Mitch Marner's Ice-Time

[Menzinger]

Lebron has the 3rd most min in the league. Using Crosby's injuries is silly. Kessel has gotten more ice time than Matthews EVERY season since he was traded to the Leafs and hasn't missed a game. The best want, do and should get more TOI.

I'm having the same debate in the Hyman thread. TOI is being distributed evenly because the cap forces a lack of talent. Because our young guys are on entry deals we can afford guys like Marleau and JVR and Bozak. Our top guys should be playing together and getting more ice time.

It should bother you that Kessel gets more ice time than Marner, Nylander, Kadri, Marleau and JVR. But it should drive you insane that Hyman does too.

Not sure i can buy your TOI argument considering the current Leafs team is more skilled than any other Leafs lineup in the last 10+ years yet it’s icetime remains more balanced....

Here’s an NBA centric article in the importance of resting players - teams are really paying attention to this stuff and it’s impacting how they think about player usage. Yeah guys like Lebron (or Crosby in hockey) are going to get tons of usage - but that doesn’t mean it should be the norm for every teams best players (or even for their own health - as mentioned, Crosby has quite the injury history himself),

Basketball: Sports science keeping pace with NBA's increased pace

 

[666]

Not sure i can buy your TOI argument considering the current Leafs team is more skilled than any other Leafs lineup in the last 10+ years yet it’s icetime remains more balanced....

Here’s an NBA centric article in the importance of resting players - teams are really paying attention to this stuff and it’s impacting how they think about player usage. Yeah guys like Lebron (or Crosby in hockey) are going to get tons of usage - but that doesn’t mean it should be the norm for every teams best players (or even for their own health - as mentioned, Crosby has quite the injury history himself),

Basketball: Sports science keeping pace with NBA's increased pace

I appreciate the link and fully understand how science and looking at individuals is changing things. BUT the fact that there are 69 forwards in the league that get more ATOI than Matthews (min 10 GP) and that there are 16o forwards with more ATOI than Marner is very disturbing.

Either all the other teams in the league don't believe in science or our coach has a distorted philosophy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I appreciate the link and fully understand how science and looking at individuals is changing things. BUT the fact that there are 69 forwards in the league that get more ATOI than Matthews (min 10 GP) and that there are 16o forwards with more ATOI than Marner is very disturbing.

Either all the other teams in the league don't believe in science or our coach has a distorted philosophy.

Don't worry, they'll get more ice in the playoffs.

 

[LeafFever]

This is a great stat to illustrate what Marner is doing, shows ice time and points: On par with Eichel, with 400 less minutes played, wow! I still don't think people quite grasp what we have here.

Obviously not. So many want Hanifan instead.

 

[White Shadow]

I appreciate the link and fully understand how science and looking at individuals is changing things. BUT the fact that there are 69 forwards in the league that get more ATOI than Matthews (min 10 GP) and that there are 16o forwards with more ATOI than Marner is very disturbing.

Either all the other teams in the league don't believe in science or our coach has a distorted philosophy.

We were one of the first teams to start using GPS tracking of players to identify muscle discrepancies bio-mechanically.

Not every team can afford the technology.

 

[2legit2quit]

When the leafs were drafting in 2014.

I actually wanted Strome ... Good thing that didn't happen.

And, how is Strome a bust? He's 20 years old, and, lighting up the AHL .. 50 Points in 47 Games. Give him time -- -- too soon to call Strome a bust.

Just some context --- 20 year old Jason Spezza had 50 points in 42 games ... Some players take longer to develop.

 

[Menzinger]

We were one of the first teams to start using GPS tracking of players to identify muscle discrepancies bio-mechanically.

Not every team can afford the technology.

The stuff the Leafs have is crazy - even the Marlies facilities are on par with any NHL club when it comes to player health maintenance

 

[LeafFever]

When the leafs were drafting in 2014.

I actually wanted Strome ... Good thing that didn't happen.

And, how is Strome a bust? He's 20 years old, and, lighting up the AHL .. 50 Points in 47 Games. Give him time -- -- too soon to call Strome a bust.

Just some context --- 20 year old Jason Spezza had 50 points in 42 games ... Some players take longer to develop.

He might not be a bust but imo he'll never be a 1st line C with that skating.

 

[cookie]

Wouldn't it be the opposite that if you play a soft, fast, skilled game that you wouldn't have as many penalties.. Players that play with grit and are physical tend to draw more penalties and take more penalties?.

