WWE: Monday Night Raw part 117: What is an Infinity Scarf?

[Karma]

Would you guys agree with Ziggler on this? Might make for some good discussion

 

[Loosie]

Would you guys agree with Ziggler on this? Might make for some good discussion

Sounds about right.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

ftfy

*cut to a backstage promo where Icicles stabs a jobber in the throat*

 

[Serac]

I actually found this past weeks Raw to be fairly decent
At least in regards to the previous weeks
I'm a sucker for elimination matches I admit

But regardless
It had some nice moments, rather than 3 hours of pure agony

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Unfortunately, he is right. Hulk Hogan couldn't wrestle and, yet, he is the biggest star the industry has ever known.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

How many people have gotten over on pure wrestling skill alone? Benoit? Who else?

You need mic skills and/or charisma.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Would you guys agree with Ziggler on this? Might make for some good discussion

I would say I agree in terms of the mindset that WWE has towards the wrestling. I would disagree with that philosophically. The wrestling is what you're selling to your audience. That's the entire basis of the product. You produce stories to where the payoff is a wrestling match of some variety at a PPV/special. If you don't deliver on those wrestling matches, you have a devalued product overall.

 

[Paris in Flames]

How many people have gotten over on pure wrestling skill alone? Benoit? Who else?

You need mic skills and/or charisma.

Bret Hart? Malenko was fairly over in his feuds with Jericho...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

How many people have gotten over on pure wrestling skill alone? Benoit? Who else?

You need mic skills and/or charisma.

Not even Benoit got over on pure wrestling skill alone. He had a character that he portrayed that fit his personality and style that got over. I don't think the actual wrestling is the most important thing about the business but I also don't think that it's the least important thing about the business because it is a fundamental requirement of the business. Every story ever produced is built around having a wrestling match of some kind on a show where you're trying to get a big pay day. And when I say a wrestling match, I'm talking about any match on the card whether it's a title match, street fight, cage match, or whatever. It's all wrestling. The business is predicated on having something of that nature be the blowoff for a story and the business needs the performers to deliver on something the audience is paying a premium for to give meaning to any story you ever produce. Those stories are obviously just as important and just as much of a fundamental requirement but downplaying the importance of the wrestling is one of the reasons people have been turned off by the WWE product these days.

You can actually see what happens when you have a lack of either in today's era. There is a lot of wrestling talent on the roster but no stories to play up any importance of it yet the PPV's and specials aren't selling as well also because they aren't performing at a level that makes it a must-see. The talent puts on crisp matches often but not entertaining. They have to do something different than what they do on Raw on those specials other than just having a longer match.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

How many people have gotten over on pure wrestling skill alone? Benoit? Who else?

You need mic skills and/or charisma.

I'd also say Ricky Steamboat and RVD. You can argue guys like Goldberg who didn't have mic skills, but got big by never losing.

 

[BonMorrison]

An argument can be made for Bret Hart. He was similar to Benoit on the mic, simple promos to get the point across and to mask poor mic skills. Not tremendously charismatic either (though I thought Benoit's physical charisma was awesome, so intense).

 

[Loosie]

An argument can be made for Bret Hart. He was similar to Benoit on the mic, simple promos to get the point across and to mask poor mic skills. Not tremendously charismatic either (though I thought Benoit's physical charisma was awesome, so intense).

Bret's promos shone when they were 'real' and not something forced. Look at his promos during his feud with his brother. As well as during the 97 Hart Foundation run. Those among his best work.

I've referenced it before but his backstage interview before the cage match against Owen at SummerSlam 1994 is still one of my favorites, unfortunately I can't seem to find it on YouTube.

Anyways he talks about watching his brother grow up and doing chin ups on his crib to see him. But also goes into how he's not proud about having to fight his brother in a cage for the title, but understood that it was necessary.

The Hart Foundation stuff was pretty good too, especially his 'Family Values' one when stopping an Owen/Bulldog match.

 

[BonMorrison]

Oh no doubt, Hart definitely had some great promos. I'm not saying he was a poor mic worker, just inconsistent like Benoit. Benoit could cut a great promo every now and then too.

 

[The Shockmaster]

An argument can be made for Bret Hart. He was similar to Benoit on the mic, simple promos to get the point across and to mask poor mic skills. Not tremendously charismatic either (though I thought Benoit's physical charisma was awesome, so intense).

Oh no doubt, Hart definitely had some great promos. I'm not saying he was a poor mic worker, just inconsistent like Benoit. Benoit could cut a great promo every now and then too.

Hmm...

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Would you guys agree with Ziggler on this? Might make for some good discussion

There is zero doubt about this.

All you have to do is look at Cena. He's come a long way, and has put on some great matches, but his consta-push has nothing to do with in-ring ability.

Exhibit A: The Bella Twins.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Oh no doubt, Hart definitely had some great promos. I'm not saying he was a poor mic worker, just inconsistent like Benoit. Benoit could cut a great promo every now and then too.

Definitely inconsistent.

That said, some of his finest work was as a heel.... especially during the Canada vs. US angle.

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

I can't be the only one that see's he's passive-aggresively saying that the company doesn't give a **** about wrestling and it's all about "entertainment" now.

Right?

 

[BonMorrison]

Hmm...

Dammit.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

I can't be the only one that see's he's passive-aggresively saying that the company doesn't give a **** about wrestling and it's all about "entertainment" now.

Right?

Is MexAmerica the weakest angle in a long, long time.... in an era of weak angles?

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

Is MexAmerica the weakest angle in a long, long time.... in an era of weak angles?

Is it worse than summer being portrayed as a ***** who jumps from guy to guy every month? Literally.

 

[iamjs]

Would you guys agree with Ziggler on this? Might make for some good discussion

he's not wrong

 

[ColePens]

I would throw DB in for guys who got over due to wrestling skills. If he wasn't one of the best wrestlers, he'd never reach wwe to have the opportunity to do what he did.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I would throw DB in for guys who got over due to wrestling skills. If he wasn't one of the best wrestlers, he'd never reach wwe to have the opportunity to do what he did.

Bryan also has a lot of charisma/personality even though he is not a great talker.

 

[bruins309]

Wrestling isn't the LEAST important thing but it's a typical WWE mentality that Dolph espouses. The idea is to draw money and there are lots of different ways to do that.

 

[Sammy225]

How many people have gotten over on pure wrestling skill alone? Benoit? Who else?

You need mic skills and/or charisma.

I would also throw Lance Storm in there but i don't really think he was over over.