Proposal: MTL-STL at draft

[PocketNines]

I’m sorry but neither of those assets - Even stacked together - Would get you anywhere close to a top pairing potential young D.

If the roles were reversed, would you be interested in that kind of package for your future top pairing guy?

I was told the Montreal system was loaded and they were looking for a high end forward so. I asked if there was any concrete specific player who was available given the surplus. I saw Guhle's name float past the trade board recently. He went at 16. Blues hold 16 at the moment. Bolduc went 17 who is just now debuting and he's going to be an NHL player, we can see it

Pretty sparky for a guy who included a pick his team didn't have in the OP

In fairness to me, I was clearly receptive to the feedback and you then decided to make your extra extra point, if we are playing the name what's really going on game

 

[Captain Mountain]

ASSUMPTION is neither team wins a lottery jump ...

MTL 1st rounder 2024

for

STL 1st rounder 2024
STL 2d rounder 2024
TOR 2d rounder 2024

Edit: clearly could have picked a different top 10-looking team ... for MTL fans who's your top available top pairing potential young defenseman and are things like Zach Bolduc, Blues 1st 2024, Joel Hofer (not all together!) of balancing interest for that player?

I'm not sure there's any team in the top-10 that would be interested in moving down to 16ish for two mid to late 2nds. Most teams in top 10 have extra picks in the first two rounds, deep prospect pools and/or aren't interested in futures.

For the edit, I don't don't know what qualifies as a top pairing potential young defenseman, but if you're talking about guys like Guhle, I'm not sure Zach Bolduc, Blues 1st 2024 and Joel Hofer together would interest Montreal. Montreal's probably not interest in Hofer and would rather develop guys like Primeau, Dobes and Fowler. A mid round 1st is good, but not really something a team like Montreal who has extra 1st in the next two drafts would value that much and I don't think Bolduc is the caliber of prospect/young forward that would interest them, it sounds like if they make a trade it would be for someone with more upside or that is more proven.

The only chance Montreal would consider something like this is if they don't like anyone at their pick, but I think that's pretty unlikely.

 

[PocketNines]

I'm not sure there's any team in the top-10 that would be interested in moving down to 16ish for two mid to late 2nds. Most teams in top 10 have extra picks in the first two rounds, deep prospect pools and/or aren't interested in futures.

For the edit, I don't don't know what qualifies as a top pairing potential young defenseman, but if you're talking about guys like Guhle, I'm not sure Zach Bolduc, Blues 1st 2024 and Joel Hofer together would interest Montreal. Montreal's probably not interest in Hofer and would rather develop guys like Primeau, Dobes and Fowler. A mid round 1st is good, but not really something a team like Montreal who has extra 1st in the next two drafts would value that much and I don't think Bolduc is the caliber of prospect/young forward that would interest them, it sounds like if they make a trade it would be for someone with more upside or that is more proven.

The only chance Montreal would consider something like this is if they don't like anyone at their pick, but I think that's pretty unlikely.

That's all understandable and fair.

From a Blues perspective, Hofer would HURT to part with. Are you seeing the season he's having and how strong his puckhandling skills are? Blues fans will tell you, the goaltending has been the team's strong point and the reason they are in 16 and not right with Montreal at 5-7 range. We would part with Hofer in only a deal that got us "something we need"

I'm hearing Montreal has the deepest pool in the league but it is missing high end offense prospects. Blues are the mirror image, have Lindstein who had a fantastic WJC and looks strong but otherwise could use at least one more high end defenseman.

Bolduc being offered up in this context for a Montreal young defenseman prospect is not "hey we're sour on Bolduc here ya go" it's balancing the prospect pool a bit, one team's unbalance for another. It is definitely not motivated by him being French Canadian although I am aware that people do that. I am offering him because he's NHL-able right now and because we have Neighbours who is a true identity cornerstone player for the Blues who they cannot move, plus other near term forward reinforcements from other recent first rounders (Snuggerud, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Dean) plus some damn good looking mid round picks (Pekarcik and Stancl). It's moving from a strength. You have to pay to play and I know that, so I want to clarify this is how I'm paying.

 

[PocketNines]

What player in draft are you looking at getting?

As a ducks fan I’d consider moving down if we end up 4 or 5 and Dickinson and levshunov are off the board…. But blues pick prob too far down.

