Proposal: MTL & NJ

[calder candidate]

NJ needs a lefty defender with consistent physical defense that is competent with the puck on his stick. Whether that's Matheson I don't know. They have Luke Hughes and don't need a PP guy or really a transition guy as they have Hamilton returning and Nemc on the right side. The two guys at issue are Siegnethaler and Bahl. Neither has been as defensively steady as the team had hoped. In Siegenthaler's case maybe it's injury and he can heal up and bounce back. In Bahl's case maybe it's youth and coaching. We will see.

I don’t care if he would fit on not it doesn’t make any sense to make that offer for MTL and it make even less to refuse it… your are getting a above avg top 4 D in is prime sign for 2 years at less than 2.5M$ and the cost to acquire him is moving back from your pick 11th (a player that might help you in 3 years) to where ever WPG pick which will be like 26 at worst… How much could he fetch if you just turn around and flip him, what would be the cost to move up 5-11 spot like a 2nd…
Matheson strength isn’t the PP, MTL didn’t have anyone else… a top 4 of with Matheson is your #3 would pretty strong he might not be the most physical but he isn’t small and he is more than competent with the puck on is stick. Try to think about Who can you fine that will give better play than Matheson over the next 2 years for less than 2.5M$ and is going to cost less to acquire than moving back in the 1st?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

NJ needs a lefty defender with consistent physical defense that is competent with the puck on his stick. Whether that's Matheson I don't know. They have Luke Hughes and don't need a PP guy or really a transition guy as they have Hamilton returning and Nemc on the right side. The two guys at issue are Siegnethaler and Bahl. Neither has been as defensively steady as the team had hoped. In Siegenthaler's case maybe it's injury and he can heal up and bounce back. In Bahl's case maybe it's youth and coaching. We will see.

Sounds like only Guhle and Xhekaj fit the bill and neither would be traded.

 

[My3Sons]

Sounds like only Guhle and Xhekaj fit the bill and neither would be traded.

That’s fair. Both MTL and Nj are coming off subpar seasons and have more team building to do. Neither should be trading young players or first round picks

 

[Junohockeyfan]

That’s fair. Both MTL and Nj are coming off subpar seasons and have more team building to do. Neither should be trading young players or first round picks

NJ definitely had a subpar season. I think the rebuilding Habs had a season that was pretty much expected.

I agree - both teams should not be trading young players. Both teams should try to dump underperforming high-dollar players (Palat / Gallagher).

 

[pth2]

NJ definitely had a subpar season. I think the rebuilding Habs had a season that was pretty much expected.

I agree - both teams should not be trading young players. Both teams should try to dump underperforming high-dollar players (Palat / Gallagher).

Well, there can be trades to find a better fit, position-wise, but it should be youth for youth, or veterans for similar-aged veterans. If NJ had a young forward who just wasn't finding his spot, and one of the Montreal surplus on D fit with a need, there'd be something to consider.

 

[dgibb10]

Sounds like only Guhle and Xhekaj fit the bill and neither would be traded.

Guhle would be the fit but likely falls above the price range NJD should be targeting and MTL has no reason to move a young core piece.

Xhekaj doesn't particularly fit imo. The major concern there is the unwillingness for MTL to give him even the tiniest bit of work on the Penalty Kill, especially when it's a struggling PK raises more concerns about why he can't crack it at ALL.

The Physicality/Enforcer role would be nice tho, but I think would be better suited to a 12th forward than a dman imo

And so if Xhekaj can't kill penalties, that leaves Siegs, Marino, Nemec, and then either Dougie Hamilton or Luke Hughes. Neither of whom we want killing penalties. I guess alternatively we could play Brendan Smith as a 12F and PK guy like has been done at times this season, but that takes away from line 4 which I'd also like to upgrade. And I see xhekaj as more of 6/7 guy, when NJD should be looking for a 3/4 guy imo to take the load off of siegs and luke.

 

[HabsAddict]

Guhle would be the fit but likely falls above the price range NJD should be targeting and MTL has no reason to move a young core piece.

.

Ghule would cost Mercer. But then, we create a whole to fix a hole.

Ghule is as serious as a heart attack, like Weber use to be.

 

[TBF1972]

Ghule would cost Mercer. But then, we create a whole to fix a hole.

Ghule is as serious as a heart attack, like Weber use to be.

from a devils pov this would be considered. hockey trade of two young nhl players from the same draft. mercer is more experienced. guhle is still on his elc next season.

but in both fan bases there would be people who would absolutely hate that framework.

 

[dgibb10]

Ghule would cost Mercer. But then, we create a whole to fix a hole.

Ghule is as serious as a heart attack, like Weber use to be.

