Player Discussion Mikael Granlund IX

[TaLoN]

Toews, like Kane, had already 3 rings before he got paid. Kopitar had 2 rings.
And don't let me get started with Crosby and Malkin. You really compare Granlund to them?
Your post just makes you look silly.
Btw, after signing their franchise breaking deals the Kings and Hawks added 0 cups.
That's what I'm saying. No discount, no more rings.

You're counting Chicago out too soon. They could be good enough for the Cup THIS year.

 

[Wabit]

I think that he could be the former without having to be the latter.

What is the list of players that have been top 25 scorers for, say, the last 5 years?

Going from 13-14 season until now total points. *I don't like including the 12-13 strike season of 48 games in things.

Top 30:
Crosby 340p
Benn
Kane
Seguin
Backstrom
Ovi
Pavelski
EK
Tavares
Giroux
Getzlaf
Thornton
Malkin
Wheeler
Kessel
Burns
Pacioretti
Tarasenko
20. Kopitar 244p
21. RyJo 243p
22. Perry 241p
23. Towes 238p (seems to be a nice cutoff point)
24. Carter 230p
25. Bergeron 225p
25. Okposo 225p
25. Spezza 225p
Hall
Marchand
30. Duchene/D. Sedin (tied) 220p

Wild players in top 100:
Koivu 45th (tied) 206p
Parise 50th (tied) 199p
Pommer 78th (tied)188p
Granny 88th (tied) 183p

Of the top 30 list 15-20 of them are in the top 25 in a given year. I don't see Granny hanging out with that group of players on a yearly basis. Moving into the top-50 I could see him doing (50-55p per year pace). He might spike up a year or two into the top 25, but I don't see him staying at a ~PPG pace.

Players like McDavid, Matthews, Laine, Eichel, ect have some serious talent and will take the spot of some of the older players on the list. I don't have Granlund in the same tiers of what those guys are/should become.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Ok. Maybe being in the top 25 scoring every year isn't as exclusive as I thought.

 

[Wabit]

Toews, like Kane, had already 3 rings before he got paid. Kopitar had 2 rings.
And don't let me get started with Crosby and Malkin. You really compare Granlund to them?
Your post just makes you look silly.
Btw, after signing their franchise breaking deals the Kings and Hawks added 0 cups.
That's what I'm saying. No discount, no more rings.

The Hawks signed Kane/Towes contracts 1 full season ago. There has been 1 SCF since their contracts started. Not really a large sample size to work with.

The Kings are 2 SCF's removed from winning it all. Kopitar (he's been garbage this season) signed his contract before this season. 0 SCF since he signed it, it's pretty hard to win a Cup when there hasn't been one awarded. Losing Quick also has something to do with their record this year.

Malkin/Crosby Won the Cup last season. The franchise breaking deal right now for Pit is MAF.

I don't have Granny in their class of players. But the kid is set to get paid stupid money with the season he's having. Especially if the Wild make the Cup finals and he has a good post-season.

I don't think he'll take any bridge deal that leaves RFA time left. Stamkos is the perfect example of why you go for money and term.

 

[Bruce Granville]

You're counting Chicago out too soon. They could be good enough for the Cup THIS year.

Imho they lost too much talent to cap issues...but got lucky that Panarin gave a discount.
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but the only western team to beat the monster coming out of the east is...the Wild.
Caps, Pens, BJs and Habs would destroy the Hawks or Sharks.

Unfortunately we might have problems with this Illinois team.
Enter Hanzal and White, who add some physicality and Haula, who swaggers them to the ground.

 

[TaLoN]

Imho they lost too much talent to cap issues...but got lucky that Panarin gave a discount.
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but the only western team to beat the monster coming out of the east is...the Wild.
Caps, Pens, BJs and Habs would destroy the Hawks or Sharks.

Unfortunately we might have problems with this Illinois team.
Enter Hanzal and White, who add some physicality and Haula, who swaggers them to the ground.

I'm sorry... but Kane is such a playoff monster that he can beat anyone as long as the rest of his team can keep the game close.

Count out Chicago at your own risk... I sure as hell won't!

 

[Wabit]

I'm sorry... but Kane is such a playoff monster that he can beat anyone as long as the rest of his team can keep the game close.

Count out Chicago at your own risk... I sure as hell won't!

Don't forget Towes took the Wild to the woodshed last time they met too.

The Hawks are hot right now too, 9-1 in their last 10 games with 4+ goals scored in all of the wins. The West still goes through the Hawks imo.

 

[TaLoN]

Don't forget Towes took the Wild to the woodshed last time they met too.

The Hawks are hot right now too, 9-1 in their last 10 games with 4+ goals scored in all of the wins. The West still goes through the Hawks imo.

