I know it's a business but the culture Hughes is building goes against waiving a good vet. He even said recently that he wouldn't send DeSmith to Laval which tells me no way he will send Allen or Armia down.
Speculation: More Moves Coming?
- Thread starter montreal
- Start date
If Allen is a good vet, then keep him in the NHL. If he is unworthy, either waive him or trade him for nothing or pressbox him if we can afford to once we start the season compliiant. I'm sure Allen will not object if it is a paper demotion and then reversed, all to help the club.
BehindTheTimes
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- Jun 24, 2018
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No it was not one trade. No one was lined up to take Petry.
If we never traded Petry later, the original Karlsson 3-way trade would still be valid.
That alone proves it was not all one trade.
Darz
Registered User
Predators Traded • 2021 second round pick (#39-Scott Morrow) • 2021 second round pick (#50-Ville Koivunen) to Hurricanes for • 2021 first round pick (#26-Zachary L'Heureux) on 2021-07-23
Islanders Traded • 2015 second round pick (#33-Mitchell Stephens) • 2015 third round pick (#72-Anthony Cirelli) to Lightning for • 2015 first round pick (#28-Anthony Beauvillier) on 2015-06-26
Blue Jackets Traded • 2015 second round pick (#34-Travis Dermott) • 2015 third round pick (#68-Martins Dzierkals) to Maple Leafs for • 2015 first round pick (#29-Gabriel Carlsson) on 2015-06-26
Islanders Traded • 2014 second round pick (#35-Dominik Masin) • 2014 second round pick (#57-Johnathan MacLeod) to Lightning for • 2014 first round pick (#28-Joshua Ho-Sang) on 2014-06-27
Only one trade in the last 8 years and all 1st's traded were so late they might as well have been 2nd round picks. It's hard to get a 1st round pick unless you have a good player to move to a contender at the trade deadline.
Armia will just be taking a roster spot. Again, HuGo found an opportunity to take on Monahan's contract last year by hosing Calgary into giving up a first round pick. Another such occasion presented itself this year. Karlsson's horrible contract forced teams to make sacrifices. The Habs are a clear winner by picking up assets for worthless players. HuGo must be working up the phones extensively to find a new home for Armia, DeSmith and Wideman. Allen will be a backup to Montambeault and Primeau is likely being shopped around as well. Hopefully, HuGo finds a way to accumulate more assets by sending Armia, Allen, DeSmith and Wideman away. Dvorak, Anderson and Savard are the next ones to follow but not in the foreseeable future. The Gallagher and Price contracts are also handcuffing the Habs.
CHwest
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Love those moveable goal posts, so darn handy.
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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Once again you missed something, but it's no surprise.
Hughes was trying to move Petry even BEFORE the trade was completed.
Hughes' favour to Petry was to trade him as soon as possible. Detroit was likely the most interested team. I can't imagine a team offered Hughes a 2nd for him and Hughes said no, unless the team was on Petry's no trade list.
The sole intention was to take on Petry for assets ( Legare, 2nd) and then trade him away right away.
Seems pretty f***ing straight forward, but I imagine you won't respond, because you can't, just like behindthetimes. Your points have been destroyed, but yet you're still here talking about it, same points that have been destroyed multiple times.
That Hughes planned to trade Petry quickly does NOT mean he had to and that is was "all part of one trade".
It was NOT part of one trade!!!
It was Hughes CHOICE to move Petry even if the deal was bad due to unfortunate timing.
He could have never traded Petry, and PIT would still have EK and MTL would still have been rid of Hoff, and SEA would still have got the PIT 1st, etc.
It is completely clear that this was not all one trade. Check with the league registry office if you must. People can CHOOSE to look at the whole and say we won more than we lost. That is fine. People often even add in the THIRD trade, from July 2022. I do it myself. You may do it too. But they were three trades, not two and not one. I'm not delusional.
Actually, it's many trades. At this year's trade deadline, the Habs got involved in the trade that send Bonino back to the Pens and got SJ's 2024 5th out of it for retaining salary. Also, the Habs already sent Petry to the Pens a year prior for Matheson.