Also the value in original post wouldn’t get it done imo

Yeah there are 4 or 5 guys I think we'd be interested in, so even if those two are off the board we'd be interested, but we don't need to pay a super premium to move that high. Honestly wish MTL's pick was 10 or 11 then I think it might have worked. Maybe one of the teams around there will take it. Montreal could very easily make a (shrewd, fantastically correct, let's say) pick with their pick who would have been available even a few spots later based on what I have noticed in recent drafts

 

[Chose]

That's all understandable and fair.

From a Blues perspective, Hofer would HURT to part with. Are you seeing the season he's having and how strong his puckhandling skills are? Blues fans will tell you, the goaltending has been the team's strong point and the reason they are in 16 and not right with Montreal at 5-7 range. We would part with Hofer in only a deal that got us "something we need"

I'm hearing Montreal has the deepest pool in the league but it is missing high end offense prospects. Blues are the mirror image, have Lindstein who had a fantastic WJC and looks strong but otherwise could use at least one more high end defenseman.

Bolduc being offered up in this context for a Montreal young defenseman prospect is not "hey we're sour on Bolduc here ya go" it's balancing the prospect pool a bit, one team's unbalance for another. It is definitely not motivated by him being French Canadian although I am aware that people do that. I am offering him because he's NHL-able right now and because we have Neighbours who is a true identity cornerstone player for the Blues who they cannot move, plus other near term forward reinforcements from other recent first rounders (Snuggerud, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Dean) plus some damn good looking mid round picks (Pecarcik and Stancl). It's moving from a strength. You have to pay to play and I know that, so I want to clarify this is how I'm paying.

Montreal fixed their goalie problem last draft by drafting 3 of them, one in early 3rd round that has elite potential. They also have Montembeault & Primeau that are somewhat young NHL goalies. So it is nothing agains't Hofer.

Guhle is already playing top pairing and is growing into a real one, ahead of his development (expected for someone drafted at 16).
D has more value than a winger.
So I am with the other posters, addition of smaller parts will not get you Guhle from the Habs.

He was included in proposals to get a young established winger like Zegras.

Yeah there are 4 or 5 guys I think we'd be interested in, so even if those two are off the board we'd be interested, but we don't need to pay a super premium to move that high. Honestly wish MTL's pick was 10 or 11 then I think it might have worked. Maybe one of the teams around there will take it. Montreal could very easily make a (shrewd, fantastically correct, let's say) pick with their pick who would have been available even a few spots later based on what I have noticed in recent drafts

Montreal is wishing for Demidov/Lindstrom to be available.
Don't expect a strange pick from this administration.

 

[pth2]

Don't expect a strange pick from this administration.

That's a strange thing to say. Both high 1st rounders current management made weren't what most fans expected. Wright seemed the likely pick in 2022, and Michkov or trading down seemed the most likely outcomes at the 2023 draft. The Romanov-13OA-Dach pick wasn't exactly an orthodox series of deals, either.

 

[Chose]

That's a strange thing to say. Both high 1st rounders current management made weren't what most fans expected. Wright seemed the likely pick in 2022, and Michkov or trading down seemed the most likely outcomes at the 2023 draft. The Romanov-13OA-Dach pick wasn't exactly an orthodox series of deals, either.

I mean, can you blame them now for choosing Slaf over Wright ? (Slaf was always my choice. Natural fit with Suzuki & Caufield and such a monster physically) What fans are expecting does not always translate to the best pick being made. Considering the context, most fans knew there was a real possibility that the habs were to pass on Michkov too. Reinbacher was the best D of the draft, RH too, and it was an organisation need. Romanov/Dach doesn't have much to do with a player being picked.

 

[PocketNines]

Montreal fixed their goalie problem last draft by drafting 3 of them, one in early 3rd round that has elite potential. They also have Montembeault & Primeau that are somewhat young NHL goalies. So it is nothing agains't Hofer.

Guhle is already playing top pairing and is growing into a real one, ahead of his development (expected for someone drafted at 16).
D has more value than a winger.
So I am with the other posters, addition of smaller parts will not get you Guhle from the Habs.

He was included in proposals to get a young established winger like Zegras.


Montreal is wishing for Demidov/Lindstrom to be available.
Don't expect a strange pick from this administration.

I can fully acknowledge Guhle's value and I was in the vanguard of the AYFKM reaction to Armstrong letting a #1 HOF defenseman in his prime walk over him wanting NMC and being treated like the prize he had earned being considered. In all honesty our equivalent forward is Neighbours, his brief junior teammate, draft classmate and good friend. He'd have to be in a Guhle package. He is a very special player, Neighbours.

