Speculation: More Moves Coming?

VirginiaMtlExpat

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The last time Petry was disgruntled there were actual COVID restrictions, and Hughes still asked for patience and Jeff cooperatred and even played a lot better after Marty came in.

Jeff also told Enhgels that if Kent did not move him right away, he would come and play and wait for the trade when it happens.

Doesn't mean the kids would come too.
What Jeff tells Engels and what Jeff tells Hughes can easily be two different things.

Anyhow, I view it as a sterile exercise to analyze (or micromanage) every trade in a bean-counting manner. What matters to me is the miracle that Hughes wrought to offload the Hoffman boat anchor and actually get something in return. As well as the wider trend of getting rid of heavy contracts, including Weber's, and exchanging virtually unmovable players for tradeable ones.
 

WeThreeKings

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What Jeff tells Engels and what Jeff tells Hughes can easily be two different things.

Anyhow, I view it as a sterile exercise to analyze (or micromanage) every trade in a bean-counting manner. What matters to me is the miracle that Hughes wrought to offload the Hoffman boat anchor and actually get something in return. As well as the wider trend of getting rid of heavy contracts, including Weber's, and exchanging virtually unmovable players for tradeable ones.

The balance of everything involving Petry came out as a massive win for Petry.

Not going to be mad we didn't hurt someone's home life with a bunch of young children to try to add -another- 2nd round pick and signal to the entire hockey world, that we think of you as an asset only and not a person.

Hughes' insight as an agent knows how long those gestures go.
 

Boss Man Hughes

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HuGo would only keep Petry if they thought that they had a chance to make the playoffs. If not there is no point making a Barron, Harris or Xhekaj spend more time in the minors.
If they wanted to keep him AND he was willing to return they would have made the cap work.
Keeping to trade at the deadline is only worthwhile if they could get a 1st or equivalent asset which is highly unlikley.
 
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Boss Man Hughes

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The balance of everything involving Petry came out as a massive win for Petry.

Not going to be mad we didn't hurt someone's home life with a bunch of young children to try to add -another- 2nd round pick and signal to the entire hockey world, that we think of you as an asset only and not a person.

Hughes' insight as an agent knows how long those gestures go.
Exactly. Having a former agent on the management team means they know how agents think and how far a good gesture goes. Hughes would know how much it would mean to him and the others in his agency. He likely probably talked to other other agents while he was managing players and knows how most of them and most players look at things.
 
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BaseballCoach

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What Jeff tells Engels and what Jeff tells Hughes can easily be two different things.

Anyhow, I view it as a sterile exercise to analyze (or micromanage) every trade in a bean-counting manner. What matters to me is the miracle that Hughes wrought to offload the Hoffman boat anchor and actually get something in return. As well as the wider trend of getting rid of heavy contracts, including Weber's, and exchanging virtually unmovable players for tradeable ones.
I'm sorry but if the idea is that we don't need cap space next year, we don't need it this year much either. So moving Hoffman loses its punch if we had to take on a new $2.3M for next year as a result.

Then on top of it, there appear to be promises to three goaltenders that all are safe from demotion and possibly trade as well.

How much are players going to want to play here if we get offered a good deal for Allen but Hughes turns it down because he promised Jake that there would be no changes in his life? Even if he can't beat .891 in SVP. The best thing for us longer-term is if Primeau comes into camp and blows people away. What sense would it make THEN to have promised the vets that they won't be moved or demoted? Should we lose a 24 year old rising keeper when rebuilding? Makes no sense.

Again I'm sorry, but I feel that the drive to improve the team seems to be stalling amidst all the Kumbaya.
 
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Whalers Fan

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I'm sorry but if the idea is that we don't need cap space next year, we don't need it this year much either. So moving Hoffman loses its punch if we had to take on a new $2.3M for next year as a result.
Hoffman wasn't moved for salary cap reasons. He was moved to open up a roster spot for one of the young forwards who may have a future with the team. Hoffman had no future in Montreal.
 

Scintillating10

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Doing so would kill our cap space for the entire year. On top of that we don't actually have the cap hits to maximize his contract. We'd have to take on a dump. But, we don't have the roster space or contract space to take on a Monahan type contract this year. We already have too many players.

Hughes is definitely making the right decision here.
How can we take on Pearson contract and stay under cap until Price is LTIR
 

Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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Where we stand so far...

