Mike Babcock Elite Coach Appreciation thread

[LeafChief]

Yes, but there's a difference between rational speculation and wild speculation. Buffalo isn't even close to as good as the Leafs and it's not due to coaching.

Yeah no coach is perfect. Babcock still has enough flaws that you can't say that everyone must be satisfied by him or else there's something wrong with you. That's the claim I took issue with

I said everyone should be satisfied with him?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I said everyone should be satisfied with him?

The conversation didn't start with you

 

[Field of Dreams]

I probably agree with your first point since the pickings are pretty slim. The second part is pretty off base though. Babcock is far from perfect

I would never say Babcock is perfect, nor would I say any coach past or present is perfect. I'm saying fans who hate Babcock would find reasons to hate any other coach that isn't hoisting the cup on yonge street.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Pretty unrealistic hypothetical if you ask me.

A proper one would have made his point a lot more valid.

The claim that the Leafs would make the playoffs following the season after finishing last would also be pretty unrealistic as well, yet it happened.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Sabres would be better with Babs as coach.. Playoff better? I don't think so... A team a handful of points away from the 8th seed? I don't think that's unrealistic

The fact that they hired a coach at the same time the Leafs hired Babs and subsequently fired him last year is an indication that coaching was an issue. Do you think Eichel could act like he has with Babs' at the helm? I doubt it.

 

[AllDay28]

Babcock is the best.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

The claim that the Leafs would make the playoffs following the season after finishing last would also be pretty unrealistic as well, yet it happened.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Sabres would be better with Babs as coach.. Playoff better? I don't think so... A team a handful of points away from the 8th seed? I don't think that's unrealistic

The fact that they hired a coach at the same time the Leafs hired Babs and subsequently fired him last year is an indication that coaching was an issue. Do you think Eichel could act like he has with Babs' at the helm? I doubt it.

Not a good comparison honestly. Leafs jumped from last to a playoff spot because they added guys like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Andersen. Not because of a coaching change. Hell, Babcock was the coach of the last place team. To say that buffalo would have the same last place roster and content for the playoffs if they had Babcock is insanity

 

[IPS]

The claim that the Leafs would make the playoffs following the season after finishing last would also be pretty unrealistic as well, yet it happened.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Sabres would be better with Babs as coach.. Playoff better? I don't think so... A team a handful of points away from the 8th seed? I don't think that's unrealistic

The fact that they hired a coach at the same time the Leafs hired Babs and subsequently fired him last year is an indication that coaching was an issue. Do you think Eichel could act like he has with Babs' at the helm? I doubt it.

Sabres roster is absolute trash. Doesn't matter who coaches them - they're doomed for bottom 3 finishes. Leafs went from last to playoffs because they injected an insane amount of young talent into the lineup.

Coaching IS NOT the issue with Buffalo. They've shuffled several coaches through and have still had utter failures. No idea how you managed to reverse that logic

 

[stickty111]

People need to stop pretending Sabres have a bunch of AHL guys.
Eichel
ROR
Reinhart
Risto
Okposo
Pomminville
Bogosion

Thats some pretty nice talent

They should have done a lot better then they have. Tells me this is a coaching issue.
Babcock likely gets them close to a playoff spot if not more.

 

[stickty111]

Also its pretty sad that some people dont know what appreciation means.
Hey guys, appreciation means positivity, not "Babcock is terrible because my agenda says he does, and also because he isnt the perfect human being on earth, or he doesnt play my favorite players more"

 

[Semantics]

Babcock would help Buffalo, but he hurts the Leafs. It's simple, he forces his teams to work hard, and play a system designed around grinders like Polak and Hyman. This works really well for teams that don't have a ton of talent, but brings down talented teams like the Leafs or Detroit (which should have won more than one cup during his tenure).

His methods are becoming increasingly less relevant with the league moving to 18 skilled skaters and away from top-6/bottom-6 model.

 

[hamzarocks]

People need to stop pretending Sabres have a bunch of AHL guys.
Eichel
ROR
Reinhart
Risto
Okposo
Pomminville
Bogosion

Thats some pretty nice talent

They should have done a lot better then they have. Tells me this is a coaching issue.
Babcock likely gets them close to a playoff spot if not more.

