darko
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RangerBlues
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With all that ability he should be in triple crown territory and leading the league in multiple offensive categories.
He is not even a gold glove finalist.
He is not even the best hitter on his own team.
His BABIP was extremely low last season. He struck out at a very low rate and walked at a very nigh rate. He's going to be fine and a superstar in the league for years to come.
What are these bad habits you speak of?
No offense, but it's clear you don't know what your talking about. Harper had the highest walk rate in the majors last year at 17.2%....But he needs better plate discipline?
He has one of the best eyes for the K zone in the game. When you see him arguing about the strike zone, he's right almost every time. Reminds me of Barry Bonds' vision of the strike zone.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Also it's just prospects and not cash their giving up so they could also throw money at Chapman to sure up the bullpen as well. Would be almost unfair.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Don't remind me.
Their offense isn't good though.
I don't know why they wouldn't go for a bigger hitter. What about Miguel Cabrera? Sale is good, but they already have a really good rotation.
I read they are also going for McCutchen, but after the season he had, I don't think you can count on him to be one of the best hitters in the majors.
McCutchen won't happen once they deplete the farm for Sale. EE and Bautista aren't options as there's no DH in the NL so I don't really see them upgrading a bat. They couldn't definitely use help but they don't need it especially with that rotation and staff.
Maximus
Registered User
Curious, hypothetically if Mets pitching staff comes back healthy this spring, don't you think a Mets staff of Syndergaard, Harvey,DeGrom, Matz and Wheeler is just as good if not better than than a projected Nats staff even if they acquire Sale? I may be a bit biased seeing I'm a longtime Mets fan but I think we would be as good if not better than the Nats. With Cespedes back in the fold and us likely trading Bruce for some badly needed bullpen help, I have no doubt that with our lineup and pitching, we'd either win the division or at worst win a WC berth...ya think?
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
What were their combined innings pitched?
Sale's ERA would have been lower in the NL too.
Maximus
Registered User
I'm not a huge Sabre metrics guy and I have a working knowledge of FIP but what you just posted seems to indicate that my comment that our pitching staff vs a Nats staff including Sale is that we would be as good if not better than their's is on point...yes?
Only question I have is will Wheeler really be healthy enough to take on a SP role. He did have a couple of hiccups in in his recovery last year as he needed to be shutdown a time or two. So it's not out of the questions a Lugo or a Gsellman who showed they belong, could be the guy. Even with one of them as our 5th starter, I'd still think our pitching staff would lethal enough to compete very favorably with the Nats even if they got Sale who I hope they don't get but you get the point.
darko
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darko
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I wouldn't call it throwing away. Sale is a top-3 pitcher in the game right now and he is under team control for further 3 seasons on a bargain of a contract.
darko
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McCutchen not happening is probably a blessing as he is on a decline.
Nats offense will be counting on bounce back season from Harper and hoping on Trea Turner replicating his 2016 season over 162 games.
Their weakness is bullpen. Lost Melancon and haven't replaced him with anyone. Will probably bid on Chapman.
darko
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Nats with a slight advantage.
I'd take both Sale and Scherzer over any of Mets starters (Syndergaard a notch below because he hasn't shown to handle heavy workload - I expect that to change). However I'd take DeGrom, Harvey and Syndergaard over Strasburg. If matz takes the next step then I'd even call the rotations a wash.
Both clubs are actually built reasonably similar.
Maximus
Registered User
So Darko if you would take Sale and Scherzer over Thor and whoever I said was the Mets #2...DeGrom for arguments sake, the rest of the Mets staff Harvey, Matz and whoever Mets had as a #5(Wheeler,Lugo,Gselllman), it really sounds that you would agree with me that"on paper" the Mets rotation would be more attractive than whatever Nats trotted out there...yes?
The lineups would be very close from my view. I'd be shocked if with the Nats hypothetically acquiring Sale, that the two teams would be separated by more than 3 games or so for the division when all was said and done.
Sure it's very very early to speculate but it's fun to do and like you say, both teams are pretty similar in how they are both built.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
I should add the caveat, if they are healthy. Nationals pitchers had a lot more inning. You can add the health caveat for both teams. All pitchers health is unpredictable. Its the nature of the position.
There can also be an adjustment for Harvey not pitching the whole season injured, just like the Sale to NL adjustment.
The Nationals would have a very good rotation. I'm just not sure I agree they'll finally win the NL because of that rotation. I think they'll win the NL if they can have a season where they get some offense from more than two or three hitters.