Pearson (3.25m UFA) > Hoffman (4.5m UFA)

Lindstrom (960k RFA) > Pitlick (1.1m UFA)

2nd, 3rd, 4th, Legare >> 2yrs of 2.3m dead cap

Upgraded roster while "buying" 3 picks & a prospect with cap room we are well situated to spend on futures.

Gotta love it.
 
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CHfan1

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How can we take on Pearson contract and stay under cap until Price is LTIR

I posted this in the other thread:

There are multiple ways the Habs can get under the Cap before putting Price on LTIR, below is one of those ways (and probably a way they won’t lose any players).

Currently they are over the Cap by $6,177,916 million with 27 players (as per capfriendly).

They could:

Send Armia to Laval - saving $1,150,000
Send Pearson to Laval - saving $1,150,000
Send Reinbacher to Laval or Europe - saving $950,00
Send Wideman to Laval - saving $762,500

They can then do two paper transactions (both players below are waiver exempt):

Harris to Laval - saving $1,150,000
RHP to Laval - saving $1,100,000

This puts them $84,548 below the cap. They could then put Price on LTIR and bring Harris and RHP back up. If Dvorak is still injured they could bring Pearson or Armia back up.
 

Miller Time

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I posted this in the other thread:

There are multiple ways the Habs can get under the Cap before putting Price on LTIR, below is one of those ways (and probably a way they won’t lose any players).

Currently they are over the Cap by $6,177,916 million with 27 players (as per capfriendly).

They could:

Send Armia to Laval - saving $1,150,000
Send Pearson to Laval - saving $1,150,000
Send Reinbacher to Laval or Europe - saving $950,00
Send Wideman to Laval - saving $762,500

They can then do two paper transactions:

Harris to Laval - saving $1,150,000
RHP to Laval - saving $1,100,000

This puts them $84,548 below the cap. They could then put Price on LTIR and bring Harris and RHP back up. If Dvorak is still injured they could bring Pearson or Armia back up.

Imagine they do this and both Armia and Pearson get picked up on waivers :party:
 

BaseballCoach

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I posted this in the other thread:

There are multiple ways the Habs can get under the Cap before putting Price on LTIR, below is one of those ways (and probably a way they won’t lose any players).

Currently they are over the Cap by $6,177,916 million with 27 players (as per capfriendly).

They could:

Send Armia to Laval - saving $1,150,000
Send Pearson to Laval - saving $1,150,000
Send Reinbacher to Laval or Europe - saving $950,00
Send Wideman to Laval - saving $762,500

They can then do two paper transactions (both players below are waiver exempt):

Harris to Laval - saving $1,150,000
RHP to Laval - saving $1,100,000

This puts them $84,548 below the cap. They could then put Price on LTIR and bring Harris and RHP back up. If Dvorak is still injured they could bring Pearson or Armia back up.
Sure, if they are willing to waive Armia or Evans or Allen or Pearson or anyone else with a salary over $1.150M. However, last week we were told these moves were off the table.

Hoffman wasn't moved for salary cap reasons. He was moved to open up a roster spot for one of the young forwards who may have a future with the team. Hoffman had no future in Montreal.
This whole thing is nuts.

We moved Hoffman out and got a 2/3D and a goalie with a lifetime .912 SVP then gave them both away AND took on salary AND used a retention slot for 2 years.
 
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Miller Time

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Sure, if they are willing to waive Armia or Evans or Allen or Pearson or anyone else with a salary over $1.150M.n however, lst week we were told these moves were off the table.


This whole thing is nuts.

We moved Hoffman out and got a 2/3D and a goalie with a lifetime .912 SVP then gave them both away AND took on salary AND used a retention slot for 2 years.

You do realize that this isn't a video game?
 
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calder candidate

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Sure, if they are willing to waive Armia or Evans or Allen or Pearson or anyone else with a salary over $1.150M.n however, lst week we were told these moves were off the table.


This whole thing is nuts.

We moved Hoffman out and got a 2/3D and a goalie with a lifetime .912 SVP then gave them both away AND took on salary AND used a retention slot for 2 years.
I agree the return for Petry and DeSmith was underwhelming the cap situation isn’t better but we are probably just over 1M$ (Hoff/Pitlick vs. Petry, Pearson, Lidstrom)but we bought a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th with that cap space. As long as KH find a way to by cap compliant and have Price contract on LTIR to accrue cap space for the TDL there isn’t any issues.
 