The groundwork was already laid by HuGo for future discussions. The Pens wanted Karlsson, new GM in town, so he wanted to make a big splash. Because of cap restrictions, they relied on HuGo to make it work. So it did. The Pens got rid of guys they just had no intentions of keeping and the Habs also asked for picks. Got a 2nd out of it and Légaré which proves HuGo is a fine negotiator.
I do suspect Petry didn't want to play for the Habs again, ever. So, HuGo took the best deal out there and moved him once again. Also, that NTC proved hard to move him again. You can extend your warmest thoughts to BargainBin for giving that.
Petry was probably on the Habs starting lineup, but he just didn't want to play for Montreal ever again. What other reason would there be for the Habs to re-trade him so hastily? Anyways, that deal isn't really good but considering the Habs got DeSmith, Lindström, a 2025 4th, a 2025 2nd, Légaré for Pitlick, Hoffman and Petry retained @ 75% (25% by the Pens and 50% by the Habs) is good asset management. Not many recent GMs have managed to pull these type of stunts. Also, that first for taking Monahan is the icing on top. Kent is surely changing the game. Lindström is terrible, though. DeSmith might be worth something.
The only thing I don't like about Kent is the fact that he overpays for young guys who are not able to establish themselves, even though they can. Dach pulled it around, but this year will determine if he's consistent. The Hawks have Nazar and the Isles have Romanov. We have forgotten the latter but he's now a top 4D in Long Island. As for Newhook, the Habs paid a hefty price. The Avs might develop Gauthier into something. As for Gulyayev and Fairbrother, the chances are slim they ever reach the NHL.
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Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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There was never any intent to keep Petry long-term(duration of remaining contract) the whole "we will wait until the deadline if needbe" was Hughes trying to seem he wasn't desperate.
Hughes trying to trade someone before he has even re-acquired said player is a MASSIVE indication that Petry wasn't going to be there.
Hughes took a player in Hoffman that management didn't want back, that the fans didn't want back and instead of buying his ass out turned him into a slightly higher cap hit than his buyout to pair with a 2nd, 4th, Legare and likely AHLer Lindstrom.
If the Habs trade a goalie in DeSmith, Allen(but not likely given the tweet that Adam Michaels posted), Montembeault, or Primeau, it's stemming from this one trade to rid themselves of a goalie for an asset and keep their goaltending situation "stable", or as "stable" as a bottom team will have.
Getting Petry with the sole intention of flipping him. I honestly thought Petry would get a 2nd at 50%, but he didn't and when I looked into it saw why he didn't, but saw that's still a solid return once you consider the other facts.
Moves..........to get cap compliant with Price included in the lineup.........
Desmith 1.8M dealt....
2- guys waived and sent to Laval...
We seem to be almost 4M over the cap as of today.....and those two moves would take care of that.
Is it that simple guys?
Then Price gets put on LTIR and they have 10.5M to use throughout the entire year moving forward?
Am I getting this right?
Desmith 1.8M dealt....
2- guys waived and sent to Laval...
We seem to be almost 4M over the cap as of today.....and those two moves would take care of that.
Is it that simple guys?
Then Price gets put on LTIR and they have 10.5M to use throughout the entire year moving forward?
Am I getting this right?
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
If the goal is to have Price on the roster where we place him on LTIR after the season starts, All they need to do is go with a 21 man roster to start the season and guys like Pezzetta, Wideman, DeSmith are put on waivers to AHL. Then we might also send Barron and one of our forwards who are waivers exempt to the AHL. These are temporary moves and players like Barron, Slaf, RHP would know that. In the example below, I am $127k over the cap. I'm sure we could easily go with a 21 or 22 man roster in that case (temporary)
If Dvorak is scheduled to be out more than a month to start the season, then it becomes much easier with him on LTIR before the season starts. Moving him off LTIR (Nov lets say) and Price to LTIR (1 or 2 games into the season) would allow us to accrue cap space like it did with Weber on LTIR before the season and then Price on LTIR after the season two seasons ago.
