road? Sure, he could be, but on March 27, 2024 no one is giving up the 9th overall pick for him.

9th for Schneider was generally seen as an overpay, TBH, but it was bold for NJ to go out and get a clear high-end solution to a gaping hole in their lineup.

All of which makes Hofer for a top 10 pick even less likely, IMO.

 

[HabsAddict]

Neighbours isn't available.

Hofer would be available where we are selling him for a top 10 pick. Team gets its 1G already settling into the NHL, a team absolutely has to pay for that if they wanted it

Bolduc is definitely a middle-6 type. His + attribute is his shot, but he's also defensively responsible and just led his team to the Memorial Cup. He's a winger so he's not as objectively valued as a D or C but this is a young scoring piece and a legitimate first round prospect who is developing fine. If there is one single team in this league that crushes its forward picks in the mid-late first it is the St. Louis Blues.

Believe me, if I believed for one minute we could put together a deal around Kyrou and Guhle, Blues nation would have Kyrou's bags packed for him by the time you finish this sentence

I'm suprised you are so quick to send a 75 point center.

Is there an issue with him?

I 9nly threw him in based on numbers and haven't seen much of him.

 

[Whalers Fan]

got it, and I would do that deal

would you consider a different deal ... Guhle for Blues 1st + Bolduc?

the outcome we are trying to achieve is get a very good young defenseman specifically, and we have a bunch of forwards we drafted last year achieving and overachieving. the goal of trading up with Montreal in the OP is specifically to get one of the top available defensemen

Not interested in trading Guhle.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I’m sorry but neither of those assets - Even stacked together - Would get you anywhere close to a top pairing potential young D.

If the roles were reversed, would you be interested in that kind of package for your future top pairing guy?

We don’t have one of those

 

[BleedBlue14]

I'm suprised you are so quick to send a 75 point center.

Is there an issue with him?

I 9nly threw him in based on numbers and haven't seen much of him.

He’s not a center. He’s enigmatic for the fan base due to his risky style of play.

We cried and moaned about him having no semblance of a defensive game last season. Now he’s had a clear revelation in back checking and puck hounding and isn’t scoring at the same level.

We aren’t used to growing pains with players. I wouldn’t put too much stock into it. At the end of the day he’s one of the most dynamic players in the league, but there’s a chance with his sloppy puck management at times he could also be a net negative some games.

I’d highly doubt he’s moved, unless we are adamant about getting away from being able to play as a rush team.

 

[Whalers Fan]

9th for Schneider was generally seen as an overpay, TBH, but it was bold for NJ to go out and get a clear high-end solution to a gaping hole in their lineup.

All of which makes Hofer for a top 10 pick even less likely, IMO.

And with the Habs current goaltending situation, Hofer is not a need. Monty is fine as the current starter, and there is now depth in the prospect pool at this position. If Montreal trades their own 2024 1st, it's not going to be for a goalie.

 

[Baksfamous112]

We don’t have one of those

That’s a very fair point

 

[PocketNines]

I'm suprised you are so quick to send a 75 point center.

Is there an issue with him?

I 9nly threw him in based on numbers and haven't seen much of him.

the other fan told you there has been "a clear revelation" in his defensive game but his defensive game is wholly insufficient still. it was just so so so horrendous previously. he is also not a center.

 

[General Fanager]

Neighbours isn't available.

Hofer would be available where we are selling him for a top 10 pick. Team gets its 1G already settling into the NHL, a team absolutely has to pay for that if they wanted it

Bolduc is definitely a middle-6 type. His + attribute is his shot, but he's also defensively responsible and just led his team to the Memorial Cup. He's a winger so he's not as objectively valued as a D or C but this is a young scoring piece and a legitimate first round prospect who is developing fine. If there is one single team in this league that crushes its forward picks in the mid-late first it is the St. Louis Blues.

Believe me, if I believed for one minute we could put together a deal around Kyrou and Guhle, Blues nation would have Kyrou's bags packed for him by the time you finish this sentence

No disrespect but no one would pay a top 10 pick for Hofer....

And with the Habs current goaltending situation, Hofer is not a need. Monty is fine as the current starter, and there is now depth in the prospect pool at this position. If Montreal trades their own 2024 1st, it's not going to be for a goalie.

Exactly...If that 24 1st is on the table it will be for a young forward....

 

[Scintillating10]

ASSUMPTION is neither team wins a lottery jump ...

MTL 1st rounder 2024

for

STL 1st rounder 2024
STL 2d rounder 2024
TOR 2d rounder 2024

Edit: clearly could have picked a different top 10-looking team ... for MTL fans who's your top available top pairing potential young defenseman and are things like Zach Bolduc, Blues 1st 2024, Joel Hofer (not all together!) of balancing interest for that player?

Pass, very slim chance Montreal traded their pick. Certainly not for that

 

[Mersss]

got it, and I would do that deal

would you consider a different deal ... Guhle for Blues 1st + Bolduc?

the outcome we are trying to achieve is get a very good young defenseman specifically, and we have a bunch of forwards we drafted last year achieving and overachieving. the goal of trading up with Montreal in the OP is specifically to get one of the top available defensemen

Lol Bolduc is a throw in piece for Guhle

I can fully acknowledge Guhle's value and I was in the vanguard of the AYFKM reaction to Armstrong letting a #1 HOF defenseman in his prime walk over him wanting NMC and being treated like the prize he had earned being considered. In all honesty our equivalent forward is Neighbours, his brief junior teammate, draft classmate and good friend. He'd have to be in a Guhle package. He is a very special player, Neighbours.

Let Guhle and Neighbours alone. Is there another high end defensive prospect who would be available out of Montreal's system?

Guhle is already a top 2 D
Neighbours is not a top line Forward.

If you want Guhle. The iklt player that makes sense for the Habs is Robert Thomas, that's it.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Based on recent history, St. Louis is only selecting Top 10 by trading a core type player for it. No movement has occurred in that range since 2008.

You mean besides the Rangers jumping 15 spots in 2021? I don't know how different (if at all) the odds were in the covid year.

Unless you're talking trades. I might have misunderstood your comment.

 

[Ford Prefect]

If you want Guhle. The iklt player that makes sense for the Habs is Robert Thomas, that's it.

I don't think there is any likelihood that St. Louis would entertain any offers from the Habs that doesn't include Suzuki. From just a pure value aspect I suspect it would be somewhere along the lines of Guhle and and #6.

 

[HabsAddict]

the other fan told you there has been "a clear revelation" in his defensive game but his defensive game is wholly insufficient still. it was just so so so horrendous previously. he is also not a center.

I'm a devout 200ft fan. Makes no sense to have a player scoring 40 and be -40.

To me players like Gainey were more interesting then single focus scorers.