Yes, per inning, the Mets pitchers were way more effective.
That tweet I posted doesn't even mention Wheeler, instead it mentions Gsellman. I've mentioned before that Gsellman's stuff up-ticked a lot in the last season. He now throws harder than deGrom and Matz. He has a plus fastball and a plus slider, which Warthen taught him. I read that the pitch was fringe average in AAA, and then pitching guru Warthen has him throwing a plus Warthen Slider after a few months. Gsellman went from a back end SP prospect to top of the rotation in a few months. His stuff got a lot better. Jeff Paternostro had him as the Mets second best prospect after the season, ahead of players like Smith and Szapucki.
If for some reason Wheeler is in the rotation instead, he could also do a good job, but Alderson mentioned they might shift him to the pen.
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Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
I'm just unsure of the approach that you mortgage the future to have a better roster for 5 and 7 game series. Those are usually very close. One or two games usually decides it. They could win 100 games, and then a utility man makes a throwing error that loses them a playoff game that eventually decides the series.
Its the same discussion as the Yandle to the Rangers trade. Yandle was playing 3rd pair LHD minutes. Did the team really need to throw away the future to upgrade 3LHD? It would be one thing to upgrade at another position. The Rangers didn't need more LHD and the Nats don't need another starting pitcher.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
I think there's still upside in the Mets rotation. I'm not so sure you can say that about the Nats'.
JimmyG89
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I think each has big questions about their rotation in terms of health.
Strasburg cannot stay healthy. Harvey has been similar (I think he's over these issues though). Same for Matz and Wheeler
If they get Sale, it'll be a very interesting debate. Outside of health, the biggest question mark to me is if Scherzer will be able to keep up his dominance. He's 32.
Pitchers tend to hit a point in their career around this age where they lose some power and aren't the same. It's happened to everyone, except some specific pitchers. Is he one of those outliers?
All of Washington's other starters are 30 (Gio Gonzalez) and under. This shouldn't be an issue for them.
Same for the Mets, they are all under 28 (Jacob deGrom). This as well should not be an issue.
The Mets had some many players hurt last year that I think the Nats won the division because they were healthier, otherwise the teams were very evenly matched.
Losing Ramos and Melancon are big for them. I know they traded for a catcher, but Ramos put up crazy numbers for them last season.
They also have no closer right now. Unless they swoop in a get Chapman, Kenley, or Holland that'll be a downgrade as well. Will Werth be able to repeat at age 38? Will Purphy have another MVP like season? Harper almost has to bounce back. Will that balance out the other two? I feel like they have more questions than the Mets.
The Mets have no catcher, but that was exactly what they had last season. Anything will likely be an improvement. Almost had no production from 1st base. They got nothing from Wright, and probably should expect that again.
Biggest regression cases are Granderson/Bruce, Cabrera, and Walker (power wise). Can Conforto, Duda/Flores, Lagares/Nimmo make that up? Not sure, but small improvements at C and 1B should counteract some of it.
Strasburg cannot stay healthy. Harvey has been similar (I think he's over these issues though). Same for Matz and Wheeler
If they get Sale, it'll be a very interesting debate. Outside of health, the biggest question mark to me is if Scherzer will be able to keep up his dominance. He's 32.
Pitchers tend to hit a point in their career around this age where they lose some power and aren't the same. It's happened to everyone, except some specific pitchers. Is he one of those outliers?
All of Washington's other starters are 30 (Gio Gonzalez) and under. This shouldn't be an issue for them.
Same for the Mets, they are all under 28 (Jacob deGrom). This as well should not be an issue.
The Mets had some many players hurt last year that I think the Nats won the division because they were healthier, otherwise the teams were very evenly matched.
Losing Ramos and Melancon are big for them. I know they traded for a catcher, but Ramos put up crazy numbers for them last season.
They also have no closer right now. Unless they swoop in a get Chapman, Kenley, or Holland that'll be a downgrade as well. Will Werth be able to repeat at age 38? Will Purphy have another MVP like season? Harper almost has to bounce back. Will that balance out the other two? I feel like they have more questions than the Mets.
The Mets have no catcher, but that was exactly what they had last season. Anything will likely be an improvement. Almost had no production from 1st base. They got nothing from Wright, and probably should expect that again.
Biggest regression cases are Granderson/Bruce, Cabrera, and Walker (power wise). Can Conforto, Duda/Flores, Lagares/Nimmo make that up? Not sure, but small improvements at C and 1B should counteract some of it.
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