It was not all one trade but when the Pens trade happened, the plan was to move Petry shortly after. I'm pretty sure Hughes tested the Petry market before making the move. Petry staying with the Habs needs to be dropped. It was just not happening.
Dubas also tried to move Petry in separate deals but he didn't have the cap space to retain but the Habs did. Think about it.
CDN24
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If the goal is to have Price on the roster where we place him on LTIR after the season starts, All they need to do is go with a 21 man roster to start the season and guys like Pezzetta, Wideman, DeSmith are put on waivers to AHL. Then we might also send Barron and one of our forwards who are waivers exempt to the AHL. These are temporary moves and players like Barron, Slaf, RHP would know that. In the example below, I am $127k over the cap. I'm sure we could easily go with a 21 or 22 man roster in that case (temporary)
If Dvorak is scheduled to be out more than a month to start the season, then it becomes much easier with him on LTIR before the season starts. Moving him off LTIR (Nov lets say) and Price to LTIR (1 or 2 games into the season) would allow us to accrue cap space like it did with Weber on LTIR before the season and then Price on LTIR after the season two seasons ago.
It was not all one trade but when the Pens trade happened, the plan was to move Petry shortly after. I'm pretty sure Hughes tested the Petry market before making the move. Petry staying with the Habs needs to be dropped. It was just not happening.
Dubas also tried to move Petry in separate deals but he didn't have the cap space to retain but the Habs did. Think about it.
Having a Cap compliant roster that includes Price on the 1st day of the season is fairly doable as you say. He can find the 4+m he needs by temporarily parking players that don't need to be exposed to waivers in the AHL to be compliant. He then puts Price on LTIR and can use that 10.5M to recall those sent down.
That said you cannot accrue cap space while in LTIR, you can only use the LTIR space you have generated. Nothing accrues and nothing will be available for Bonus overages if you stay in LTIR all year.
The advantage of this strategy is that it allows you to use all of Price's LTIR space. If you have to put him on LTIR before season starts to be compliant then you are only able to use the portion of the 10.5 million that you are using on day 1.
The idea is to be compliant without LTIR day 1 and if not possible, then to be using as much of the LTIR possible on Day 1.
It may have been intended to be a 4 way trade and SJ wouldn't wait any longer for Hughes to deal Petry. Maybe not. BUT there was never any intention to keep Petry. Hughes didn't want him and Petry didn't want to come back. And there was no room on the roster for him. Hughes knew he wouldn't be stuck with Petry because some team would be willing to take him at 2.5 mil.
CHfan1
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- Apr 23, 2012
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Even if DeSmith doesn’t get dealt they can get under the Cap easily.
Right now per capfriendly they are $4,727,916 over.
They could:
Send Reinbacher to Europe ($950,000)
Waive DeSmith ($1,150,000)
Send Barron to Laval ($925,000)
They can do two paper transactions:
RHP to Laval ($1,100,000)
Xhekaj to Laval ($828,333)
This is with Dvorak on IR (not LTIR).
This gets them $225,417 below the Cap.
They can then put Price on LTIR and call RHP and Xhekaj back up.
montreal
Go Habs Go
There's a lot of things they can do if they want to get under the cap and not have to give up any assets to move any bodies. I wonder if they would have to get creative just to get to the season opening day so that they can then put Price on LITR and I assume Dvorak goes on IR as last I heard he was expected to miss a few weeks but that was a while back so we'll have to wait on an update there.
Not saying they would do this but here's one example,
F- 11 (Suz, CC, Monahan, Dach, Anderson, Newhook, Evans, Armia, Gallagher, Pezz, Ylonen)
D- 7 (Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Kova, Harris, Lindstrom, Wideman)
G- Monty, Allen, DeSmith, Price
that would give us about 25K in cap space before the season starts.