I'd consider a trade around Guhle+ for Mercer, ( I have mercer somewhat higher) but again, likely us also creating a hole to fill a hole.

My Offer would be Guhle+Montembault for Mercer+2nd+Schmid. But again, creates a hole in net for MTL.

 

[Gaud]

No comparison is perfect.

But a comparison between a pair of 22 year old montreal defensively focused 2nd pairing LD with 1 year of ELC left with decent results, likely a higher floor lower ceiling guy is about as good as you can hope for.

Again, I have continually stated I prefer Guhle. Would value him equivalent to a pick in the top 10.

What i gather from your arguments is that you are comparing romanov at 22 (he is currently 24) with Guhle at 22. Also, you seem to suggest that both are 2nd pairing D, but that Guhle has a higher ceiling - would you agree that that ceiling may be a #2 D (first pairing)? Finally, Mtl got #13 OA at the draft for Romanov and a 4th rounder, and with your statement that you prefer Guhle and gauge his worth as even to a top 10 first rounder, would you agree Guhle is worth at least 3 spots and a 4th rounder more than Romanov?

I mean it is not insane to find comparables between the two and Romanov is a good D. Both seem to be the defensive balance their D partner needs (Dobson and Matheson). However, i see Guhle as Romanov+. Guhle is much more versatile, is much harder to play against and the two already have similar numbers, despite Guhle being two years younger.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Matheson with Hamilton would be a great line, probably the first line on D

That would be the worst defensive pairing in hockey lol

 

[Baksfamous112]

from a devils pov this would be considered. hockey trade of two young nhl players from the same draft. mercer is more experienced. guhle is still on his elc next season.

but in both fan bases there would be people who would absolutely hate that framework.

From a value perspective it’s pretty close but from a team need it makes 0 sense, unfortunately.

I'd consider a trade around Guhle+ for Mercer, ( I have mercer somewhat higher) but again, likely us also creating a hole to fill a hole.

My Offer would be Guhle+Montembault for Mercer+2nd+Schmid. But again, creates a hole in net for MTL.

Not only a hole in net but a big, big hole at D as well. Montreal doesn’t really need C either and if they did, they would draft one this year. They need high end wingers but the price can’t be one of Guhle, Reinbacher or Hutson.

My guess is Montreal go for another Newhook/Dach and pay WIN 1st and one of our young NHL D. Main target should be a 22-27 years old RW with either terms, RFA or eligible to sign a new contract come July 1st.

 

[HabsAddict]

I'd consider a trade around Guhle+ for Mercer, ( I have mercer somewhat higher) but again, likely us also creating a hole to fill a hole.

My Offer would be Guhle+Montembault for Mercer+2nd+Schmid. But again, creates a hole in net for MTL.

We are chock-full of defenseman but need another top 6 or two.

Hoping to sign Monahan but also add a young center.

Problem is that you either sign them or draft them. Trading for one just creates a hole.

 

[dgibb10]

What i gather from your arguments is that you are comparing romanov at 22 (he is currently 24) with Guhle at 22. Also, you seem to suggest that both are 2nd pairing D, but that Guhle has a higher ceiling - would you agree that that ceiling may be a #2 D (first pairing)? Finally, Mtl got #13 OA at the draft for Romanov and a 4th rounder, and with your statement that you prefer Guhle and gauge his worth as even to a top 10 first rounder, would you agree Guhle is worth at least 3 spots and a 4th rounder more than Romanov?

I mean it is not insane to find comparables between the two and Romanov is a good D. Both seem to be the defensive balance their D partner needs (Dobson and Matheson). However, i see Guhle as Romanov+. Guhle is much more versatile, is much harder to play against and the two already have similar numbers, despite Guhle being two years younger.

Bingo. You got it pretty much on the money.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I'd consider a trade around Guhle+ for Mercer, ( I have mercer somewhat higher) but again, likely us also creating a hole to fill a hole.

My Offer would be Guhle+Montembault for Mercer+2nd+Schmid. But again, creates a hole in net for MTL.

Ghule is not for sale. If he was it would cost more than Mercer!

 

[dgibb10]

Ghule is not for sale. If he was it would cost more than Mercer!

I am aware Guhle is not for sale, as I have said countless times. We were having a conversation around values.

But a 22 year old with higher draft pedigree, better results, and and at a role Montreal significantly needs.

Considering you traded 13th overall + for a guy who had less CAREER goals than Mercer has in a down year

 

[bud12]

I am aware Guhle is not for sale, as I have said countless times. We were having a conversation around values.

But a 22 year old with higher draft pedigree, better results, and and at a role Montreal significantly needs.

Considering you traded 13th overall + for a guy who had less CAREER goals than Mercer has in a down year

Higher draft pedigree???