It's a weird mix of veterans getting the benefit of the doubt, vandettas, crowd pressure, and an insistence on managing games. There was an interesting Oilers fan article that showed that NHL games are quite often called to the wire which in turn over-penalizes saintly play and becomes a buffer to undisciplined play.

The NHL Has An Officiating Problem | The Oilers Rig

Basic thought wrt the Leafs is that an increase in PPs for should increase the PPTOI for our skilled players while being called for more infractions would change our role players' deployment to be more 4v5 heavy.

 

[LeafFever]

The stuff the Leafs have is crazy - even the Marlies facilities are on par with any NHL club when it comes to player health maintenance

And then you see Carlina offering 400K for the GM job. Kyle Dubas makes much more as Gm of the Marlies.

 

[Halla]

So did Stome .

What he did in Jr got him drafted very high but you still have to show it at the NHL level and MM has .

strome had questions surrounding him about whether or not he could produce in the NHL due to foot speed (or lack thereof). I guess you could argue the same with marner about size but its pretty obvious the smaller skilled guy is better suited to the new NHL than the bigger less skilled guy

 

[BlueBaron]

Remember when all our rookies were going to take a step back?

 

[White Shadow]

Remember when all our rookies were going to take a step back?

Zaits and Brown are really the only two that haven't improved on their rookie seasons.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I appreciate the link and fully understand how science and looking at individuals is changing things. BUT the fact that there are 69 forwards in the league that get more ATOI than Matthews (min 10 GP) and that there are 16o forwards with more ATOI than Marner is very disturbing.

Either all the other teams in the league don't believe in science or our coach has a distorted philosophy.

Very disturbing? That's barely noteworthy, and if they received 1 more shift per game there wouldn't be anything to talk about.

 

[43Kadri43]

Wouldn't it be the opposite that if you play a soft, fast, skilled game that you wouldn't have as many penalties.. Players that play with grit and are physical tend to draw more penalties and take more penalties?.

No they don't.

 

[cupcrazyman]

It's really not a bad thing. Do we want guys winning Art Ross trophies, or a Stanley Cup?
Leaf players will be more rested than the opponents in the playoffs. And their usage does go up in the playoffs. So the best players do play more.

I will take a Stanley Cup over any individual success.Just win 1 cup & i will never complain about this team ever again !

 

[Liminality]

When the leafs were drafting in 2014.

I actually wanted Strome ... Good thing that didn't happen.

And, how is Strome a bust? He's 20 years old, and, lighting up the AHL .. 50 Points in 47 Games. Give him time -- -- too soon to call Strome a bust.

Just some context --- 20 year old Jason Spezza had 50 points in 42 games ... Some players take longer to develop.

I think I was actually rooting for Strome too. Was fine with either of Marner, Strome or Hanafin but grabbing that big center was pretty enticing.

I don't think Strome is a bust either but I don't think he'll reach the talent level of Marner and what kind of projection he's on already at his age.

 

[rent free]

When the leafs were drafting in 2014.

I actually wanted Strome ... Good thing that didn't happen.

And, how is Strome a bust? He's 20 years old, and, lighting up the AHL .. 50 Points in 47 Games. Give him time -- -- too soon to call Strome a bust.

Just some context --- 20 year old Jason Spezza had 50 points in 42 games ... Some players take longer to develop.

1. It was 2015
2. it is more important to be able to skate in the NHL now that's it was 16 years ago. Strome is a weak skater.
3. spezza was on a good teams organization so it's harder to be a regular in that case where as strome plays for the last place team in the NHL.

 

[43Kadri43]

When the leafs were drafting in 2014.

I actually wanted Strome ... Good thing that didn't happen.

And, how is Strome a bust? He's 20 years old, and, lighting up the AHL .. 50 Points in 47 Games. Give him time -- -- too soon to call Strome a bust.

Just some context --- 20 year old Jason Spezza had 50 points in 42 games ... Some players take longer to develop.

Spezza had 54 in 43 as a 19 year old (21 in 33 NHL games). He played 78 NHL games as a 20 year old, accumulating 55 points.

Not that I think Strome is a bust, but he's certainly not where Spezza was (in terms of raw production; there's contextual factors that should certainly be accounted for) at the same age.

 

[Menzinger]

Re Strome:

I’m not sure if I’d call him a bust, think he’s got a decent shot at being a 2C.

But definitely doesn’t get taken in a redraft of the top 12-15 guys from that draft year.

 

[BlueBaron]

Zaits and Brown are really the only two that haven't improved on their rookie seasons.

Yup and they sure as hell weren't the ones the trolls were hoping for.