BaseballCoach

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I agree the return for Petry and DeSmith was underwhelming the cap situation isn’t better but we are probably just over 1M$ (Hoff/Pitlick vs. Petry, Pearson, Lidstrom)but we bought a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th with that cap space. As long as KH find a way to by cap compliant and have Price contract on LTIR to accrue cap space for the TDL there isn’t any issues.
Then he has to be willing to waive Allen, Pearson, Armia, Evans or some other vet. Personally, that would be fine with me, but will he do it? Many here say he won't, in order to protect the chemistry of this terrible team, rather than be willing to shake it up.
 

RationalExpectations

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Then he has to be willing to waive Allen, Pearson, Armia, Evans or some other vet. Personally, that would be fine with me, but will he do it? Many here say he won't, in order to protect the chemistry of this terrible team, rather than be willing to shake it up.
Well if you save the chemistry, the reward may well be Celebrini, so... ;)
 

ReHabs

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Then he has to be willing to waive Allen, Pearson, Armia, Evans or some other vet. Personally, that would be fine with me, but will he do it? Many here say he won't, in order to protect the chemistry of this terrible team, rather than be willing to shake it up.
It’s very amusing the Hughes Homers at the same time say that Hughes should and will waive and demote veteran Habs players but also Hughes was compelled to acquire Petry and then out of the goodness of his heart was compelled to trade him away for peanuts in an awful deal.
 
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BehindTheTimes

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I agree the return for Petry and DeSmith was underwhelming the cap situation isn’t better but we are probably just over 1M$ (Hoff/Pitlick vs. Petry, Pearson, Lidstrom)but we bought a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th with that cap space. As long as KH find a way to by cap compliant and have Price contract on LTIR to accrue cap space for the TDL there isn’t any issues.
I don’t think the DeSmith trade is underwhelming, he’s essentially valueless, so we bought a 3rd for taking Pearson and dumping DeSmith to lessen the burden of acquiring Pearson. Outstanding asset management here.

The Petry trade he shit the bed.
 
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BehindTheTimes

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It’s very amusing the Hughes Homers at the same time say that Hughes should and will waive and demote veteran Habs players but also Hughes was compelled to acquire Petry and then out of the goodness of his heart was compelled to trade him away for peanuts in an awful deal.
They gotta be getting dizzy from all the spinning.

This is the same group that thought Marc Bergevin was pretty good for an entire decade.?
 
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JianYang

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They gotta be getting dizzy from all the spinning.

This is the same group that thought Marc Bergevin was pretty good for an entire decade.?

No, I can already see one prominent poster on this page that was among the most critical about MB, that is feeling a bit more encouraged about hugo. We can't put everyone in neat little boxes for convenience.

I'm doing a wait and see approach but a poster above makes a good point. Hughes' background as a player agent gives him a pretty credible background to know exactly how far these "good hearted gestures" can go with respect to building an organization's external reputation.

It's an intangible move today, and we will see if any dividends come out of their approach as we move along in this build.
 

ReHabs

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No, I can already see one prominent poster on this page that was among the most critical about MB, that is feeling a bit more encouraged about hugo. We can't put everyone in neat little boxes for convenience.

I'm doing a wait and see approach but a poster above makes a good point. Hughes' background as a player agent gives him a pretty credible background to know exactly how far these "good hearted gestures" can go with respect to building an organization's external reputation.

It's an intangible move today, and we will see if any dividends come out of their approach as we move along in this build.
There aren’t many examples of agents going into GMing directly and succeeding. In typical Habs fashion, the organization thinks it is smarter than everyone else. I would caution against the “he knows what he is doing” line of rationalization. Bergevin was a veteran NHL player and widely known as a good, funny teammate and had positive experience with the successful Blackhawks organization. How did that work out?

Gorton was fired by his former organization. Adam Nicholas was unceremoniously allowed to leave his former organization. Bobrov doesn’t haven’t a particularly good reputation. MSL never coached pro-hockey in his life. We don’t need to pretend they’re all best-in-class in order to feel good about ourselves.

But that’s besides the point. Habs fans in general worship the organization, they (rightfully) have a religious devotion to the CH. What it does is it makes partisans and zealots out of fans.

You can be an anti-[former GM] partisan and then find yourself pro-[current GM] out of sheer desperation to feel good and positive about the team you worship. I’ve noticed this big time from my time on Twitter. Conversely, some big time Bergevin equivocators who attacked others as Subbanistas and caused so much trouble within the Habs commentary space have been cautious about the post-Bergevin Habs.

So you’re right that fans don’t fit in neat boxes but in general everybody here loves the Habs so damn much that it borders on fanatical and irrational. For example, I think it is lunacy to so openly want Shane Wright and Matvei Michkov’s demise and failure but that hasn’t stopped many commentators (and those in the media too, from Grant McCagg and up) from prancing on what they think are the graves of those teenager’s careers.