Let Guhle and Neighbours alone. Is there another high end defensive prospect who would be available out of Montreal's system?

 

[Chose]

I can fully acknowledge Guhle's value and I was in the vanguard of the AYFKM reaction to Armstrong letting a #1 HOF defenseman in his prime walk over him wanting NMC and being treated like the prize he had earned being considered. In all honesty our equivalent forward is Neighbours, his brief junior teammate, draft classmate and good friend. He'd have to be in a Guhle package. He is a very special player, Neighbours.

Let Guhle and Neighbours alone. Is there another high end defensive prospect who would be available out of Montreal's system?

We will probably keep all of our high end ones (Guhle, Reinbacher, Hutson) to be honest.

Neighbours and Guhle could probably be discussed though.
Closer to what we would be looking for.

 

[CanadienShark]

I'd do it if St Louis jumps in the lottery.

 

[pth2]

I mean, can you blame them now for choosing Slaf over Wright ? (Slaf was always my choice. Natural fit with Suzuki & Caufield and such a monster physically) What fans are expecting does not always translate to the best pick being made. Considering the context, most fans knew there was a real possibility that the habs were to pass on Michkov too. Reinbacher was the best D of the draft, RH too, and it was an organisation need. Romanov/Dach doesn't have much to do with a player being picked.

I'm just saying this management team isn't particularly orthodox. If they are picking 7th they might well reach for a guy most fans imagined going #15.

 

[HuGo Sham]

ASSUMPTION is neither team wins a lottery jump ...

MTL 1st rounder 2024

for

STL 1st rounder 2024
STL 2d rounder 2024
TOR 2d rounder 2024

Edit: clearly could have picked a different top 10-looking team ... for MTL fans who's your top available top pairing potential young defenseman and are things like Zach Bolduc, Blues 1st 2024, Joel Hofer (not all together!) of balancing interest for that player?

Nah. Montreal has 24 picks in the next two drafts including 4 1sts and multiple 2nds. We want that high pick in the top 7 to draft one of the better forwards OR as part of a deal for a young, NHL forward with elite potential.

And Guhle is not available for your first and Bolduc.

 

[HuGo Sham]

clearly I could have picked a different franchise ... but let's say the Blues 1st pick was on the table, and/or Bolduc was on the table ... who would be the best available top pairing potential young defenseman in that system who would be available?

what's so special about bolduc? What's his potential? The young D available this summer imo, from the habs D list is probably: Harris, Barron and maybe Struble.

 

[Chose]

I'm just saying this management team isn't particularly orthodox. If they are picking 7th they might well reach for a guy most fans imagined going #15.

I agree they are not orthodox. but I don't think they will reach that much.
We might be surprised if Demidov & Lindstrom are off the board when they pick, but not that much.

 

[Captain Mountain]

That's all understandable and fair.

From a Blues perspective, Hofer would HURT to part with. Are you seeing the season he's having and how strong his puckhandling skills are? Blues fans will tell you, the goaltending has been the team's strong point and the reason they are in 16 and not right with Montreal at 5-7 range. We would part with Hofer in only a deal that got us "something we need"

I'm hearing Montreal has the deepest pool in the league but it is missing high end offense prospects. Blues are the mirror image, have Lindstein who had a fantastic WJC and looks strong but otherwise could use at least one more high end defenseman.

Bolduc being offered up in this context for a Montreal young defenseman prospect is not "hey we're sour on Bolduc here ya go" it's balancing the prospect pool a bit, one team's unbalance for another. It is definitely not motivated by him being French Canadian although I am aware that people do that. I am offering him because he's NHL-able right now and because we have Neighbours who is a true identity cornerstone player for the Blues who they cannot move, plus other near term forward reinforcements from other recent first rounders (Snuggerud, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Dean) plus some damn good looking mid round picks (Pekarcik and Stancl). It's moving from a strength. You have to pay to play and I know that, so I want to clarify this is how I'm paying.

I'm not saying Hofer isn't having a great season or doesn't have great upside, I'm saying that Montreal's looking to address their goaltending internally right now. They literally just carried 3 goalies all season until the deadline because they refused to lose Primeau on waivers and wanted to keep Montembault. Primeau's game continues to grow and they have a number of interesting goalie prospects (none more than Fowler who is having a fantastic D+1 season). I just don't think its an area that they're all that interested in improving in immediately given that Montreal's goaltending has been fine, while their forward depth hasn't.