Pominville is a ahl player/4th liner, he was a cap dump. Bogo is a injury prone number 5 defender. Ask any sabre fans and they really dont like him. Eichel aa great as he is would have been injured even if Babcock was coaching. Risto has to learn about playing defense. People say rielly is a poor defensive player but risto is even worse. The sabres have a talent issue, managment issue, developing issue, and coaching issue. With Babcock they may end up picking 8-12 instead of bottom 5 but they just are not good enough (15-16 to 17-18 sabres) to make the playoffs. Babcock has been great for the leafs but he has had a lot to work with as well. Overall his first 3 years I would rate as a B+/A-. I haven't liked some of his choices in regards to lineup and the constant need to line match. But for every misuse of players like kapanen, johnsson(they will both be regular offensive players next season), leivo, Babcock has developed players really effectively (kadri, Gardiner, bozak, jvr(have these two the perfect amount of usage and time to be succsessful) . Happy with Babcock so far but next season a 1st round series is a minimum. Hoping Babcock and the leafs can have a good deep run.

 

[stickty111]

Pominville is a ahl player/4th liner, he was a cap dump. Bogo is a injury prone number 5 defender. Ask any sabre fans and they really dont like him. Eichel aa great as he is would have been injured even if Babcock was coaching. Risto has to learn about playing defense. People say rielly is a poor defensive player but risto is even worse. The sabres have a talent issue, managment issue, developing issue, and coaching issue. With Babcock they may end up picking 8-12 instead of bottom 5 but they just are not good enough (15-16 to 17-18 sabres) to make the playoffs. Babcock has been great for the leafs but he has had a lot to work with as well. Overall his first 3 years I would rate as a B+/A-. I haven't liked some of his choices in regards to lineup and the constant need to line match. But for every misuse of players like kapanen, johnsson(they will both be regular offensive players next season), leivo, Babcock has developed players really effectively (kadri, Gardiner, bozak, jvr(have these two the perfect amount of usage and time to be succsessful) . Happy with Babcock so far but next season a 1st round series is a minimum. Hoping Babcock and the leafs can have a good deep run.

Thats fair, but still that team is good enough to be more then just bottom 5.

 

[dimi78]

Babcock would help Buffalo, but he hurts the Leafs. It's simple, he forces his teams to work hard, and play a system designed around grinders like Polak and Hyman. This works really well for teams that don't have a ton of talent, but brings down talented teams like the Leafs or Detroit (which should have won more than one cup during his tenure).

His methods are becoming increasingly less relevant with the league moving to 18 skilled skaters and away from top-6/bottom-6 model.

The team had a better season than last with injuries to the great Matthews, Marner struggles, Nylander struggles and Kadri struggles in production and you want to believe this drivel? It's guys like Hyman & Polak who compete that make you good team. All the talent in the world doesn't translate into wins. Talent is the entertainment value of the sport that only prevails to winning when hard work & the drive to compete comes with it. It's compete and the drive to outwork your opposition that makes you a winner regardless of how much talent you have.

Why do you think JVR isn't being re-signed?

I get it your upset that we lost to Boston in the first round get over it. Some times you lose before you win. The Leafs didn't lose because of coaching or the ridiculous claims that Polak and especially Hyman hurt the team when the opposite is what both of those players provided in the post season. They lost because not all the players especially the so called talented players didn't execute on the core fundamental of compete. That will always be on the players as there's no excuse for not competing.

Matthews play, the teams so called best player deserved to be benched the way he competed in the playoffs but the coach didn't do that why? Because he's damn good coach who understands failing is how you get better. You can blame Babcock for Matthews play all you want your flat out wrong. Matthews & Matthews alone is to blame for his lack of compete in the playoffs.

Crosby isn't the best player in the world because he's the most skilled. He's the best player in the world because his high end talent doesn't out weigh his compete to work hard.

Make no mistake. When it comes to winning the Stanley cup you have to have each & every player on board to work hard other wise your only hope is goaltending to stand on it's head for you to win.

The NHL isn't an allstar game nor a talent competition when it comes to winning. It's a competition in drive to compete. 9 times out of 10 it's the team that's out working the other that wins. the 1 time it's not is because the goaltender stole the game. That's the basics. No compete no wins.

What do you want the Leafs to be? A team that wins do to the group as a whole deserving it or one that relies on goaltending?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why do you think JVR isn't being re-signed?

