Player Discussion Mikko Koivu (Part II)

[thestonedkoala]

You realize the Wild are 12-2-2 in their last 16 games right? Do you think you can find anything positive to say about them in that run? MAYBE?

They've scored 3.06 goals per game in that run as well... last I checked, anything over 3 is considered damn good!

They go on these little mini-streaks, didn't they do that last season as well at this time?

Dubnyk has been playing great hockey and this team has responded well but the point still stands that this team has terrible center depth and we shouldn't let a 12-2-2 run distract us from that fact because we're going to be revisiting this next season and the season after that until Koivu is gone or this team somehow finds a center that can produce. Until that time, the point still stands that Koivu is at least healthy this season but he's producing at a worse clip than usual, which is par for course for someone that is getting older and slower.

 

[TaLoN]

They go on these little mini-streaks, didn't they do that last season as well at this time?

Dubnyk has been playing great hockey and this team has responded well but the point still stands that this team has terrible center depth and we shouldn't let a 12-2-2 run distract us from that fact because we're going to be revisiting this next season and the season after that until Koivu is gone or this team somehow finds a center that can produce. Until that time, the point still stands that Koivu is at least healthy this season but he's producing at a worse clip than usual, which is par for course for someone that is getting older and slower.

Last season carried right into the playoffs too didn't it? We're getting to the time of year you want to be at your peak.

I disagree with you on center depth. Puck possession is generally in the Wild's favor... now sure how that translates to weak down the middle.

Stop being so infatuated with individual numbers, as that doesn't tell the full story team-wise. The Wild are just fine down the middle.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Last season carried right into the playoffs too didn't it? We're getting to the time of year you want to be at your peak.

Actually, there was also that last season collapse as usual that almost got them bounced out of the playoffs.

Stop being so infatuated with individual numbers, as that doesn't tell the full story team-wise. The Wild are just fine down the middle.

Just fine? So the 16 goals before the Dubnyk trade by the ENTIRE center depth was okay? I agree that if we play a more defensive style hockey than the Wild are just fine and don't care about goals but apparently that isn't what Fletcher or the team is really worried about because than we wouldn't have signed Vanek or traded for Poms.

 

[TaLoN]

Actually, there was also that last season collapse as usual that almost got them bounced out of the playoffs.



Just fine? So the 16 goals before the Dubnyk trade by the ENTIRE center depth was okay? I agree that if we play a more defensive style hockey than the Wild are just fine and don't care about goals but apparently that isn't what Fletcher or the team is really worried about because than we wouldn't have signed Vanek or traded for Poms.

Again... take everything in CONTEXT! The entire squad struggled before Dubnyk came in because we had such disastrous goaltending, the players stopped trusting their goaltender and tried to overly compensate, thus taking the entire team out of his game.

All Dubnyk did was bring back the team's confidence and allowed them to go back to playing their own game.

They win with puck possession and scoring goals.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Again... take everything in CONTEXT! The entire squad struggled before Dubnyk came in because we had such disastrous goaltending, the players stopped trusting their goaltender and tried to overly compensate, thus taking the entire team out of his game.

What about Koivu's cold streak last season? Or two seasons before that? Or three seasons before that? (since this is about Koivu). Koivu is very hit or miss. He's going through one of his patent hot streaks right now...

 

[Sharppi]

What about Koivu's cold streak last season? Or two seasons before that? Or three seasons before that? (since this is about Koivu). Koivu is very hit or miss. He's going through one of his patent hot streaks right now...

How about that Crosby cold streak? Or Ovi cold streak he had?

EVERY player is streaky. Koivu does what he has always done and that's enough for now, as there are no horrible regression yet to be seen. If and when that happens, he can easily be demoted to third line duties and let Granlund and Coyle/our next newest draft pick take the top-6 center duties. Is that enough? Remains to be seen, but that's the hand we've been dealt.

 

[tomgilbertfan]

Via a penguins beat writer, I believe.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

What about Koivu's cold streak last season? Or two seasons before that? Or three seasons before that? (since this is about Koivu). Koivu is very hit or miss. He's going through one of his patent hot streaks right now...

No player in the league scores a point every game anymore.

 

[thestonedkoala]

No player in the league scores a point every game anymore.

That's not the point and you know it. Koivu will go a month without scoring a goal or barely making any impact at all. Like he did this year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That's not the point and you know it. Koivu will go a month without scoring a goal or barely making any impact at all. Like he did this year.

We all know his start wasn't good, but he's corrected it and has been playing great for 3 months now. I think I'm just going to choose to appreciate that.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Sidney Crosby could be doing better. He had 3 games where he didn't score a point. Or was it more? Clearly they should trade him because he's such a streaky player. You need consistency. He just can't be counted on. Stamkos? I think he went like 2 weeks without scoring a goal. They should get rid of him too.

 

[gphr513]

Via a penguins beat writer, I believe.

What's Koivu's ratio?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

what's koivu's ratio?

51.7%

Parise 39%
Pominville 50%

For comparison.

 

[countrygentleman]

Good news is that it might be the first time Koivu hasn't been injured in a season in a while (Well minus the lockout), bad news is that he's on pace for his worse PPG since his rookie season. Meh.

You realize the Wild are 12-2-2 in their last 16 games right? Do you think you can find anything positive to say about them in that run? MAYBE?

