Mikael Backlund vs. Nazem Kadri

[Flamesfan62]

You really can't go wrong with either choice, Backlund by a hair for me.

 

[TT1]

Backlund is better away from the puck, but Kadri is significantly ahead offensively.

19g/30pts more in 53 less games for naz

I take the 30g/60pt C here

Wrong, Backlund is closer to Kadri offensively than Kadri is closer to him defensively. Not even debatable.

 

[firstemperor]

I actually don't get the age argument. Kadri is one year younger than Backlund but plays a style that usually ages worse (And yes I know Kadri isn't a pure crash and bang player, but nevertheless Backlund relies more on finesse and smarts and less on physica play and extreme skill).

The funny thing is Kadri was drafted as a skilled player with an edge. And it hasn't changed, his hands were great as a prospect and still are. The longevity concern is something I'd disagree with given Kadri's commitment to off-season training/fitness.....actually being more common-place in today's NHL in general (and not exclusive to Kadri). I don't think one has the clear advantage over the other in terms of longevity at the end of the day, it's a skewed and unfounded argument.

As for the debate, I think it's at least somewhat debatable but Kadri, to me, is the far better agitator, can handle tougher minutes, and has produced better by history and recency. I also think Kadri is the superior physical player and has more skill as well but these points are more subjective in nature.

Wrong, Backlund is closer to Kadri offensively than Kadri is closer to him defensively. Not even debatable.

Kadri's defensive metrics aren't great given his usage (I'm comparing relative to Selke candidates), but he at least keeps it relatively even against top level competition while still producing. Which is good enough for his usage.

But genuinely, since you continue to debate this point (which I don't inherently disagree with), how about backing up your statement about the defensive gap between Backlund/Kadri being "not even debatable" with something of substance- like some productivity metric.

 

[CraigsList]

Backlund has better defense, but Kadri is better offensively. I take Kadri by a little because he can play really well defensively too.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I would not be surprised Kadri returns to more of his norms next season, closer to 50-55 points. 61 points is a career high. By far his best season in a full season in his career. He also doesn't kill PIMS so he is overrated defensively. Backlund is far better defensively, offensively I think they are even if Kadri returns back to his norms. Kadri by a sliver perhaps. Kadri does create PP's. But also takes dumb PIMS now and then. Backlund kills PIMS and he has great CF and SF numbers. This one is tight. Not sure right now.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Backlund is better now but I take Kadri easily just because of his contract/age.

 

[KevinRedkey]

This really just depends on contract and who your 1C is.

If McDavid was my 1c then I go Backlund for defence.
If Toews is my 1C then I go Kadri for offense.

Both ideal 2Cs IMO

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Good poll. For the Jets, I'll take Backlund

 

[Atomos2]

Kadri

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

The funny thing is Kadri was drafted as a skilled player with an edge. And it hasn't changed, his hands were great as a prospect and still are. The longevity concern is something I'd disagree with given Kadri's commitment to off-season training/fitness.....actually being more common-place in today's NHL in general (and not exclusive to Kadri). I don't think one has the clear advantage over the other in terms of longevity at the end of the day, it's a skewed and unfounded argument.

As for the debate, I think it's at least somewhat debatable but Kadri, to me, is the far better agitator, can handle tougher minutes, and has produced better by history and recency. I also think Kadri is the superior physical player and has more skill as well but these points are more subjective in nature.



Kadri's defensive metrics aren't great given his usage (I'm comparing relative to Selke candidates), but he at least keeps it relatively even against top level competition while still producing. Which is good enough for his usage.

But genuinely, since you continue to debate this point (which I don't inherently disagree with), how about backing up your statement about the defensive gap between Backlund/Kadri being "not even debatable" with something of substance- like some productivity metric.