What matters most is Hughes demonstrating he knows how to build a relevant team. So far he hasn’t added the players to improve the roster — so, imo, the jury’s out. Not good but not bad, TBD.
 
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JianYang

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There aren’t many examples of agents going into GMing directly and succeeding. In typical Habs fashion, the organization thinks it is smarter than everyone else. I would caution against the “he knows what he is doing” line of rationalization. Bergevin was a veteran NHL player and widely known as a good, funny teammate and had positive experience with the successful Blackhawks organization. How did that work out?

Gorton was fired by his former organization. Adam Nicholas was unceremoniously allowed to leave his former organization. Bobrov doesn’t haven’t a particularly good reputation. MSL never coached pro-hockey in his life. We don’t need to pretend they’re all best-in-class in order to feel good about ourselves.

But that’s besides the point. Habs fans in general worship the organization, they (rightfully) have a religious devotion to the CH. What it does is it makes partisans and zealots out of fans.

You can be an anti-[former GM] partisan and then find yourself pro-[current GM] out of sheer desperation to feel good and positive about the team you worship. I’ve noticed this big time from my time on Twitter. Conversely, some big time Bergevin equivocators who attacked others as Subbanistas and caused so much trouble within the Habs commentary space have been cautious about the post-Bergevin Habs.

So you’re right that fans don’t fit in neat boxes but in general everybody here loves the Habs so damn much that it borders on fanatical and irrational. For example, I think it is lunacy to so openly want Shane Wright and Matvei Michkov’s demise and failure but that hasn’t stopped many commentators (and those in the media too, from Grant McCagg and up) from prancing on what they think are the graves of those teenager’s careers.

What matters most is Hughes demonstrating he knows how to build a relevant team. So far he hasn’t added the players to improve the roster — so, imo, the jury’s out. Not good but not bad, TBD.

I don't think anything you are saying is exclusive to any organization. It's closer to the norm with respect to the relationship of fans with pro sports.

Speaking generally... New regime comes in. Commence honeymoon phase. Shit generally doesn't stink. Then, the deeper the tenure goes, the more critical things get, and then it gets to the point where the same regime is considered the dumbest on the planet. It's sensationalized at each phase. I've seen it rinsed and repeated enough times that it's better to keep an even keel at this stage rather than to be overly critical or jumping for joy on a long term project in its infancy.

This regime will come and go. The hope is that before their time comes, they will have at least built something that the fans can enjoy.

As far as player agents joining the GM game, I think it's more of a newer phenomena so not much sample size. Mike Gillis was the first one that comes to my mind and that was only around 15 years ago. He had his fall like most others, but he also had the greatest stretch in Canucks history as far being a contender goes, and their status in the league at the time. He brought some fresh new concepts at the time. One example was the employment of sleep doctors, which I thought was interesting as a west coast team that travels frequently.
 

Scintillating10

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
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Nova Scotia
I posted this in the other thread:

There are multiple ways the Habs can get under the Cap before putting Price on LTIR, below is one of those ways (and probably a way they won’t lose any players).

Currently they are over the Cap by $6,177,916 million with 27 players (as per capfriendly).

They could:

Send Armia to Laval - saving $1,150,000
Send Pearson to Laval - saving $1,150,000
Send Reinbacher to Laval or Europe - saving $950,00
Send Wideman to Laval - saving $762,500

They can then do two paper transactions (both players below are waiver exempt):

Harris to Laval - saving $1,150,000
RHP to Laval - saving $1,100,000

This puts them $84,548 below the cap. They could then put Price on LTIR and bring Harris and RHP back up. If Dvorak is still injured they could bring Pearson or Armia back up.
That's a lot of f...king around for a lousy third round pick. Then he's still going to eat up 3.5m when Carey goes on LTIR. Pearson had a lot of major surgeries. He's not going to be able to fight. So, no help for Wifi there. He's going to take ice time from young player. A lot of negative there for a pick who's never going to make it.
 
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ReHabs

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That's a lot of f...king around for a lousy third round pick. Then he's still going to eat up 3.5m when Carey goes on LTIR. Pearson had a lot of major surgeries. He's not going to be able to fight. So, no help for Wifi there. He's going to take ice time from young player. A lot of negative there for a pick who's never going to make it.
I feel like Pearson will be waived. Pearson wouldn’t mind — more cash in his pocket on his last NHL contract.
 

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