Confirmed with Link: Mike Smith (25% retained) for Hickey, Johnson and conditional 3rd

[DFF]

I'm fine with picks for something that isn't a stopgap measure. Picks are to get potential players, they aren't nothing as we learned during the futile Sutter years. We had a dry pool because Sutter traded them until we went rebuild and stopped trading our picks away. If you get someone like Dougie robbery hell yes, but this is trade for a stopgap that may or may not even be useful, after we already gave a few picks away previously.

Picks are nice for the fans because of the hypes.

In reality, if you look at the Flames record, only lottery players really made any difference with some small exceptions....


It's nice to brag how Wotherspoon, Seiloff, Hickey, Kulak, etc...are going to be allstars though

 

[BurnEmUp]

The Flames finished with 94 points and made the playoffs despite below average goaltending.

Smith had better numbers than the Flames goalies last season.

Smith put up those better numbers despite facing more shots and more dangerous scoring chances than the Flames goalies last season.

This trade, on paper at least, made the Flames a better team and they really didn't give up much to accomplish it.

Treliving also got Arizona to retain, which leaves the door open to spend some money on back up goaltending as well, to guard against injuries and buy Rittich, Gillies and Parsons more time to cook in the minors.

My bet is they do re-sign Johnson after July 1st, as was rumored by Francis.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

The Flames finished with 94 points and made the playoffs despite below average goaltending.

Smith had better numbers than the Flames goalies last season.

Smith put up those better numbers despite facing more shots and more dangerous scoring chances than the Flames goalies last season.

This trade, on paper at least, made the Flames a better team and they really didn't give up much to accomplish it.

Treliving also got Arizona to retain, which leaves the door open to spend some money on back up goaltending as well, to guard against injuries and buy Rittich, Gillies and Parsons more time to cook in the minors.

My bet is they do re-sign Johnson after July 1st, as was rumored by Francis.

And look at the numbers Elliott put up before he got here, and how did that turn out?
I think it was a lateral move at best. But I, like many, am worried about the attitude & antics Smith will show. If Johnson is signed, I hope it isn't for more than 1 year. By next year 1 of those young goalies needs to graduate from the minors.
The expected Smith injury will give (most likely Gillies) his shot to sink or swim.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

And look at the numbers Elliott put up before he got here, and how did that turn out?
I think it was a lateral move at best. But I, like many, am worried about the attitude & antics Smith will show. If Johnson is signed, I hope it isn't for more than 1 year. By next year 1 of those young goalies needs to graduate from the minors.
The expected Smith injury will give (most likely Gillies) his shot to sink or swim.

A) Elliot played for Ken "suck the light out of day" Hitchcock

B) Smith is an elite puck mover. He faces less shots because of this and that doesn't show on sv%

C) Most importantly. Both Hiller and Elliot were never true #1s. Elliot never really in his career. He's lost his net at some point pretty much every season. Hiller had lost his net. Smith, on the other hand, has been a without question #1 goalie and appeared on team Canada. The guy is going to finally have a chance to show how good he is in front of a good defensive team.

 

[viper0220]

With Fleury, Mrazek, Raanta and Grubauer all available, would it not made sense to go after one of these? It kind of sucks that Vegas has better goaltending depth than us, this should not have been allowed(how does an expansion team have better players than some of the NHL teams already in existence.)

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

A) Elliot played for Ken "suck the light out of day" Hitchcock

B) Smith is an elite puck mover. He faces less shots because of this and that doesn't show on sv%

C) Most importantly. Both Hiller and Elliot were never true #1s. Elliot never really in his career. He's lost his net at some point pretty much every season. Hiller had lost his net. Smith, on the other hand, has been a without question #1 goalie and appeared on team Canada. The guy is going to finally have a chance to show how good he is in front of a good defensive team.

Smith from what I've seen has poor rebound control though, which influence shots overall. Puck moving influences high danger because you eliminate cycle and forecheck. Of course elite transition teams will still find ways to get high danger scoring opportunities. Rinne faces very little shots because he's elite in both. Smith is elite in one, poor in the other.

 

[DFF]

Smith from what I've seen has poor rebound control though, which influence shots overall. Puck moving influences high danger because you eliminate cycle and forecheck. Of course elite transition teams will still find ways to get high danger scoring opportunities. Rinne faces very little shots because he's elite in both. Smith is elite in one, poor in the other.

Also Smith's "5 hole" is about as good as Johnson's glove hand...they are the type that makes you want to quit watching hockey.

 

[Slush]

I don't get why people are being upset about Hickey being part of this. He's a middling prospect at best right now who wasn't indicating that he was going to commit to Calgary. Pretty much the equivalent of a throw-in.

From my perspective, as Johnson is a UFA and Hickey is chump change, the value becomes conditional 3rd for Mike Smith. Guessing the condition is either # of playoff games played, or something like reaching the second round in 2018. With 25% salary retained, this is absolutely not the worst I was imagining for a potential (aging) #1 goalie, although I'm still miffed Calgary went with Smith as a personality, but not as a talent.

It's HF Boards. People here are never happy. I like this trade. I would rather have Smith than Elliott.

