Morgan Rielly and the Power Play.

[saltming]

Any improvements at this point would be marginal at best. These guys are firing so many pucks over their life and through training that you won't see any monumental changes.

Monumental? No but I do think it will get heavier.

 

[saltming]

He's played 300+ games and it hasn't markedly improved, I'm positive he's been working on it for years and that's what he's managed to get it to, that's not good and expecting a large improvement now seems pretty unlikely to me

I never said his shot was "crap" I called it a muffin, which is fair

Meh it's not heavy but I think muffin is a little light

 

[Kiwi]

Meh it's not heavy but I think muffin is a little light

Come on now Salt

It's a little more than "not heavy", muffin is a perfect description of his shot

 

[saltming]

Come on now Salt

It's a little more than "not heavy", muffin is a perfect description of his shot

I wish I could shot the puck like that muffin!!!!
I would be the king of my shinny league!!

 

[Barilko14]

Come on now Salt

It's a little more than "not heavy", muffin is a perfect description of his shot

So you'd prefer Zaitsev replace him on the PP?

 

[Kiwi]

I wish I could shot the puck like that muffin!!!!
I would be the king of my shinny league!!

So would it, I'm not a professional Hockey player though

So you'd prefer Zaitsev replace him on the PP?

Nah, Rielly does enough good things on the PP to keep him there but I wouldn't mind seeing Zaitsev get some PP time this season, he's playing bloody well right now

 

[zeke]

again, Rielly is our most productive pp dman by a healthy margin.

 

[zeke]

I don't think the things that make Gardiner better than Rielly on the PP are shown with statistics. PP goal against the Rangers.

that's a statistic.

 

[jrgtml67]

That is hilarious..Rielly has a soft shot? I seem to recall Babcock saying last season he has the hardest shot of the d-men, and they want him shooting more. The issue has been (so far) his shots are missing the net big time, or they are being blocked. That can be said for many of our d right now. Gardiners are being blocked, Rosen may be the worse for this. Zaitsev is really the only one getting them through consistently, and Borgman is pretty good too. I remember that bomb he blew by Schneider but it dented the post. Hit the thing so hard and flush the puck died when it hit it.

TBH our PP problem is very easy to see. There are 2 main issues. One is zone entry; teams know we drop to Nylander, though sometimes Nylander gets in, when he does not we go offside, or the dump is terrible the other team fires it out. Two is puck movement. Far too slow. Teams know we are looking for that cross seam from Nylander and the cross crease from the Marner unit. Those plays work very well BUT the puck has to move faster in the sense of "bing, bang, boom." Right now it is more like "bing 1,2,3,4, bang 1,2,3, and picked off." You watch other teams do that well, Tampa with Stammer, Washington especially so far with Ovi. You have to absolutely move that puck around quick, the quickness gives you the space when the other team comes out to challenge they get caught too far to the point, then across for the boom, which is now wide open. In saying that, what would also give us room for that play is the threat of a point shot. Establish that early *even 5on5, a couple good point blasts, now the opposition has to respect that shot, so they come out to take it away, then you move it to the side quick, cross seam, shoot. That or they need to figure out something else. But it worked so well last year, I think our guys are simply trying too hard to make the perfect play, instead of taking what is there, and again that shot from the point early will open that up. Of course what happens if they do not respect that shot is take it, don't force the cute bing bang boom play, fire it ON NET. They start doing that and the PP will be like last season.

 

[Duke Silver]

Interesting.
It woud interesting if this was looked into further. Why does Rielly have the best PP/60? I mean lets be honest his shot is underwhelming. I would say of all the 3 Gardiner has the best combination of shot and ability to make plays. Is Rielly such a effective PP/60 because he's such an elite skater and can effectively gain zone entry whenever he wants? He gets the puck into the O zone so quick and effectively/often that he gives so much additional zone time for our offense. The 2nd unit does alot more dropping the puck back and entering the zone with a Nylander burst or pass to Matthews going down the wing.

The one problem I have with Rielly as the guy on the #1 group is when teams start to heavily scout our PP.
When you have a blueliner on the PP who really isnt a threat to shoot, The opposing teams box can collapse down and take away room for the skilled players to make plays. Kind of similar to basketball in the halfcourt when theres one player who cant shoot and they just sag down and clog the scoring area. You want your PP to be as optimal as possible and not sure if having someone whos pretty limited shot wise is the best thing. It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out the entire season and if the PP stays elite or hovers in the middle.

Well there's a big difference in sample size (PP TOI). But perhaps not enough to launch Gardiner into #1 in that measure.

