Minnesota Wild General Discussion IV

[Dr Jan Itor]

Of course. You really think that these guys can't tell from the bench when all they do is get paid to watch these guys from the bench everyday? They can probably tell shift to shift who is struggling and who isn't. And we are supposed to let them off the hook because they couldn't tell for 3-4 months how hurt one of their players was? Or never heard anything thing in the locker room, or heard from another player? In practice, when Coyle could get nothing on his shots for 3-4 months nobody noticed a thing?

Sorry, I call bull****.

We all watch a lot of games here. Where is the "Is there something wrong with Coyle's wrists? He's getting nothing on his shots" thread?

He was hurt, but it obviously wasn't a debilitating injury. He could still shoot and stickhandle, just not at 100%. I don't expect our athletic trainers to eyeball Coyle's wristshot and notice a 7 or 8 or 10 mph downtick due to a nagging injury. It's not like it went from 90 mph to 50 or something like that.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

We all watch a lot of games here. Where is the "Is there something wrong with Coyle's wrists? He's getting nothing on his shots" thread?

He was hurt, but it obviously wasn't a debilitating injury. He could still shoot and stickhandle, just not at 100%. I don't expect our athletic trainers to eyeball Coyle's wristshot and notice a 7 or 8 or 10 mph downtick due to a nagging injury. It's not like it went from 90 mph to 50 or something like that.

Yikes.....do you really need to be spoon fed on this or is it not ok to make some logical connections? They are around these players all the time. Yes, I think they notice when one of their assets is struggling.

 

[Bazeek]

We all watch a lot of games here. Where is the "Is there something wrong with Coyle's wrists? He's getting nothing on his shots" thread?

He was hurt, but it obviously wasn't a debilitating injury. He could still shoot and stickhandle, just not at 100%. I don't expect our athletic trainers to eyeball Coyle's wristshot and notice a 7 or 8 or 10 mph downtick due to a nagging injury. It's not like it went from 90 mph to 50 or something like that.

It's also not like Coyle hasn't gone through slumps that weren't related to any physical injury. Unless the player actually says something's bothering him I'm not sure how coaches or medical staff can impose some sort of evaluation. If they could I assume Ennis would have been subjected to every test known to modern medicine.

 

[DANOZ28]

i agree with double D, a coach or doc would know if a player wasnt 100%. now whether a player would lie just to keep playing or the coach would give them the option to play hurt probably stays "in house".

 

[Dickie Dunn]

In an age of analytics, video,.....dissection of the sport from angles and points of view that didn't seem possible not long ago, it has never occurred to me that a player could hide an INJURY from all eyes watching him everyday. Again, different than HURT. If hurt, his play likely doesn't suffer to the degree it did and none of this is even discussed. But it's interesting to talk about because he absolutely sucked. I think that would have been sifted like sand until they found out why. Maybe I give them too much credit.

 

[Bazeek]

In an age of analytics, video,.....dissection of the sport from angles and points of view that didn't seem possible not long ago, it has never occurred to me that a player could hide an INJURY from all eyes watching him everyday. Again, different than HURT. If hurt, his play likely doesn't suffer to the degree it did and none of this is even discussed. But it's interesting to talk about because he absolutely sucked. I think that would have been sifted like sand until they found out why. Maybe I give them too much credit.

I think it depends on what you mean by "hide" an injury. Apparently his agents noticed something was up since they urged him to shoot more, so I'd assume the coaches were aware something was off. I don't know that they would have concluded that it was an injury, but it does seem reasonable to think that they'd ask him what was up. A lot would depend on how the player answers that question though.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Pain meds is the key. If he was receiving anything for pain then his ability to hide it unravels. But imagine trying to "hide" a sprained ankle. Doesn't seem likely does it. Now tear a tendon in each wrist and go play hockey every day. Think you could hide it? How hard would you have to try? And why would you? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yikes.....do you really need to be spoon fed on this or is it not ok to make some logical connections? They are around these players all the time. Yes, I think they notice when one of their assets is struggling.

