Speculation: Mitch Marner Mega Thread Part 3 (Warning OP)

[lottster14]

Love marner, Very Cool guy. Reminds me of pavel datsyuk in a way, but admittedly less magical.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Marner will take less because he is worth less. He's not a center, he didn't score 40 goals. The only thing that makes Matthews and Marner look close is injuries. Matthews has produced more, with worse line mates every step of the way.

Matthews has scored 111 goals in 212 games, that is an absolutely ridiculous number. He's fifth in goal scoring since he entered the league despite the four above him have played more games. He's one goal below what McDavid and Tavares have produced in 241/242 games. He also plays less minutes on average than the players ahead of him. Matthews is an absolute monster when it comes to scoring goals, the only reason he's not firmly in second place and challenging Ovechkin is because of injuries.

Yes he can score goals but does he set anyone else up for being such a monster? Let's use the word monster loosely here as besides his rookie year the last two years he's not even top ten goal scoring and what was he 40 something in over all points this year? If he's elite how many elite players are there?? Oh by the way Pastrnak and Bergeron played less games this year and were both ahead in points. Mathews is good very good I might add but he's not elite not yet at least.

 

[Drew311]

If Toronto just accepted reality and offered 8 x 11 or 11.5 would not this be done and over with? Playing hardball with an alleged franchise player over this type of money seems unreasonable.

Playing hardball with a role player or even a good player is completely acceptable on the other hand.

If the Bruins has to give contracts out to Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak this summer, would you want Sweeney to give them all 11M? That’s what they are worth to your team, but how many key player would you be losing because of it?

 

[lottster14]

Didn't you say Kapanen was upset Dubas made him priority #2/3? Only to sign days later. People say things all the time.

Kapanen was upset when he took a piece of raw meat from a pile that was ready to be cooked in the BBQ at a party with leafs, marlies and prospects. He thought it was a "Canadian thing" to eat a burger like that. This happened the first year he came to Can

 

[Killer Orcas]

He can request whatever he wants, he's an RFA and has little to no leverage in this situation. If he wants to play in Siberia he can keep arguing that he's worth 11+ despite no single GM seeming to agree with that sentiment.

You are very correct but wouldn't be the best asset management especially over 2 million. You'd think a happy and motivated Marner would be worth alot more playing for Leafs then Siberia. Also remember you take away Marner and Tavares's numbers will take a dip. Not saying he needs him but you have to think they have great chemistry hence Tavares just had his best year at 28.

 

[lottster14]

Didn't Dubas say Marner signing before July the 1st was his priority #1 ????

Yes he also stupidly promised to keep the big 3 (Matthews Marner Nylander) right when he was promoted to he job of GM to please the fans and secure himself. nylander should not be here right now

 

[ITM]

You are very correct but wouldn't be the best asset management especially over 2 million. You'd think a happy and motivated Marner would be worth alot more playing for Leafs then Siberia. Also remember you take away Marner and Tavares's numbers will take a dip. Not saying he needs him but you have to think they have great chemistry hence Tavares just had his best year at 28.

The Tavares needing Marner to produce argument has been well-worn on the Leafs boards. And from it comes the logical conclusion that Marner had his best year playing with Tavares by a substantially larger margin than the other way around.

So let's say the great chemistry shared is a valid negotiating point. Marner is still positioning himself to make more than Tavares.

Will Tavares' numbers dip without Marner?

Without Marner, Tavares has had three seasons over eighty points. Scored 88 with Marner and 84 the year before without Marner.

Optics.

 

[Killer Orcas]

The Tavares needing Marner to produce argument has been well-worn on the Leafs boards. And from it comes the logical conclusion that Marner had his best year playing with Tavares by a substantially larger margin than the other way around.

So let's say the great chemistry shared is a valid negotiating point. Marner is still positioning himself to make more than Tavares.

Will Tavares' numbers dip without Marner?

Without Marner, Tavares has had three seasons over eighty points. Scored 88 with Marner and 84 the year before without Marner.

Optics.

Tavares doesn't need Marner but anyone can see they worked very well together. I see Marner getting better but Tavares is got what another year or two in prime? I'm pretty sure in two seasons Marner will be out producing Tavares by a margin of around 20 points. This is all a guess but Tavares isn't getting better at age 30 in 2 years Marner hasn't even hit prime yet.

 

[Martin Skoula]

You are very correct but wouldn't be the best asset management especially over 2 million. You'd think a happy and motivated Marner would be worth alot more playing for Leafs then Siberia. Also remember you take away Marner and Tavares's numbers will take a dip. Not saying he needs him but you have to think they have great chemistry hence Tavares just had his best year at 28.

Yeah, Marner's downside is losing 3x his lifetime earnings and probably a worse contract when he decides to come back. I think he's more motivated than the Leafs for this to work out.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Yeah, Marner's downside is losing 3x his lifetime earnings and probably a worse contract when he decides to come back. I think he's more motivated than the Leafs for this to work out.

We'll see Dubas blinked the last time with Nylander and well just gave Mathews his deal. I hope it works out for you guys as sad home town kid who fits like a glove on team might not return. Leafs were fun to watch and with Barrie now that PP will be even crazier. Best of luck signing him.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Fellow top Rfa deals for Aho at 8.45 and meier at 6 as comps is definately a positive development for Dubas and Co. Seems ilogical to ask for 3 more million than Aho with a straight face when it's not crystal clear who is the better player. Not intended as a Aho /marner discussion but rather reaffirming my belief that they should be earning at a similar salary tier.

It's also illogical for Matthews to get 3M+ more than Aho, considering Aho is also a center coming off a 83 point season (leading his team in scoring) and an excellent playoff run.

 

[Habs10025]

Facts>Your feelings.