I was just talking playoffs. One thing the Wild have consistently done in the post season is keep Toews off the scoreboard. They have not been able to do the same with Kane.

Might be why BB played Koivu against Kane last time, but then as you said... Toews came alive. Hopefully Hanzal will allow the Wild to hold both at the same time for a change? Kane still scares the crap out of me come post season.

 

[Werenski]

Toews, like Kane, had already 3 rings before he got paid. Kopitar had 2 rings.
And don't let me get started with Crosby and Malkin. You really compare Granlund to them?
Your post just makes you look silly.
Btw, after signing their franchise breaking deals the Kings and Hawks added 0 cups.
That's what I'm saying. No discount, no more rings.

To be fair, it's only been a couple of years since Blackhawks signed those contracts. They look poised to make a deep run again this year.

Your argument is invalid as well, look at Pens and contracts of Crosby/Malkin, by your logic they shouldn't have ever won any cups.

Kings were already in trouble before they gave Kopitar that contract with Brown and Gaborik contracts. Plus this team is built for the playoffs...if they can make it past regular season. 7 game series with them wearing you down + Quick and Doughty is daunting for any team.

 

[Wabit]

I was just talking playoffs. One thing the Wild have consistently done in the post season is keep Toews off the scoreboard. They have not been able to do the same with Kane.

Might be why BB played Koivu against Kane last time, but then as you said... Toews came alive. Hopefully Hanzal will allow the Wild to hold both at the same time for a change? Kane still scares the crap out of me come post season.

It really is a pick your poison between Kane and Toews lines for Koivu to shut down. Hopefully Parise/Hanzal/Pommer will be able to play even with the other line. I do think our 4th line and Staal line are better than the Hawk's equivalents.

It'll come down to Crawford vs Dub that decides the potential series.

I'm feeling a little better about this year. Granlund is turning into the gamebreaker the Wild have been lacking.

 

[Bruce Granville]

To be fair, it's only been a couple of years since Blackhawks signed those contracts. They look poised to make a deep run again this year.

Your argument is invalid as well, look at Pens and contracts of Crosby/Malkin, by your logic they shouldn't have ever won any cups.

Kings were already in trouble before they gave Kopitar that contract with Brown and Gaborik contracts. Plus this team is built for the playoffs...if they can make it past regular season. 7 game series with them wearing you down + Quick and Doughty is daunting for any team.

Crosby and Malkin are two crystal clear #1C on the SAME team.
Not comparable to Toews (more like Koivu, but on a goid team) and Kane, who's a winger.
The only team afraid of the Hawks is from Minnesota..

 

[TaLoN]

Crosby and Malkin are two crystal clear #1C on the SAME team.
Not comparable to Toews (more like Koivu, but on a goid team) and Kane, who's a winger.
The only team afraid of the Hawks is from Minnesota..

That simply is not true

 

[Aurinko]

Crosby and Malkin are two crystal clear #1C on the SAME team.
Not comparable to Toews (more like Koivu, but on a goid team) and Kane, who's a winger.
The only team afraid of the Hawks is from Minnesota..

Every team tries to be deep but usually ends up with max 2 hot lines.

I believe that Boudreau will continue testing with the second defensive line. I really liked that he tested Haula-Hanzal-Coyle because I'm positive that Haula and Hanzal should BOTH be on that defensive line because Haula has been consistently the forward with the best plusminus (1st,3rd,1st,[6th]).



Line combinations I wish to see:
Haula-Hanzal-Pommer (Haula and Pommer have high synergy and can def)
Haula-Hanzal-White (White brings the missing forecheck, energy and mobility)
Nino-Hanzal-Haula (Stats wise the strongest option, but probably not viable)

 

[Sharppi]

Hanzal.

Martin Hanzal.

Han-zal.

 

[BusQuets]

Every team tries to be deep but usually ends up with max 2 hot lines.

I believe that Boudreau will continue testing with the second defensive line. I really liked that he tested Haula-Hanzel-Coyle because I'm positive that Haula and Hanzel should BOTH be on that defensive line because Haula has been consistently the forward with the best plusminus (1st,3rd,1st,[6th]).



Line combinations I wish to see:
Haula-Hanzel-Pommer (Haula and Pommer have high synergy and can def)
Haula-Hanzel-White (White brings the missing forecheck, energy and mobility)
Nino-Hanzel-Haula (Stats wise the strongest option, but probably not viable)

Where's Gretel?

 

[gphr513]

We were getting OT, so I moved the non-Granlund stuff to the General Wild Discussion Thread

 

[paragon]

It's not about money, it's about belief.
...
If they don't believe in success, they try to maximize their income.