And that's fine about St. Louis' prospect pool, but unless we're talking about Snuggerud or Dvorsky type, then its not really addressing Montreal's need for high end offensive prospects. Montreal has good forward prospects like Roy, Beck, Mesar, Farrell, etc. plus under 25 forwards in Suzuki, Caufield, Dach and Newhook. If Montreal's not improving on the quality they have, they wont be interested.

If you want a higher end D prospect/young D, its going to cost someone you think the Blues "cannot move" because you're asking for someone the other team thinks the same about. Bolduc isn't going to cut it for Montreal or another team.

If you're talking about less regarded D prospects/ young D, its confirmed Montreal has those guys available, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're looking for.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Habs have enough picks and depth we need elite talent

 

[TK 421]

Could Habs fans give a scouting report on Jordan Harris, I've heard him mentioned as a guy who could pop loose.

 

[pth2]

Could Habs fans give a scouting report on Jordan Harris, I've heard him mentioned as a guy who could pop loose.

He's ok at everything, not great at anything - he can play both sides, makes some ok passes, is neither dominated nor dominant physically. He's hard to project in that if he improves in any single sphere he could become very good in a specific role, some think he'll end up a journeyman, I wonder though if he might be a good complementary piece for the right partner.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Could Habs fans give a scouting report on Jordan Harris, I've heard him mentioned as a guy who could pop loose.

Two-way D who's not super physical, but he's responsible with puck, willing to block shots, reads the play well and can handle and move the puck. He's already a pretty decent 3rd pair D/ 2nd unit PK guy, the question is if there's more there. Kind of a jack of all trades, master of none.

Fans are kind of split on him, but considering Montreal has Guhle, Xhekaj has a lot more upside, and Hutson in knocking on the door, Harris is definitely expendable if they can address an area of concern.

 

[V13]

It would be counter productive for the Habs to move down imho. If the pick is traded it should be for a young forward with high upside. Moving down for 2x additional 2nd is not enticing at all unless management is high on a sleeper pick they believe would still be available with STL 1st

If things stay put Habs may have a shot at one of Celebrini , Demidov or Lindstrom if they get lucky in the lottery. and that's exactly what the team need in the pipeline

 

[Jamaican Patty]

I don’t see the Habs having interest in Bolduc given they already have Joshua Roy.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Anything based om the 1st round pick from Montreal would have to revolve around Dvorsky otherwise there’s little point of talking a deal. Habs want young high end talent up front, preferably at Center. Otherwise they’re more likely to simply keep the pick and draft one of Lindstrom, Catton or Iginla… or Celebrini if they’re ever lucky enough to win the lottery.

 

[General Fanager]

got it, and I would do that deal

would you consider a different deal ... Guhle for Blues 1st + Bolduc?

the outcome we are trying to achieve is get a very good young defenseman specifically, and we have a bunch of forwards we drafted last year achieving and overachieving. the goal of trading up with Montreal in the OP is specifically to get one of the top available defensemen

He isn't available.....

Could Habs fans give a scouting report on Jordan Harris, I've heard him mentioned as a guy who could pop loose.

Think Brett Kulak....

decent at everything, but not great, plays both sides. nothing flashy at all but quietly gets the job done....

 

[pth2]

Let Guhle and Neighbours alone. Is there another high end defensive prospect who would be available out of Montreal's system?

I've mentioned Barron already - he isn't high-end in terms of value right now, but he is still high-skill, and could have a Petry-type carreer if he finds a way to improve his defensive reads. That being said, he's in a different tier of trade values, that doesn't include high-end prospects, 1st rounders or other prime assets.

 

[pth2]

Anything based om the 1st round pick from Montreal would have to revolve around Dvorsky otherwise there’s little point of talking a deal. Habs want young high end talent up front, preferably at Center. Otherwise they’re more likely to simply keep the pick and draft one of Lindstrom, Catton or Iginla… or Celebrini if they’re ever lucky enough to win the lottery.

I could see Montreal being interested in Dvorsky if the top handful of forward prospects are off the table, and if STL is drooling over some (or even just one) of the available defensemen still available. This wouldn't be popular with either fanbase, though - Habs fans want to use their pick, STL fans have had a year to learn to love Dvorsky and look forward to seeing him in the NHL.