-------------------

Rielly has the best ability of any of our dmen to get the puck through and generate shots on the PP. It's by that metric that he is far and away ahead of Gardiner and Zaitsev.

I also agree that his shot is underwhelming. But you don't have to overpower the goaltender these days. Just get it toward the net for deflections/rebounds.

As for this stuff about shot accuracy, over the last two years 30% of Rielly's shot attempts (shots + missed shots) missed the net. It's 33% for Gardiner and 40% for Zaitsev.

 

[bunjay]

that's a statistic.

1PP goal as a statistic doesn't tell you that one player got the puck in their own zone, faked out 3 penalty killers, and then scored on a great wrister. Which of Rielly's PP points was that impressive? There's no stat for that. Rielly does not have a single noteworthy goal or assist this year, but the raw stats say he's better than Gardiner in that role.

 

[bunjay]

again, Rielly is our most productive pp dman by a healthy margin.

But that statistic is misleading. So far every one of Rielly's PP points this year is mundane.

 

[diceman934]

But that statistic is misleading. So far every one of Rielly's PP points this year is mundane.

Assist are misleading .....wow who knew!

Rielly creates better zone entries as well as keeps the puck in better then any other D man by making good reads hence the assists he gets the puck to open players. The reason why he has the best PPP per 60 is that he is the D man who creates extra chances will his good reads and ability to beat a man down the wall to keep possession for our PP.

 

[zeke]

But that statistic is misleading. So far every one of Rielly's PP points this year is mundane.

there's no style points in hockey.

 

[zeke]

Assist are misleading .....wow who knew!

Rielly creates better zone entries as well as keeps the puck in better then any other D man by making good reads hence the assists he gets the puck to open players. The reason why he has the best PPP per 60 is that he is the D man who creates extra chances will his good reads and ability to beat a man down the wall to keep possession for our PP.

yep, there's no better dman at jumping into the forecheck to keep the play alive, then seamlessly getting back into position.

you keep positive possession alive more often, you'll get more points.

 

[PromisedLand]

Here is the PP1,

1. they gain zone entry
2. Rielly and Marner play pass to each other
3. Rielly shot gets blocked and cleared OR Marner shot gets blocked or clear
4. If the shot goes wide - then bozak or Kadri recover pass it back to Rielly at the point and then Repeat steps 1 to 3

Rielly's shots are either into the crest of the goalie, high and wide or gets blocked. I have never seen Rielly slap pass or shoot for the tip.

Gards and Zaitsev both do that and then some

 

[Nithoniniel]

People are not understanding how our PP is structured if they make a big thing out of the point mans shot. We don't shoot from the blue. Our system is about getting down low, get shots from decent angles, and then attack the net from all sides.

Analytical community has put a lot of content out there about what is effective and what is not on the PP. The big one is of course moving away from two defenders, but another is that team's with great PPs tend to find ways to get chances closer to the net much more regularly. And that's our thing. The high tip, the hashmark shot, the down low play. As such, the primary responsibility for our point man while we're in the zone with control is to read the defense, decide which side to attack from, draw in a player and pass it to whichever wing player has the most space to attack. And Rielly can do that the best, in my opinion.

 

[Cotton]

U aren't seeing things I see, plain and simple. Reilly can not maximize the drop pass play on the PP. His timing is off and he is telegraphing his decisions. Its only a matter of time before that play is picked off. Vs Chicago he had a soft drop pass that was almost picked off. Gardiner on the other hand can read who is cheating and anticipating the drop pass and can scatter the D by improvising.

You realize Rielly is #44 right? It's Jake who gets his drop passes picked off and gives up shorties.

Rielly is the one who drops to his knee to keep the puck in and makes smart passes under pressure.

 

[saltming]

That is hilarious..Rielly has a soft shot? I seem to recall Babcock saying last season he has the hardest shot of the d-men, and they want him shooting more. The issue has been (so far) his shots are missing the net big time, or they are being blocked. That can be said for many of our d right now. Gardiners are being blocked, Rosen may be the worse for this. Zaitsev is really the only one getting them through consistently, and Borgman is pretty good too. I remember that bomb he blew by Schneider but it dented the post. Hit the thing so hard and flush the puck died when it hit it.