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I am aware Guhle is not for sale, as I have said countless times. We were having a conversation around values.

But a 22 year old with higher draft pedigree, better results, and and at a role Montreal significantly needs.

Considering you traded 13th overall + for a guy who had less CAREER goals than Mercer has in a down year

We traded for a potential 2C. Unfortunately he has been injury prone like Jack Hughes. That is irrelevant.

It would take a significant overpayment to entice the haba to trade Guhle. Mercer doesn’t do it. That would set the Habs rebuild back.

 

[dgibb10]

Higher draft pedigree???

For some reason I thought Guhle was picked 26th. I think I had the draft picks mixed up with Mesar. My mistake

 

[Junohockeyfan]

For some reason I thought Guhle was picked 26th. I think I had the draft picks mixed up with Mesar. My mistake

LOL, yup you missed the mark there.

To put things into perspective, Alex Newhook produced more points than Dawson Mercer in 27 less games, playing with scrubs! The Habs gave up a 1st and 2nd for Newhook. And Guhle has far more value than Newhook. Guhle is a far more important player for the Habs future.

Mercer doesn't even come close to netting Guhle.

 

[dgibb10]

LOL, yup you missed the mark there.

To put things into perspective, Alex Newhook produced more points than Dawson Mercer in 27 less games, playing with scrubs! The Habs gave up a 1st and 2nd for Newhook. And Guhle has far more value than Newhook. Guhle is a far more important player for the Habs future.

To put it into perspective:

Newhook had 27 goals and 66 career points when you traded a 1st+2nd for him.
Mercer had 27 goals and 57 points in 22-23 alone.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

To put it into perspective:

Newhook had 27 goals and 66 career points when you traded a 1st+2nd for him.
Mercer had 27 goals and 57 points in 22-23 alone.

And today, Newhook produced more than Mercer in 27 less games. When the Habs traded for Dach and Newhook, they weren't paying for what they produced at the point of the trade. They were paying for the potential of what they will become.

In the case of Newhook, he has become a far more productive player than Mercer this season.

So hells no to Mercer. Guhle is not available.

 

[dgibb10]

And today, Newhook produced more than Mercer in 27 less games. When the Habs traded for Dach and Newhook, they weren't paying for what they produced at the point of the trade. They were paying for the potential of what they will become.

In the case of Newhook, he has become a far more productive player than Mercer this season.

So hells no to Mercer. Guhle is not available.

So what you're saying is 22 year olds are able improve and develop, but only if they play for montreal?

Mercer: clearly only this year matters
Newhook & Dach: we paid for potential

Here's some context. Dawson Mercer has more even strength goals than any Montreal Canadiens player over the last 2 years.

If he was on montreal he'd be getting 4+ minutes a night of PP1 time and you would be DICKRIDING him.

Dawson Mercer's age 19 season:
14 goals even strength, 32 points, (30 primary points)
Juraj Slafkovsky age 19 season:
14 goals even strength, 35 points, (25 primary points)

 

[Junohockeyfan]

So what you're saying is 22 year olds are able improve and develop, but only if they play for montreal?

Mercer: clearly only this year matters
Newhook & Dach: we paid for potential

Here's some context. Dawson Mercer has more even strength goals than any Montreal Canadiens player over the last 2 years.

If he was on montreal he'd be getting 4+ minutes a night of PP1 time and you would be DICKRIDING him.

Dawson Mercer's age 19 season:
14 goals even strength, 32 points, (30 primary points)
Juraj Slafkovsky age 19 season:
14 goals even strength, 35 points, (25 primary points)

Here's a stat. Newhook outproduced Mercer this season in 27 less games! LOL

And Newhook has no where close to the value of Guhle.

Bottom line is Guhle is not available therefore it would take a lot to entice the Habs to trade for him. Mercer is not close to what you would need to offer up. Newhook outplayed him by a mile this year!

No amount of EV points changes the fact that Newhook blew him out of the water this season.

 

[bud12]

So what you're saying is 22 year olds are able improve and develop, but only if they play for montreal?

Mercer: clearly only this year matters
Newhook & Dach: we paid for potential

Here's some context. Dawson Mercer has more even strength goals than any Montreal Canadiens player over the last 2 years.

If he was on montreal he'd be getting 4+ minutes a night of PP1 time and you would be DICKRIDING him.

Dawson Mercer's age 19 season:
14 goals even strength, 32 points, (30 primary points)
Juraj Slafkovsky age 19 season:
14 goals even strength, 35 points, (25 primary points)

This just show that ev stat are directly related to the team you play for. Good team will have better ev stats. Like gaa for goalies. I wouldn't put much stock into it