Kadri might have proven he can handle tougher minutes physically. But Backlund has been used in Kadri's role since he entered the league and played even more Dzone starts and prior to this season had to carry liability partners (Colborne and Bouma). I get Komarov, Brown, and some other Kadri partners aren't great but they aren't liabilities and besides some Leafs fans have said how Komarov and Brown are awesome wingers, so yeah. Everything Kadri has been tasked with Backlund is tasked with even more difficult assignments and excelled. Kadri is a good player don't get me wrong and he is showing more offensive upside. But they're a lot closer offensively as this is Kadri's first season he produced well in a heavy role.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Backlund is better now but I take Kadri easily just because of his contract/age.

Kadri is one year younger lol... Contract I do agree, but I think this is a more taking on ability rather than everything poll. Contract was never stated in OP.

 

[Ace of Hades]

I'd say Backund is better defensively while Kadri is better offensively and more skilled.

 

[firstemperor]

Kadri is a good player don't get me wrong and he is showing more offensive upside. But they're a lot closer offensively as this is Kadri's first season he produced well in a heavy role.

Both Komarov and Brown have been good defensive wingers on that line for sure. Except Komarov doesn't really provide much offensively. He provides a lot of utility though....agitates, hits, takes the occasional face-off, plays on the PK. Brown is great. Unlike with Backlund, I'm not going to argue the notion that his wingers hold him back..as Kadri's line is very much a shut-down line that works in unison...but also produces. I think your underselling Colborne defensively as well, he's not a anchor line-mate when your talking a shutdown line.

As per Kadri, he produced last year as well, he just genuinely had one of the unluckiest years I've seen from a Leaf in a long time.

His SH% was 6.5% last year. League average is ~12%. It more or less normalized this year and his output went way up as a result. I mentioned this last off-season as well...and the 2016-2017 season was proof of this, but really, it's hard to argue otherwise to "neutral fans".

I don't think we should expect 30 goals a year, annually (not many players in this league are good for that every year), his productivity (50-65 point guy) should be his general baseline output.

 

[Haatley]

Backlund and not close for me. The guy is too valuable.

 

[Halla]

Kadri is one year younger lol... Contract I do agree, but I think this is a more taking on ability rather than everything poll. Contract was never stated in OP.

once again, 1 year/7 months, which is closer to 2 years.
drafted 2 years apart.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I take Backlund, but it's by an ever so slight margin.

 

[4thline]

Flip a coin, abstain. This poll would benefit from a "too close to call/ neither is significantly better option", should be the landslide winner.

Add Brian Little and we'd have the theoretical C group that could challenge for the cup without a "true number 1"

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Flip a coin, abstain. This poll would benefit from a "too close to call/ neither is significantly better option", should be the landslide winner.

Add Brian Little and we'd have the theoretical C group that could challenge for the cup without a "true number 1"

Little? He is WAY behind Backlund and Kadri.

 

[tony d]

Kadri.

 

[La Masse]

They are pretty comparable, good job OP

Backlund is better defensively despite Kadri improving in the area last year and is probably a safer choice. Kadri is a year younger and has a higher offensive ceiling with a edge to his game. It really depends on team needs but for the Leafs I like Kadri in a #3 role with the ability to play #2 if need be

 

[garyturner3]

I would not be surprised Kadri returns to more of his norms next season, closer to 50-55 points. 61 points is a career high. By far his best season in a full season in his career. He also doesn't kill PIMS so he is overrated defensively. Backlund is far better defensively, offensively I think they are even if Kadri returns back to his norms. Kadri by a sliver perhaps. Kadri does create PP's. But also takes dumb PIMS now and then. Backlund kills PIMS and he has great CF and SF numbers. This one is tight. Not sure right now.

He also had 44 points in 48 games in the shortened season which is a 75 point pace. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say Kadri's norm may be a 60 point player as opposed to 50 points. I don't put a lot of stock in the 2015-2016 totals because it was an absolute dumpster fire in Toronto. Agreed that Kadri is overrated defensively though. I've yet to see anything that really impresses me about his defensive game other than the ability to play the pest role and get under a guy's skin. There's no metric out there that backs up him being a great defender.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

He also had 44 points in 48 games in the shortened season which is a 75 point pace. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say Kadri's norm may be a 60 point player as opposed to 50 points. I don't put a lot of stock in the 2015-2016 totals because it was an absolute dumpster fire in Toronto. Agreed that Kadri is overrated defensively though. I've yet to see anything that really impresses me about his defensive game other than the ability to play the pest role and get under a guy's skin. There's no metric out there that backs up him being a great defender.