 

[Mr Snrub]

I really want to believe he'll be better than Elliott but I'm not ready to claim any amount of faith that any goaltender will succeed in Calgary.

Also, Jordan Sigalet. You'd think with how aggressively teams are willing to turn over coaching staff and GMs that he'd be long gone considering it's not exactly a secret that goaltenders have awful years here. I know he's an easy scapegoat but I'm really surprised that there hasn't been action.

 

[DFF]

It's interesting the Mrazek is available for the draft.

So did the Flames choose Smith over Mrazek?

Mrazek was horrible last year anyway but at least he is young

 

[Anglesmith]

I really want to believe he'll be better than Elliott but I'm not ready to claim any amount of faith that any goaltender will succeed in Calgary.

Also, Jordan Sigalet. You'd think with how aggressively teams are willing to turn over coaching staff and GMs that he'd be long gone considering it's not exactly a secret that goaltenders have awful years here. I know he's an easy scapegoat but I'm really surprised that there hasn't been action.

This conversation has been beaten to death already, but what goalies we've had here have gone on to be more successful at their next stop? That's really the only way you could make a negative assessment of a goalie coach as a fan. If course, management has a lot more to go on as they can assess what he actually does.

 

[Volica]

This conversation has been beaten to death already, but what goalies we've had here have gone on to be more successful at their next stop? That's really the only way you could make a negative assessment of a goalie coach as a fan. If course, management has a lot more to go on as they can assess what he actually does.

I have no horse in the race, as I don't particularly like or dislike the goalie coach.
Could we just get one goalie that overachieves please? Seems like anyone who comes here struggles.

Our defence and system certainly didn't help one bit with the Bob Hartley patented 'let them shoot a ton on us, we'll block shots and counter' system. But the system/defence certainly played up to snuff this past season (after the first month and a bit) and the goalies really let us down outside of about 20-24 games.

 

[Mr Snrub]

This conversation has been beaten to death already, but what goalies we've had here have gone on to be more successful at their next stop? That's really the only way you could make a negative assessment of a goalie coach as a fan. If course, management has a lot more to go on as they can assess what he actually does.

I think it's completely fair to wonder whether the fact that lots of those guys don't have NHL jobs is because of the way they played in Calgary scared potential buyers away, rather than because they simply were not at all NHL-calibre. Hard to adjudicate potential success when none of them were given a shot in North America afterwards.

Elliott could be the real litmus test, I'm very curious what his next season will be like/who takes a chance on him.

 

[Anglesmith]

I think it's completely fair to wonder whether the fact that lots of those guys don't have NHL jobs is because of the way they played in Calgary scared potential buyers away, rather than because they simply were not at all NHL-calibre. Hard to adjudicate potential success when none of them were given a shot in North America afterwards.

Elliott could be the real litmus test, I'm very curious what his next season will be like/who takes a chance on him.

Karri Ramo got another shot in NA. So did Reto Berra. And there were quite a few at the end of their career, so why would we expect them to suddenly overachieve?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I think only two of the past goalies (not including last year) were NHLers when they left Calgary:

1) Karri Ramo. However what happened with him was an injury that he doesn't seem to have made a full comeback from. The Ramo we were getting before his injury however was a more-than-reliable goalie. Calgary did make a mistake in waiving him though, as he wasn't the reason he hadn't won a game at that point in the season - Hamilton's adjustment curve and Brodie's injury had way more to do with that.

2) Joni Ortio. When he got a chance he showed he was a competent NHL backup. He also showed puck skills and passed the eye test on rebound control. I think what happened was teams maybe offered him a two-way contract and he felt more comfortable making dollars in Sweden than risk being back in the AHL. If he were a North American goalie he probably would have taken a two-way. Maybe at age 24 he wasn't as good as Johnson at 30, but I think he showed enough then and enough upside that his time in Calgary probably cost him an NHL spot that he might have gotten developing for a team without Canadian Market Impatience.

Personally, I never had any faith in the likes of Reto Berra or Nicklas Backstrom, and we all know how the Jonas Hiller dealy went down.

As for last year, our top four defensemen played well (yes, even Wideman often had stretches where his play was underrated) enough that the goalies only have a mirror to explain their SV%. Ironically Johnson played his best hockey when the team played its worst, but that doesn't mean he didn't play his worst hockey when the skaters were playing well. Elliott I think started off mostly a victim of a disjointed penalty kill with the new coach, and really started playing well as soon as we turned the PK around. I didn't even think he was bad in game 1 against the Ducks, we got robbed by the refs. Game 2, he let in some goals he would like back but he gave us a chance to win. Game 3 was on 90% on him (10% on the refs). Game 4 he played bad and the team played not-good-enough too, I think benching Stajan was a mistake. Regardless, a ~.910 is a pretty good description of the overall level of play we got from Elliott - hardly a career-ending season. May never get a chance again in the playoffs though.

I don't think we're a goalie graveyard. However I also don't think we handled Ortio right, and we probably won't handle Rittich/Gillies/Parsons right going forward. There seems to be a threshold between development and opportunity that they cant' seem to figure out.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Karri Ramo got another shot in NA. So did Reto Berra. And there were quite a few at the end of their career, so why would we expect them to suddenly overachieve?