I'm under the impression that hardly anyone expects JVR to be resigned. Does your opinion differ?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Sabres roster is absolute trash. Doesn't matter who coaches them - they're doomed for bottom 3 finishes. Leafs went from last to playoffs because they injected an insane amount of young talent into the lineup.

The thing is that we think their roster is trash due to their on-ice performances, which is influenced by coaching. You can't separate player performance from coaching impact unless you have a precedence to compare with.

 

[socko]

Being better than the Buffalo coach isn't really the standard I would set for the best and highest paid coach in the league. 1 win with all those stacked Detroit teams was not very impressive. And did I mention Komarov?

 

[DarkKnight]

There is fair criticism where warranted, there is also a lack of respect which is pretty off putting. Some posters here actually think they're as smart as the coach, which is really quite amusing. I'm old enough to remember when Burns was questioned relentlessly, Quinn was a no brain with no system, I mean it's really just "insert name here" for people who are critical for its own sake. Like I've said, if you can't give Babs credit from time to time, you're both intellectually boring and horribly biased.

 

[saltming]

I guess people who think coaching .akes no difference have never had a good coach and a bad coach? It's a world of difference.

Also people denying that coaching is not the difference between buffalo and Toronto and saying that the buffalo team has bad players on it are living a revisionist history. Years ago I think every analyst and reporter had buffalo in the playoffs and the leafs as a bubble team at best.
When buffalo acquired Kane and O'Reilly to add to their young pieces everyone thought they had put together a playoff team but....

 

[saltming]

The Sabres have finished at the bottom of the division in three of the four years since it’s been re-arranged as the Atlantic, which has given them time and opportunity to put together a young roster with promise. Some reasonably believed 2016-17 was going to be Buffalo’s big break out,

As mentioned, the Sabres need an improvement in their goals this season and it seems the coach coach will optimize the situation. Eichel will score, Ryan O’Reilly will be in the 50-to-55-point range and Sam Reinhart should get up into that range this season, too. Aside from them, there are two veteran forwards in particular that need to step up.

 

[The Iceman]

If you are the coach of a modern Canadian Olympic team you are an elite coach.

 

[PuckMagi]

I would never say Babcock is perfect, nor would I say any coach past or present is perfect. I'm saying fans who hate Babcock would find reasons to hate any other coach that isn't hoisting the cup on yonge street.

I've never really had a huge problem with Leaf's coaching until Babcock came around.

I recognized that a lot of our other coaches were doing the best they could with what they had available to them.

I really don't think this is a case of us just hating on a coach for the heck of it. I probably wouldn't be complaining if we had an average coach... or even a slightly below average coach... but Babcock is truly a horrible coach at this point and I have no confidence in him whatsoever.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

No question, there are better 1Cs than Matthews.
Better 2Cs than Kadri.
Better goalies than Anderson.
Better wingers than JVR, Nylander.
Better D than Reilly, Gardiner, even D

There may be better coaches than Babcock.

But we can't have the very best of everybody.

He's a very good coach and he's getting a lot out of our crew of retiring mediocre vets, along with our rookies and sophomores.

We need to get better, and there's no doubt in my mind that we are doing that.

I really think we coulda/shoulda won that series against Boston - we're better than them IMO. But that's why you play the games. They're pretty damned good too.

 

[AM34WN29MM16]

No question, there are better 1Cs than Matthews.
Better 2Cs than Kadri.
Better goalies than Anderson.
Better wingers than JVR, Nylander.
Better D than Reilly, Gardiner, even D

There may be better coaches than Babcock.

But we can't have the very best of everybody.

He's a very good coach and he's getting a lot out of our crew of retiring mediocre vets, along with our rookies and sophomores.

We need to get better, and there's no doubt in my mind that we are doing that.

I really think we coulda/shoulda won that series against Boston - we're better than them IMO. But that's why you play the games. They're pretty damned good too.

We coulda been a better team than Boston, but we weren't. Hence, we shouldn'ta won that series. Babs got outcoached in that series. He's still a good coach but it will be interesting to see how the Dubas/Babs dynamics work out both in the short run and long term. In the Dubas video (analytics/recency bias) he talked about in the Soo everyone had to buy in including the head coach.

 

[Jozay]

bobcat is better

 

[leburn98]

It's funny how when the Leafs go from missing the playoffs to consecutive playoff births, it's the players, not Babcock that are praised. Yet when they lose in Game 7 of a 1st round series, the blame is suddenly all Babcock's. I love this fan base.