TBH our PP problem is very easy to see. There are 2 main issues. One is zone entry; teams know we drop to Nylander, though sometimes Nylander gets in, when he does not we go offside, or the dump is terrible the other team fires it out. Two is puck movement. Far too slow. Teams know we are looking for that cross seam from Nylander and the cross crease from the Marner unit. Those plays work very well BUT the puck has to move faster in the sense of "bing, bang, boom." Right now it is more like "bing 1,2,3,4, bang 1,2,3, and picked off." You watch other teams do that well, Tampa with Stammer, Washington especially so far with Ovi. You have to absolutely move that puck around quick, the quickness gives you the space when the other team comes out to challenge they get caught too far to the point, then across for the boom, which is now wide open. In saying that, what would also give us room for that play is the threat of a point shot. Establish that early *even 5on5, a couple good point blasts, now the opposition has to respect that shot, so they come out to take it away, then you move it to the side quick, cross seam, shoot. That or they need to figure out something else. But it worked so well last year, I think our guys are simply trying too hard to make the perfect play, instead of taking what is there, and again that shot from the point early will open that up. Of course what happens if they do not respect that shot is take it, don't force the cute bing bang boom play, fire it ON NET. They start doing that and the PP will be like last season.

Someone posted earlier that Rielly actually get the puck through and on net more than any of our defensemen

 

[Barilko14]

So would it, I'm not a professional Hockey player though



Nah, Rielly does enough good things on the PP to keep him there but I wouldn't mind seeing Zaitsev get some PP time this season, he's playing bloody well right now

So why whine about his shot for several pages in the Rielly on the PP thread if you are happy with Rielly on the PP?

Bored?

 

[Kiwi]

So why whine about his shot for several pages in the Rielly on the PP thread if you are happy with Rielly on the PP?

Bored?

So having a discussion with Salt about Rielly's shot is "whining" now is it?

I'm glad we've got you in here to police what other posters should discuss in the Reilly on the PP thread, we wouldn't want to get off topic discussing unimportant stuff like Rielly's point shot and it's effectiveness in relation to our PP

If you want to debate me fine, I enjoy getting into it but don't go there with that bored ****, it's completely pointless and antagonistic in a discussion that had had zero of that

 

[RLF]

People are not understanding how our PP is structured if they make a big thing out of the point mans shot. We don't shoot from the blue. Our system is about getting down low, get shots from decent angles, and then attack the net from all sides.

Analytical department has put a lot of content out there about what is effective and what is not on the PP. The big one is of course moving away from two defenders, but another is that team's with great PPs tend to find ways to get chances closer to the net much more regularly. And that's our thing. The high tip, the hashmark shot, the down low play. As such, the primary responsibility for our point man while we're in the zone with control is to read the defense, decide which side to attack from, draw in a player and pass it to whichever wing player has the most space to attack. And Rielly can do that the best, in my opinion.

All true and I agree, but I think the strategy also has something to do with that we don't have a guy with an absolute bomb from the point. Gardner can score from there on the PP and has, but it's not like he has a shot like Weber for instance. If we had that guy, I think we would utilize it.

 

[Barilko14]

So having a discussion with Salt about Rielly's shot is "whining" now is it?

I'm glad we've got you in here to police what other posters should discuss in the Reilly on the PP thread, we wouldn't want to get off topic discussing unimportant stuff like Rielly's point shot and it's effectiveness in relation to our PP

If you want to debate me fine, I enjoy getting into it but don't go there with that bored ****, it's completely pointless and antagonistic in a discussion that had had zero of that

Bored comment probably crossed the line. It just seemed odd to me to harp on his shot in several posts, to the point of saying it's useless even if it does get through, but you're fine with him as our best PP2 option.

 

[Brobust]

People are not understanding how our PP is structured if they make a big thing out of the point mans shot. We don't shoot from the blue. Our system is about getting down low, get shots from decent angles, and then attack the net from all sides.

Analytical department has put a lot of content out there about what is effective and what is not on the PP. The big one is of course moving away from two defenders, but another is that team's with great PPs tend to find ways to get chances closer to the net much more regularly. And that's our thing. The high tip, the hashmark shot, the down low play. As such, the primary responsibility for our point man while we're in the zone with control is to read the defense, decide which side to attack from, draw in a player and pass it to whichever wing player has the most space to attack. And Rielly can do that the best, in my opinion.

Tyler Dellow wrote something about how San Jose killed their PP last season by allowing Brent Burns to take too many point shots. The slap shot is a really ineffective play nowadays.

 

[zeke]

Tyler Dellow wrote something about how San Jose killed their PP last season by allowing Brent Burns to take too many point shots. The slap shot is a really ineffective play nowadays.

the best part is that whenever we had guys with big point shots (mccabe, dion), fans would do nothing but whine about how often they missed the net.

(even though they missed the net less than the other big point shots in the league.)