They've scored 3.06 goals per game in that run as well... last I checked, anything over 3 is considered damn good!

Why do you have to turn this into something it is not? Stonedkoala is simply stating that Koivu has been uncharacteristically healthy this year but that hasn't turned into more production. That is a factual observation. He never mentioned this nice little run the Wild are on, so why try to turn this into that?

 

[Sharppi]

Why do you have to turn this into something it is not? Stonedkoala is simply stating that Koivu has been uncharacteristically healthy this year but that hasn't turned into more production. That is a factual observation. He never mentioned this nice little run the Wild are on, so why try to turn this into that?

Koivu has lowest PPG% of his career excluding his rookie year. I wonder how that cold streak Wild was on plays on that though. I want to see his rest of the season and I'm quite sure that IF he can stay healthy, he'll be right there around 60 points.

Some stats:

- Koivu has the lowest shooting & of his career, exactly the same as his rookie season, 6.3%. That is over 2% lower than his average of the last 5 years before this season.
- Koivu is also shooting more, last season he shot 147 shots in 65 games. This season he has shot already 144 shots in 58 games so far.
- Koivu has only 13 points on the PP this year, which is uncharacteristically low amount for him. That can be faulted to our very ****** PP to start the year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Why do you have to turn this into something it is not? Stonedkoala is simply stating that Koivu has been uncharacteristically healthy this year but that hasn't turned into more production. That is a factual observation. He never mentioned this nice little run the Wild are on, so why try to turn this into that?

At the risk of being accused of cherry picking stats:

First 19 games... 5 points

Next 39 games... 32 points (67 point pace)

Your opinion of Koivu is well documented, but in my opinion, the true reflection of the player that he is, is a lot closer to the 2nd one than the first.

 

[Spurgeon]

Are we really complaining about Koivu when he has proven in this stretch why he's the Captain? He started out very cold and now he's producing at the rate that is typical of him. Guy is a defensively sound two-way center that any team would love to have in their Top 6.

Last 5 Years:

0.89 PPG

0.87 PPG

0.8 PPG

0.77 PPG

0.83 PPG

I'll take a 0.8 PPG center that is one of the better defensive forwards in the league on a team that emphasizes defense.

He started off ice cold, but as Jan Itor points out, he's producing at a 0.82 PPG recently. The beginning of the season was an anomaly, he's shown consistently that he can produce at roughly a 0.8 PPG.

Our center position is obviously our weak spot because we've never had that elite #1 center, but we definitely have 2 centers that belong in the Top 6 in Koivu and Granlund. Our depth at center is great, however, with Coyle, Haula, Brodziak, and Carter. I still think Haula has potential and he's going to have to work on his game in the off-season like Zucker did to prove he can be a successful NHL center.

 

[DANOZ28]

compare koivu's goal scoring to saku, big joe, pat sharp etc then lets talk.

 

[Sharppi]

I don't understand why we have to sing the same song to the same people every time.

"KOIVU IS BAD!"

"Koivu is not bad, Koivu is Koivu and has always been Koivu"

"But he's often injured/not a real #1/has low PPG/is getting older(O RLY!?)/some other reason why I have always hated Koivu"

"But here's statistics that if you ignore short term anomalies, Koivu is Koivu"



* 2 months pass *

"KOIVU IS BAD!"

And the cycle goes on...

 

[Sharppi]

compare koivu's goal scoring to saku, big joe, pat sharp etc then lets talk.

Joe Thornton.

2011-12 - 18 Goals, Mikko had 12 | Joe had this one
2012-13 - 7 Goals, Mikko had 11 | Mikko had this one
2013-14 - 11 Goals, Mikko had 11 | Tie
2014-15 - 12 Goals, Mikko has 9 so far | Joe is leading on THREE WHOLE GOALS THIS YEAR

So Mikko Koivu is putting roughly the same goalscoring numbers that Joe Thornton is.

Lets talk.

 

[Wild11MN]

compare koivu's goal scoring to saku, big joe, pat sharp etc then lets talk.

I'm trying to understand which side you're on here. Patrick Sharp is a winger, so I don't see what he has to do with this discussion. Saku scored 20 goals three times in 18 seasons with a max of 22. Mikko has scored 20 goals three times in 9 seasons with a max of 22.

Thornton's prime is long gone and hasn't scored more than 21 goals since 08-09. But his prime was obviously better than Koivu's and no one says otherwise.

If you're taking the opposite stance, okay.. but not really sure what you're saying in that case either. I'm just confused.

 

[KPRGol]

I think "big joe" is a reference to Pavelski.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

A lot of people are always going to prefer shoot-first players. Some players, Koivu included, just aren't wired that way, and his production is always going to be diminished by some people because it's assist heavy. He's a 15-20 goal scorer; it's just the way it is.

 

[BurnsyMN]

I will never understand the Koivu hate and the "rip the C" talk some people have about him. He's never been a high scoring center. He's a two way, defensive sound center who provides plenty of offense. Of course you are always going to want more but he isn't that type of player. He has never sacrificed defense for offense and never will. He has averaged nearly 50 points a year his entire career. If we went into the draft this year drafting a center and you could tell the future, knowing he'd achieve 500 career points and not be a defensive liability, would you pick him? I'd bet yes.

 

[rynryn]

lets just say everyone suddenly agrees Koivu sucks. now what