ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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Player Discussion Mitch Marner
- Thread starter stickty111
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notdoneyet
Registered User
Well to be fair they only have a half dozen exhibition games and marner only gets into a couple
Suntouchable13
Registered User
How can you justify giving him a big extension if the Leafs drop this series against Boston? You can't. The core should be over if they lose.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
The Panthers top players came to play. The Leafs top players not so much.
The Panthers best players are willing to muck it up. Ours expect the rest of the team to do the dirty work. Can't win with them. Will never win with them. Blow it up if they cannot beat Boston.
GoonieFace
Registered User
If they can’t win at least 2 rounds, than it’s finally time to dismantle this group. But we all know that’s not happening regardless of the result
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
- Apr 27, 2018
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And if they win, he won't justify his big extension to many here. Heck...even if they advance to 3rd round
Because over a larger sample of games outside of just that partial season, he wasn't pacing for 50 goals. Through the first half of the 90s, for example (which even includes that fluke season), Clark paced for 33.6 goals. That is very different than somebody who has played at X level throughout their recent history and the majority of their career.
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
- Jan 4, 2012
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How ?
We don’t have any significant contract that is tradable.
Also expect Marner to be signed to an untradable contract soon.
The Athletic, indicating that Marners lack of scoring abilities is part of the reason its difficult for Matthews to produce assists, therefore making it challenging for Matthews in the Hart and the Art Ross race:
The better argument for Matthews comes down to support. It’s easier to get assists passing to Brayden Point, Mikko Rantanen and yes, Zach Hyman, than it is to Mitch Marner. It’s also easier getting to play more often with those players. Matthews has only spent 57 percent of his minutes with Marner — his only teammate above 50 percent. MacKinnon and McDavid both spend a lot of time with a stacked five-man unit, while Kucherov always has Point on his side (and usually Victor Hedman too). Couple all that with Toronto’s offensively weak defense corps and Matthews’ degree of difficulty on offense is substantially higher than everyone else’s.
The better argument for Matthews comes down to support. It’s easier to get assists passing to Brayden Point, Mikko Rantanen and yes, Zach Hyman, than it is to Mitch Marner. It’s also easier getting to play more often with those players. Matthews has only spent 57 percent of his minutes with Marner — his only teammate above 50 percent. MacKinnon and McDavid both spend a lot of time with a stacked five-man unit, while Kucherov always has Point on his side (and usually Victor Hedman too). Couple all that with Toronto’s offensively weak defense corps and Matthews’ degree of difficulty on offense is substantially higher than everyone else’s.
Well a slimy move would be to put him with 3rd liners, take away his 1st line powerplay time....in a contract year, he probably would choose trade. Though I don't necessarily think it's slimy, I think the team would be more productive with him in that role.
I could see the next step being a new coach though first. Never know how much Keefe has held back these guys with his "play to your God given talent" mentality. Which I'm sure he's since realized was dumb advice in hindsight.
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
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He will walk. He's UFA.
We get nothing.
The only option to have a tradable Marner contract is for him to SIGN one.
which he won't.
When JT comes off the books AFTER next year, our CAP HELL situation improves alot. JT wasn't the right guy for this core. Dubas wasn't the right GM. Keefe isn't the coach.
It's probably the core's fault. Tre is clear he didn't want to trade Nylander. He's not gutsy enough to hard ball Marner.
Marner has skill, but sticks to the permitter player in the playoffs. Should the Leafs lose to Boston in the first round, I can see the Leafs making changes, starting with him and Tavares.
A 27 year old two time Hart trophy finalist, and center is definitely the right move. I agree, the catastophic move was Shanahan watching Money Ball and going out looking for his Peter Brand. Hiring a rookie gm, who subsequently hired a rookie coach and then the two going out and trying to reinvent hockey together.
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
- Jan 4, 2012
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It wasn't. You dont UFA shop until you know what pieces you need. You don't UFA shop until your CORE is totally locked up.
We don't have a #1D, a goalie you contend with, and our non-core team is a revolving door of people who leave as soon as they can.
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Gary Nylund
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- Oct 10, 2013
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For me it depends on how he plays. What if he doesn't fade away after 4 games are in the books as has been his MO? What if instead, he puts up a goal and an assist in a 3-2 game 7 loss, finishes with 10 points in 7 games along with strong defensive play and is our consensus best player in the playoffs (the way Rielly was last season)? If that happens, I'm not deducting points because the team couldn't get it done and I say welcome back Magic Mitch and I say pay the man.
Again, it depends on how he plays. I'm not deducting points if everyone else plays poorly but I'm not rewarding him for the good play of others either. If we win, he needs to be making a massive contribution to the war effort, one worthy of his massive cap hit.
If we're going to make him Money Mitch, I need to see him be Magic Mitch first.
It wasn't obvious at the time, not to me anyway and not to 99% of the people posting here. But yeah, it wasn't.
Racer88
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- Sep 29, 2020
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I agree with this but we are screwed with Nylanders new contract and most likely the one they are going to give Marner. This will be the legacy of Dubas and Shanny………….a 12 year nightmare. They should have dealt with this 2-3 years ago when they had some kind of control
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
They could not. Both dumb and dumber painted themselves into a corner saying they believed in the core, they bet everything on the core and they will win with core. So far lunacy.