Its not debatable Montreal Canadiens are the greatest franchise in NHL history .

 

[Liferleafer]

We'll see Dubas blinked the last time with Nylander and well just gave Mathews his deal. I hope it works out for you guys as sad home town kid who fits like a glove on team might not return. Leafs were fun to watch and with Barrie now that PP will be even crazier. Best of luck signing him.

Please prove that Dubas blinked. Nylander started at 8.5....how do we know Nylander didn't blink?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

It's also illogical for Matthews to get 3M+ more than Aho, considering Aho is also a center coming off a 83 point season (leading his team in scoring) and an excellent playoff run.

That really has nothing to do with logic, other than potentially Aho's. He literally valued himself at that.

 

[ITM]

Tavares doesn't need Marner but anyone can see they worked very well together. I see Marner getting better but Tavares is got what another year or two in prime? I'm pretty sure in two seasons Marner will be out producing Tavares by a margin of around 20 points. This is all a guess but Tavares isn't getting better at age 30 in 2 years Marner hasn't even hit prime yet.

Noting on one hand that Tavares’ production will take a dip (despite Marnerless comparable seasons) and on the other that Tavares doesn’t need Marner reads an awful lot like grasping at straws - needlessly.

Tavares is going to be good for a while more than two more seasons. Marner will be a fantastic player for the foreseeable future. Hopefully, mutual, supplemental success awaits both of them as Maple Leafs.

 

[KINGS17]

I doubt anyone has missed it but think about this reasonably. Marner is out producing the so called star who just received 11 plus per starting next season for doing less. Why would he take less? Please don't say Mathews is elite he's not. He's a great centre but not even the best on own team. Heck guy has a season high 73 points in 3 years? Where is this so called elite numbers if hes elite? Dubas over paid and Marner wants same now Dubas made his bed now he's stuck with it. Do I think Marner is worth 11.5 no I don't but Dubas started this with Mathews who isn't worth it either. You keep your stars happy so if Leafs need to over pay Marner now by 2 million or so you do it. You maybe lose some depth on 3rd or 4th line but you keep the home town kid happy. I don't see Marner accepting less is it worth losing him over 2 million per??

It's always a good idea when you are running an enterprise with a capped budget to compound one mistake by committing another mistake, right?

Dubas job is to put a team on the ice that can contend for a Stanley Cup. That doesn't necessarily coincide with making Mitch Marner happy.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Yes he can score goals but does he set anyone else up for being such a monster? Let's use the word monster loosely here as besides his rookie year the last two years he's not even top ten goal scoring and what was he 40 something in over all points this year? If he's elite how many elite players are there?? Oh by the way Pastrnak and Bergeron played less games this year and were both ahead in points. Mathews is good very good I might add but he's not elite not yet at least.

He's the second best pure goal scorer in the league, if that's not elite what is? Since you bring up those players, since entering the league Matthews has a higher point per game than both Bergeron and Pastrnak, granted with Pastrnak it's just barely.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Its not debatable Montreal Canadiens are the greatest franchise in NHL history .

Montreal is the most storied franchise, Toronto is the mecca of hockey. Montreal doesn't really care about hockey apart from the Canadians. Toronto has the hall of fame, the most amount of professional players, the most semi professional leagues, it's not even remotely close. The most arena's and so on.

 

[Legion34]

SO who can actually sheet him now? Jersey and Columbus?

 

[Killer Orcas]

He's the second best pure goal scorer in the league, if that's not elite what is? Since you bring up those players, since entering the league Matthews has a higher point per game than both Bergeron and Pastrnak, granted with Pastrnak it's just barely.

I only bring up those players to show even with games missed if he's so elite he should be at least in top 30 points race no they are. Guy scores goals but besides rookie year hasn't hit 40 again in last 2 seasons playing on stacked offensive team. Sorry good player but not even best on own team.

 

[Killer Orcas]

It's always a good idea when you are running an enterprise with a capped budget to compound one mistake by committing another mistake, right?

Dubas job is to put a team on the ice that can contend for a Stanley Cup. That doesn't necessarily coincide with making Mitch Marner happy.

Well your the first to admit Dubas made a mistake so that's a start. Making Marner happy would go a long way though as he is one of the top dofs on your team. Why ruin a good thing over 2 per? He's not the player to make a stand on that's silly unless Leafs really believe he's worth only 8-9 in which even I'd be shocked.

 

[Stephen]

Its not debatable Montreal Canadiens are the greatest franchise in NHL history .

They've been trash for 25 years...

 

[Killer Orcas]

Please prove that Dubas blinked. Nylander started at 8.5....how do we know Nylander didn't blink?

Really? Dubas could have just said sign or sit til next year. Leafs were actually doing very well without Nylander to start year. Can't remember was it Kapanen or Johnson that stepped it up? Dubas did not need to give into Nylander should have been a bridge especially knowing he was gonna sign Mathews and needed to sign Marner the two more important players.

 

[Stephen]

It's also illogical for Matthews to get 3M+ more than Aho, considering Aho is also a center coming off a 83 point season (leading his team in scoring) and an excellent playoff run.

That's more of an Aho issue than a Matthews issue though.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I only bring up those players to show even with games missed if he's so elite he should be at least in top 30 points race no they are. Guy scores goals but besides rookie year hasn't hit 40 again in last 2 seasons playing on stacked offensive team. Sorry good player but not even best on own team.

Matthews was on a blistering pace the last two seasons before injuries set in both times. No one was laughing when he was compared to McDavid early in both seasons. I hope Auston puts together an injury free season this year if only to see if he really is what I think he is (a top 10 player) or if he's just Brian Savage. I'll accept the result either way, I doubt the Leaf haters will.