I think it's a lot easier to see a guy wobbling around with a head injury or laboring throw a lower body injury, than it is to see if a few mph's ticked off of a of wrist shot.

 

[Bazeek]

Pain meds is the key. If he was receiving anything for pain then his ability to hide it unravels. But imagine trying to "hide" a sprained ankle. Doesn't seem likely does it. Now tear a tendon in each wrist and go play hockey every day. Think you could hide it? How hard would you have to try? And why would you? Makes no sense to me.

I honestly don't know if I could, or if a professional athlete could. Coyle's the guy that went through the playoffs with two separated shoulders though, so I wouldn't necessarily put it past him.

I also wonder how bad the injury and pain were in November/December vs the end of the season.

 

[DANOZ28]

bottom line is even player tweets or athletic articles are not 100% guaranteed accurate. we can only judge results and coyle had a bad year especially when you compare his season to tuch's!

 

[Bazeek]

bottom line is even player tweets or athletic articles are not 100% guaranteed accurate. we can only judge results and coyle had a bad year especially when you compare his season to tuch's!

Fletcher's no longer the GM, so I'm not sure why Tuch is relevant here.

What is relevant is what trades get made this offseason. Coyle's name has probably come up more than anyone's in that context, at least in part because he had a down year. Any injuries he was playing through should be factored into how eager anyone is to see the back of him.

Actually, it'd be pretty ironic to see Coyle fall out of favor because he underperformed relative to guys like Haula and Tuch, see him traded, and then see him bounce back next year in an elevated role on a new team.

 

[TaLoN]

Wasn't Parise being told (and I don't think it was by team doctors) that physical therapy was a valid route to work through the back problems? Honestly I'd probably try the the PT route before surgery as well, especially with my career hinging on it.

Yes, team doctors recommended surgery, outside doctors told him he could rehab through it.

He did not like the risks involved with the surgery so wanted to avoid it if he could, thus he chose rehab.

 

[DANOZ28]

what is relevant is coyles poor performance after what 5 seasons? he should be knocking on 20G every year with his tool kit. hes just not that good and needs to be upgraded. maybe he thrives someplace else. after 5 seasons i give up on him. who's next?

 

[57special]

I would say that at least half the players on the team are playing through assorted injuries by season's end. That's what athletes at the highest level do. What they put up with is not what a normal person does.

I'm generally gonna trust that the team medical staff know a hell of a lot more than we do about injuries. It is in both the teams, and the players interest, to take care of them as much as possible. Surgery is not the cure all that some people assume it is. Operations can be botched, infections can happen, or the patients body simply doesn't react well to the procedure. Sometimes waiting for the body to heal itself is the best option. Overaggressive medicine can create as many problems as it solves.

I had a spontaneous Pneumothorax condition when I was younger. Basically, my lung kept collapsing. The head Thoracic Surgeon at a hospital I went to urged me to have a major, invasive operation that would fix it, but I decided not to. Didn't like the guy, and my own research confirmed that surgery wasn't always necessary with the condition I had(I'll skip the details). Long story short, my body fixed itself and I've put almost 40 years on my lungs since my last collapse. A couple of years later I met a guy whose Dad went into the hospital for the exact same operation. He never came out again.
The Surgeon may well have been right in my case, but my point is that there are no sure things when it comes to Medicine.

 

[57special]

what is relevant is coyles poor performance after what 5 seasons? he should be knocking on 20G every year with his tool kit. hes just not that good and needs to be upgraded. maybe he thrives someplace else. after 5 seasons i give up on him. who's next?

Well, he had 56 points in 2016-17, and 21 goals the year before. There will be a lineup of teams waiting for him, especially at his relatively low cap hit.

 

[DANOZ28]

if you want to keep the team together and hope & pray for different results go 4 it. i think changes need to be made.