Toews, like Kane, had already 3 rings before he got paid. Kopitar had 2 rings.
And don't let me get started with Crosby and Malkin. You really compare Granlund to them?
Your post just makes you look silly.
Btw, after signing their franchise breaking deals the Kings and Hawks added 0 cups.
That's what I'm saying. No discount, no more rings.

You ignored the context. I didn't say or wasn't implying Granlund is on their level or should be paid as much. I was calling you out for implying a player doesn't believe in his team if he request a lot of money and doesn't give his teams a discount. None of the big name players did. Others already pointed out how wrong you are about Pens and Hawks so I don't have to repeat them.

If we win the cup in the near future, any player leaving before it will regret the decision really HARD. Your purpose as a hockey player is to win for your team, not to make money. Missing a cup run will come back to haunt you.

The players leaving the team just for money or fame are making a horrible decision.

That's awfully idealistic. In real world hockey pays for the bills and players have families. That's why guys like Doan are happy to play for Arizona where he has zero chance of winning anything. Parise and Suter didn't sign with Minnesota because Wild was a powerhouse of a team. Wild had just missed playoffs 4 years straight and had just finished 24th. Parise had just played in the Stanley Cup finals with the Devils. He didn't switch team for hockey reasons. Devils were also willing to pay through the nose to keep him. Do you really think he regrets his decision to leave? It's romantic to think they believed in the future of Wild, but it's painfully obvious both Suter and Parise came to Minnesota only for family reasons. They would have been paid wherever they went, so money was a non-factor.

If you're a true team player, you don't give a flying f**k about someone making more than you. If I was Parise, I would be the one feeling bad.

Most people care about what other people earn, even hockey players making millions. It defines their worth and that's why agents use those numbers in negotiations. If you employer paid every other people at your workplace twice your salary (for the same job) it would surely bother you. But that falls on the management. That's why no one in the team would hold Parise's salary against him, but it definitely is in the back of their minds when they are negotiating contracts.

Granlund has close to a zero reasons to give a discount. Outside of Staal no one else has.

 

[Aurinko]

Most people care about what other people earn, even hockey players making millions. It defines their worth and that's why agents use those numbers in negotiations. If you employer paid every other people at your workplace twice your salary (for the same job) it would surely bother you. But that falls on the management. That's why no one in the team would hold Parise's salary against him, but it definitely is in the back of their minds when they are negotiating contracts.

Granlund has close to a zero reasons to give a discount. Outside of Staal no one else has.

It's about envy and pride. Even if most people think like that doesn't mean everyone does. It's personal decision if you are willing to work in an environment where only money is used to determinate one's value. The real question is , would you rather have a lot of money or a lot of respect? There is a balance between the two for everyone.

I don't really expect younger players in the team to ignore their own value just to gain respect, but it is definitely possible. Doan might do well in Arizona, but I believe there was a professional reason for him being so emotional in his last interviews.

 

[Sharppi]

His case for Lady Byng looks good with 59pts, 6PIM. Only people who have played at least 40 games and are closeish in points and PIMs are the following:
Johnny Gaudreau, 43pts, 2PIM
Jason Pominville, 38pts, 4PIM
John Carlson, 32pts, 4PIM (that's amazing for a defender with 22+ min TOI/G)
Brandon Saad, 44pts, 8PIM

Granlund looks to have superior production points wise though.

 

[Luca]

His case for Lady Byng looks good with 59pts, 6PIM. Only people who have played at least 40 games and are closeish in points and PIMs are the following:
Johnny Gaudreau, 43pts, 2PIM
Jason Pominville, 38pts, 4PIM
John Carlson, 32pts, 4PIM (that's amazing for a defender with 22+ min TOI/G)
Brandon Saad, 44pts, 8PIM

Granlund looks to have superior production points wise though.

So Grandlund is soft?

 

[W75]

So Grandlund is soft?

Soft Euro.

 

[Fremitus Borealis]

Soft Euro.

Yeah, did you notice he wears a visor, too? What a wimp

 

[Bruce Granville]

Yeah, did you notice he wears a visor, too? What a wimp

A visor? Does that mean he's wearing a helmet? What a sissy...

 

[Minnesota]

His case for Lady Byng looks good with 59pts, 6PIM. Only people who have played at least 40 games and are closeish in points and PIMs are the following:
Johnny Gaudreau, 43pts, 2PIM
Jason Pominville, 38pts, 4PIM
John Carlson, 32pts, 4PIM (that's amazing for a defender with 22+ min TOI/G)
Brandon Saad, 44pts, 8PIM

Granlund looks to have superior production points wise though.

I find both bolded pretty impressive considering each player's role.

Granlund is pretty impressive as well.

 

[Werenski]

Soft Euro.

Don Cherry, is that you?