While summarizing my statements is easier to follow, and I don't necessarily disagree with the summaries... I'd advice against it. I think its against board policies. Some people will summarize incorrectly and all hell will break our.
I disagree, an 11 million dollar 27 year center and Hart Trophy finalist is many more times more important than a 11 million dollar small winger, or even a soft, defensive irresponsible winger (Nylander). However Nylander was on a good contract. Most coaches want as many centers on their team as they can get.
Dubas had a gold mine of assets and he squandered them all.
Gary Nylund
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I predicted this at the end of last season. I was certain that Dubas had enough info to make the necessary changes, and rumors were that he was prepared to do so. I was concerned Dubas wouldnt be re-signed and a new GM would come in and want to assess on his own before making drastic moves. Which makes sense. However would lead to this very *&^%type predicament.
Shanahan's timing has been very bad. Gm contracts aligning at critical player contract discussions.
But... this is what happens when a rookie President hires a rookie GM, who hires a rookie Coach. All these guys learning at the expense of us fans and the best roster this Teams had since probably the 60s.
Anybody who starts a new career is going to have lessons learned and growing pains. Shanahan had it right when he hired two of the most experienced guys in the business to offset his inexperience.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
100% but the real problem is that Shanny bought into Dubas' vision that you could win with soft, skilled players. If he had realized that you cannot win with a core as soft as ours, they would have moved off one or both of Marner and Nylander and mixed in players who play a heavier game and are not pleasant to play against. Tre is trying with Bert, Domi, Reaves, Benoit and Ed but the soft 4 remain. Now we wait to see if they can drag the core into battle.
Gary Nylund
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It was after the MTL series that I suggested looking to see what we could get for Marner and I've been taking crap for it from some people ever since. They can't seem to understand that it's nothing personal against Marner, it's that the makeup of the team is questionable and with him coming off a 1st all-star season (followed by poor playoff performance), he was the obvious one to move as he was under contract for 4 more years and thus we'd have undoubtedly gotten a massive return for him and thus be able to remake the roster to be more balanced.
Of course some particularly bright minds labelled me hater, said I want to "get rid of him" as if I wasn't expecting a massive haul in return and here we are years later, married to all these guys with their NMC's, what an absolute shit show this has turned into.
Tavares was not the right fit. Hes not a guy that leads a team and this team needed a guy that commanded the room. You want to spend that money go find a guy that’s won something or led a group to a Stanley Cup. We saw what happened when he left NYI. All of a sudden they’re contending for Cups in back to back years.
$11 mil could have been spent in better ways. Instead of a guy that wasn’t a PPG player and made the playoffs once.
socko
Registered User
Did he have Doug Gilmour? No, he had Peter Zezel. The guy was talented, but injured all the time because he played hockey like it was war. Once he was given a legit center, he showed what he was capable of.
hamzarocks
Registered User
People are moaning about marner, matthews, nylander
Yes they all need to be better come playoffs and yes they all took more than any comparable while not being as good.
Still they are in their primes, have had elite reg seasons and have another 3-4 years where they can be top 3 players for a contending team
The # 1 culprit if we lose will be John Tavares if he doesnt up his game come playoffs.
He provides negative value for his hit, has lowest upside of the big 4, and is past the stage he is a top 5 player on a cup winner.
I wouldnt let Marner walk just to send a message if we lose
If marner plays good r1 and tavares doesnt, you extend marner, suffer another year of JT and then use that 11M capspace wisely to fix issues on the team
Marner needs 8 or 9 pts in this round and needs to avoid small mental mistakes.
Hes a borderline top 5 winger this year and since 2019 is probably only worse than Kuch, Pasta, Rantanen for wingers (same tier as Panarin, Kaprizov,)
The big 3 now that 2 of 3 are locked at huge deals, it doesnt make sense to cut bait with Marner the 2nd best of the 3. Cut bait with the oldest and least valuable player from the 11M + group
Yes they all need to be better come playoffs and yes they all took more than any comparable while not being as good.
Still they are in their primes, have had elite reg seasons and have another 3-4 years where they can be top 3 players for a contending team
The # 1 culprit if we lose will be John Tavares if he doesnt up his game come playoffs.
He provides negative value for his hit, has lowest upside of the big 4, and is past the stage he is a top 5 player on a cup winner.
I wouldnt let Marner walk just to send a message if we lose
If marner plays good r1 and tavares doesnt, you extend marner, suffer another year of JT and then use that 11M capspace wisely to fix issues on the team
Marner needs 8 or 9 pts in this round and needs to avoid small mental mistakes.
Hes a borderline top 5 winger this year and since 2019 is probably only worse than Kuch, Pasta, Rantanen for wingers (same tier as Panarin, Kaprizov,)
The big 3 now that 2 of 3 are locked at huge deals, it doesnt make sense to cut bait with Marner the 2nd best of the 3. Cut bait with the oldest and least valuable player from the 11M + group