Then Price can go on LITR and it's assuming Dovark is on IR, that would then give us over 10.5M in cap space minus whatever moves would follow. That's also assuming that DeSmith can't be moved before the season opener and that they feel once the season starts and they can either take back bad contracts (since we would have plenty of cap space) or retain though I don't think they would do that unless the deal was too good to pass up.
Doesn't really matter.
Let me give you another example. Suppose Hughes felt that there would be a market for Michkov, so that even though he did not really see the kid as fitting our systemk,drafting him as BPA would give us the most and best options going forward.
So he drafts Miochkov and tries in the coming days to trade him to one of the teams reeportedly enamoured with him.... but finds out that the timing is not good just after the draft and it might be best to wait for another time.
In my opinion, it would be a bad move to force an immediate trade at much lower value just because "Michkov was not drafted to be in our long-term plan". And if the much lower value turns out no worse than Reinibacher, it would still be fair to question the trade. Why not wait until someone REALLY wants a potential offensive superstar and THEN move him?
See above. It can be true but still does not justify making a bad deal.
Hughes had a similar situation last year, and had he approached things the same way, prioritizing the wishes of this player over a whole team of players, he would never have picked up Matheson.
Michkov and Petry are not comparable in this case. Petry's salary had to be moved for cap purposes. Michkov won't be a cap problem for 3 years. HuGo would have 3 years to move him.
If the idea is to get as close to the cap as possible, that works.
The problem would be a second injured player.
If there is an additional injury, and we need to add a minimum wage player like Andersson, then eve though we can look to:
paper-demote Harris and hold onto Keeper (saves $375k);
waive Lindstrom if expendable; replace him with Condotta (saves $175k)
paper-demote Guhle and kleep Beaudin (saves $88k)
We do not save enough to add that $775k player such as Andersson or alternatively Maillet.Thereforemk a second injury forces us to waive deSmith. Either he gets claimed and is thus not "buried in the AHL", or he clears but we can bring him back up after placing Price and Dvorak and/or another injured player on LTIR.
So, one injury (Dvorak or other) and we do not need to expose anyone
Two injuries and we have to expose deSmith.
Three injuries and we have to expose deSmith AND Lindstrom.
Four injuries before we need to expose one of Armia/Pezz/Evans/Kova
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montreal
Go Habs Go
They are just paper moves to get to the season opener so Price can go on LITR, that's not the actual roster.
Getting the Habs into Cap Compliance
When he traded Jeff Petry, GM Kent Hughes acknowledged his goal is to start the upcoming season with Carey Price on the season-opening roster, allowing them to use in-season LTIR. They have some wo…
www.habsworld.net
CHfan1
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If they place Price on in season LTIR I don’t believe they would have to put players on waivers in case of injuries. I believe they could use the salary relief pool created by putting him on LTIR for this flexibility. This is how they can recall players after using paper transactions to put them in Laval to get cap compliant and then call them back up immediately on opening day after putting Price on LTIR.
Good thread on LTIR (and below from @mouser in that thread):
(A) LTIR in the regular season requires the team to first be cap complaint, whether that's on day 1 or any other day of the season before exercising LTIR. The amount of relief available to the team is based on the team's Averaged Club Salary at the time of the LTIR. Short and simplified version is the team can replace the LTIRed player's contract even if it would have caused the Averaged Club Salary to go over the Upper Limit.
example: Cap of $81.5m, team has a Averaged Club Salary of $80.9m and places a $2m player on LTIR day 1 of the season. The team can now have a maxed Averaged Club Salary of $81.5m and exceed the Upper Limit by $1.4m, for a total cap of $82.9m.
The LTIR Question Thread
This is probably the most # of teams we've ever seen using LTIR. There are currently 10 teams using LTIR to be cap compliant, and another 5 teams close to the cap with LTIR players. I thought it would be a good idea to try a thread where folks can ask any questions they have of how LTIR works...
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StCaufield
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Is there any rumours or anything going around right now? I haven’t read much on here as there’s lots of sifting but I’m curious
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