Ramo played three games for the Marlies, I have a really hard time referring to that as a real second chance considering how long he was in a legitimate NHL tandem with the Flames. Berra actually did look better playing for the Avs than for Calgary, although obviously in a pretty small sample size. Hiller was the only guy at the end of his career and I still think it's weird he wasn't given an offer or two elsewhere considering how abrupt his falling off was and the quality of player he'd been beforehand. Ortio showed a decent amount of promise and there's no reason he should be in Sweden right now. By my count that's at minimum three out of four goalies that could've played NHL hockey again but weren't even given a chance, I find that very weird.

 

[Anglesmith]

Ramo played three games for the Marlies, I have a really hard time referring to that as a real second chance considering how long he was in a legitimate NHL tandem with the Flames. Berra actually did look better playing for the Avs than for Calgary, although obviously in a pretty small sample size. Hiller was the only guy at the end of his career and I still think it's weird he wasn't given an offer or two elsewhere considering how abrupt his falling off was and the quality of player he'd been beforehand. Ortio showed a decent amount of promise and there's no reason he should be in Sweden right now. By my count that's at minimum three out of four goalies that could've played NHL hockey again but weren't even given a chance, I find that very weird.

Ramo only had a few games, but he was given the opportunity to practice with the organization and earn himself a contract, and he failed to impress. If he'd played like he played in Calgary, he would have been able to help them for sure. Like Johnson, Ortio had a systematic flaw in his game that got exploited repeatedly- he ducks at high shots (and him being short makes that a real problem). As soon as that becomes clear, there's no reason for another team in the NHL to take a flyer on him.

And like I said, the people who are responsible for evaluating him actually get to interact with him and make an informed decision. It's entirely possible that Sigalet noticed flaws in the goalies and let management know to cut ties. If that's the case, then management would credit him with the return for Berra, and helping them out with management decisions regarding their goalies, because they've been apparently right every time.

Elliott is going to be a real litmus test, yes, but at the same time, what is really representative of what he did here? From the time the defence was settled up to the time the Monstars sapped his talent in the playoffs, he was a very good goalie. But of course, we'll remember the completely unsystematic failure in the playoffs which no one could have seen coming. Was that Elliott? Was that the coach? Elliott seems to think it was Elliott. But it's worth noting that Elliott had had stretches of "oh my god how is this guy an NHL goalie?" previously in his career, at just about every single stop in the NHL. And he likely will again.

 

[djpatm]

In reality, if you look at the Flames record, only lottery players really made any difference with some small exceptions....

Haha. cause Johnny is small. like.

 

[djpatm]

It's HF Boards. People here are never happy. I like this trade. I would rather have Smith than Elliott.

This team has pretty much been medicore for 27 years.

Why on earth should any Flames fan be happy?

Anyways, Elliott had better numbers than Smith before coming to the Flames so they argument goes out the window. Smith has one good year under his belt. The fact that he is a starter is such a lame argument. Yes he can play 60 games, what does that matter if he's mediocre the entire time? I see this as basically throwing the pick away.

 

[Ynnek]

I like the trade myself. Now get Mrazek as a backup and were set.

 

[DFF]

I like the trade myself. Now get Mrazek as a backup and were set.

Well, i dont think they want to spend 4M on a backup.

Need to get a competent dman.

 

[Mobiandi]

I don't get the aversion towards an "expensive" backup. He'd be more of a 1b if anything. And once Smith's contract is up, the younger goalie moves into the starter role with Gillies as the backup. A seamless transition in theory, and gives us the constancy in net we've been seeking

 

[DFF]

I don't get the aversion towards an "expensive" backup. He'd be more of a 1b if anything. And once Smith's contract is up, the younger goalie moves into the starter role with Gillies as the backup. A seamless transition in theory, and gives us the constancy in net we've been seeking

You assume he is good

Detroit protected the almost washed up Howard over him....maybe there is a hint there

and it's not the money on the backup. They need the money to upgrade somewhere else. We still have only 3 competent dmen on the roster.

 

[Mobiandi]

You assume he is good

Detroit protected the almost washed up Howard over him....maybe there is a hint there

and it's not the money on the backup. They need the money to upgrade somewhere else. We still have only 3 competent dmen on the roster.

A lot of dead weight is poised to come off the books this offseason and the cap is going up. We have the space to sign Michael Stone and re-sign other players. As well, the goalies taken during expansion will never be cheaper to acquire. Going cheap and hitching our wagon to Gillies and Parsons, who have showed nothing yet is the worst move we could do

 

[Sparky93]

A lot of dead weight is poised to come off the books this offseason and the cap is going up. We have the space to sign Michael Stone and re-sign other players. As well, the goalies taken during expansion will never be cheaper to acquire. Going cheap and hitching our wagon to Gillies and Parsons, who have showed nothing yet is the worst move we could do

I'd be incredibly surprised if there wasn't more to Mrazek not being protected. Just seems like too strange of a move, for there not to be more to the story.