 

[SomethingGeneric]

My biggest problem is I feel like we misused Coyle this year and in years past. He shouldn't be a number 1 option on any line he is on yet we have him playing center on a third line that was just awful for most of the year? He needs to be put with players who can make him look better not the other way around. Either move him up the lineup or put him on a wing with a center who can actually make plays. His first few years when he played with a shiny new Parise and a not so old that he can barely keep up Koivu we all believed he was going to be a better player than he is now.

 

[Wild11MN]

My biggest problem is I feel like we misused Coyle this year and in years past. He shouldn't be a number 1 option on any line he is on yet we have him playing center on a third line that was just awful for most of the year? He needs to be put with players who can make him look better not the other way around. Either move him up the lineup or put him on a wing with a center who can actually make plays. His first few years when he played with a shiny new Parise and a not so old that he can barely keep up Koivu we all believed he was going to be a better player than he is now.

The problem is we need more of those "other way around" type of players. I feel like that's Granlund and Staal basically for forwards on this team. A case could be made for a healthy Nino as well as Koivu.

 

[thestonedkoala]

My biggest problem is I feel like we misused Coyle this year and in years past

I feel like that's half our team. I feel like if we let Coyle go, he would have been a 30-35 goal scorer on some team like Vegas.

 

[Wabit]

Would have been a good opportunity to give Sam Anas a chance imho.

Ennis, with all his warts, is better than Anas. Take away the 24 PPP and Anas's had decent scoring, but nothing special. His all around game also needs a lot of work. Kunin, Mitchell (again) or O'Reilly would have been a better options, they all have much more complete games. But still a no wrist Coyle > any of the Iowa guys.

I don't think he let the team know the extent of his injuries, otherwise WTF putting him on the point for PP's?

 

[Wabit]

The problem is we need more of those "other way around" type of players. I feel like that's Granlund and Staal basically for forwards on this team. A case could be made for a healthy Nino as well as Koivu.

A healthy Parise makes his linemates better, it's just been so long since we've seen a healthy ZP it's hard to remember. Pommer, for as much disdain he got, was another one that made his linemates better.

I do think JEE will grow into that type of player. Kunin was that type of player as an amateur (UW, U-20). Kaprizov might be also (being attached to Datsyuk at the hip has made lots of players look great).

I do agree that most of the FWDs; outside of Granny, Staal, and ZP (once he got healthy); were complete passengers last season.

 

[Uberdachen]

Once the team is healthy as it appears it can be, Coyle is usually the odd man out and stuck on the 3rd line. He would previously have had company at Haula and Pominville's level, who were legitimate middle-6ers, but they were replaced with a physical 4th liner and that yappy little yellow dog that follows it around. It's a mystery how removing all other talent beneath the top-6 made things worse, but Coyle must have figured it out because it apparently caused him to slit his wrists.

 

[Nharris31]

A healthy Parise makes his linemates better, it's just been so long since we've seen a healthy ZP it's hard to remember. Pommer, for as much disdain he got, was another one that made his linemates better.

I do think JEE will grow into that type of player. Kunin was that type of player as an amateur (UW, U-20). Kaprizov might be also (being attached to Datsyuk at the hip has made lots of players look great).

I do agree that most of the FWDs; outside of Granny, Staal, and ZP (once he got healthy); were complete passengers last season.

He hasn’t been attached to Datsyuk in the KHL.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If Eriksson Ek is who we hope his is, and if Parise starts the year healthy (admittedly, two pretty big "ifs"), then those two + Coyle would make for a pretty good 3rd line. Then we would just need to find a RW for a Nino/Koivu 2nd line. Maybe Kunin is healthy by then, maybe they give Anas a shot during camp, maybe there is a cheap 'buy low' option out there (Jannik Hansen?).

Assuming no forwards are traded, of course.

 

[57special]

Captain Obvious here. There are two problems with Parise, besides his enormous contract;

1- his health. I hope he feels less pain, but, in general, a back problem is the kiss of death for a hockey player. Ask Wayne Gretzky and Mike Bossy.

2- His age. Don't know of an operation to fix that. Maybe he can consult with Eric Staal and Barry Bonds about how to overcome that hurdle.