This is why I referenced a full season. I don't know how much stock to put into that 48 shortened season. Alot of players numbers were putting up inflated numbers from their usual norms. PA Parenteau had 43 points, Matt Moulson had 44, Stepan 44, Kunitz 52. Ect...

Kadri went from a previous high of 50 to 61 points, partly riding a hot PP. Based on his historical norms I think his numbers will normalize. I agree he is one of the better pests in the NHL who is still good at drawing PIMS. Something that I thought would lessen with his reputation with refs, but he is still getting the calls. That's a bonus to a team that leaned on their PP a lot last year. Also agree he is nothing special defensively.

 

[garyturner3]

This is why I referenced a full season. I don't know how much stock to put into that 48 shortened season. Alot of players numbers were putting up inflated numbers from their usual norms. PA Parenteau had 43 points, Matt Moulson had 44, Stepan 44, Kunitz 52. Ect...

Kadri went from a previous high of 50 to 61 points, partly riding a hot PP. Based on his historical norms I think his numbers will normalize. I agree he is one of the better pests in the NHL who is still good at drawing PIMS. Something that I thought would lessen with his reputation with refs, but he is still getting the calls. That's a bonus to a team that leaned on their PP a lot last year. Also agree he is nothing special defensively.

And a lot of players put up inflated numbers from their usual norms in full seasons every year as well....Marchand is a perfect example this year. The fact that is was shortened is irrelevant in my opinion. I'll never understand why people discredit shortened seasons like they mean nothing. It's 48 games, not some 15 game sample size. Kadri finished 21st in league scoring that year because he had a fantastic season. It wasn't just inflated shooting percentages that helped him that year; I remember watching him and being impressed how much he controlled the game that year. He hasn't returned to that level since in my opinion. Players have up and down seasons regularly. The point is Kadri has had two excellent seasons in the last 5 years that show he's more than capable of being a 60 point player. Is it a guarantee? No. But I definitely like the odds because he's always had the talent and he's coming off a 61 point season which wasn't even his best season.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Easily Backlund, elite defensive 2C.

Kadri is the better offensive player but defensively he can't hold Backlund's jockstrap.

He sure did hold McDavid's jockstrap

I would not be surprised Kadri returns to more of his norms next season, closer to 50-55 points. 61 points is a career high. By far his best season in a full season in his career. He also doesn't kill PIMS so he is overrated defensively. Backlund is far better defensively, offensively I think they are even if Kadri returns back to his norms. Kadri by a sliver perhaps. Kadri does create PP's. But also takes dumb PIMS now and then. Backlund kills PIMS and he has great CF and SF numbers. This one is tight. Not sure right now.

Agreed. He's a 53-57 normal type of player. The good thing is his quality of teammates can only stay the same/go up, his zone starts can only get easier, and top-pairing D matchup with his line is getting better. Looking forward to next season.

Reasons why Kadri doesn't PK (I don't think he should PK either even though he's great defensively):
1) His acceleration is too slow, especially laterally. If you're a PK forward you have to be somewhat fast laterally.
2) He's never had the chance. Carlyle/Wilson thought he was a one-dimensional attitude-having forward. Babcock showed everyone that Kadri was already an all-around player that just needed confidence given to him. However Komarov, Brown, Hyman, Moore, Marleau are locks for the PK leaving no room for anyone else other than a faceoff specialist (I.e Bozak comes for faceoff and leaves as soon as that's won).

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Little? He is WAY behind Backlund and Kadri.

So the guy who's been on pace for more points and less reliant on special team for points than both Backlund and Kadri for their entire career and takes the hard matchups for the Jets (Scheifele was allowed to be sheltered thanks to Little) is way behind? Come on this is even worse than your underration of Giordano.