Player Discussion Micheal Ferland

[Johnny Hoxville]

Forget draft position, forget previous rankings on our board. Go by performance, what you see, and what the numbers tell you.

Explain why Ferland isn't a top 5 prospect for the Flames? It's hard to argue against it.

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[slappipappi]

Becuase his upside isn't that high.

If all it took to suceed in the NHl was good stats, drafting would be simple.

It's up to scouts to decide which players skills will translate best to the world's highest level.

Ferland's skills are such the many think he will regress at the highest level. That's what they are paid to do.

Lucky for Flames fans they are sometimes wrong. Even spectacularly wrong.

But the Flames haven't even been that high on him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I'm gonna add to, everything you hear from management is that they love this kid! He's big, he's truculent, he plays the game the way they like, he can score, he's got a good attitude, and other than Smith we have no one remotely like him. From all accounts, the Flames view this kid as a big part of our future.

 

[Calculon]

I think he's underrated. At the very least, his upside should be seen as a middle-six agitator with a respectable offense rather than a 4th line energy role player.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Becuase his upside isn't that high.

If all it took to suceed in the NHl was good stats, drafting would be simple.

It's up to scouts to decide which players skills will translate best to the world's highest level.

Ferland's skills are such the many think he will regress at the highest level. That's what they are paid to do.

Lucky for Flames fans they are sometimes wrong. Even spectacularly wrong.

But the Flames haven't even been that high on him.

His upside isn't known yet, this is a player that really didn't start playing serious hockey until about the age of 15-16. He's a player that's still evolving.

Good size, good skating, good physicality, good shot, good hands, I agree all traits that translate poorly to the NHL.

Show me a quote of one scout that says his skills will regress.

And yes, the Flames are very high on him.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

They love him, and he has a very desirable skillset. However, all reports are that people seem to think he'll top out as a 3rd line power forward type of player.

I like to think he has top 6 upside, but nevertheless, that's not what's been printed on him. And when ranking prospects, people tend to place significant importance on ceiling - so guys like Bennett, Granlund, etc. are ranked higher up even though they may not have the same size/skill/aggressiveness combination.

 

[Volica]

I simply think he's not ranked very high because of a couple things.
A) His draft position, people get boners about our first rounders; but honestly, it's these guys that people wrote off/didn't notice who are making the biggest impact these days. Johnny Hockey, Ferly, Granny, Brodie & Bouma were all later picks that are looking to be real gooders.

B) His upside is that of a possible 15-20 goal scorer, 30-40 point power winger on the third line (think Glenny in his prime). It's hard to get excited over that, when you have:
Johnny Hockey (potential star), Bennett (potential Star), Monahan (20+ goals in his first year), Sven (has shown top 6 winger potential, in the NHL AND AHL) or Poirier (who was a monster in junior, and most thought he'd be looking for a job this year in the NHL level this year).

Then you factor in Klimmer, Wother, Gillies and our future HoFer Janko.

 

[CraigsList]

I've been impressed with our scouts with the draft picks outside of the first round.

 

[Lunatik]

Why isn't Ferland a top 5 pick?

Gaudreau, Bennett, Baertschi, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Jankowski, Gillies, McDoanld, Reinhart, Ortio, Poirier, Klimchuk

I'm not even sure Ferland would crack the top 10.

 

[tfong]

Consistency and the fact that we have other prospects with elite skill sets push him down.

I expect a David Moss type production level out of him if he sticks as a regular though.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Why isn't Ferland a top 5 pick?

Gaudreau, Bennett, Baertschi, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Jankowski, Gillies, McDoanld, Reinhart, Ortio, Poirier, Klimchuk

I'm not even sure Ferland would crack the top 10.

My point of this thread more than anything is that I think Ferland deserves some recognition and he's absolutely been a riser for us.

Those players you mentioned are considered top 10 guys (everyone knows that), but you can make an argument when taking draft status out of the equation that Ferland is more accomplished than Sven and Janko, equal to Reinhart and Granlund, and there's not enough to judge Klimchuk and Poirier.

Again, my criteria is going primarily off of performance.

 

[Anglesmith]

My point of this thread more than anything is that I think Ferland deserves some recognition and he's absolutely been a riser for us.

Those players you mentioned are considered top 10 guys (everyone knows that), but you can make an argument when taking draft status out of the equation that Ferland is more accomplished than Sven and Janko, equal to Reinhart and Granlund, and there's not enough to judge Klimchuk and Poirier.

Again, my criteria is going primarily off of performance.

He's also more accomplished than McDavid, who hasn't even been invited to a pro camp in his life.

But what does that really mean?

 

[Lunatik]

My point of this thread more than anything is that I think Ferland deserves some recognition and he's absolutely been a riser for us.

Those players you mentioned are considered top 10 guys (everyone knows that), but you can make an argument when taking draft status out of the equation that Ferland is more accomplished than Sven and Janko, equal to Reinhart and Granlund, and there's not enough to judge Klimchuk and Poirier.

Again, my criteria is going primarily off of performance.

How is he more accomplished than anyone? He has played a good 34 games in the AHL. 34 whole games! And that is ignoring is 7 god awful games to start his pro career.

Baertschi is struggling right now but he has almost as many points at the NHL level as Ferland does at the AHL level. He has easily accomplished more than Ferland.

Jankowski is a top defensive centre on his team, he was team MVP in the playoffs. Ferland has been the MVP of exactly no team. There is some debate here, based on accomplishments. But Ferland is also 2.5 years older, so is he really more accomplished?

Reinhart and Granlund were near point per game players over a full season in the AHL. They have definitely accomplished more than Ferland.

Klimchuk and Poirier haven't had a chance to prove themselves as pros yet but in the CHL they were both much better players than Ferland was at the same age.


I think you are riding Ferland's jock a little too hard with such a small sample size.

Ferland's accomplishments are more on par with Corban Knight and Ben Hanowski. Ferland has slightly better (prorated) stats and is better physically than Knight and Hanowski, but the 2 of them are better defensively and better leaders.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

He's also more accomplished than McDavid, who hasn't even been invited to a pro camp in his life.

But what does that really mean?

That's not even comparable though, really, McDavid hasn't been drafted yet so he's not even considered an NHL prospect.

There are different ways to judge a prospect as we discussed in our summer rankings. Your criteria then was to use a "Gun to your head" mentality. My point in regards to Ferland is based more off of NHL readiness and performance.

 

[CraigsList]

Well, I am hoping Ferland becomes a regular and not a prospect .

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Too early to determine.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

How is he more accomplished than anyone? He has played a good 34 games in the AHL. 34 whole games! And that is ignoring is 7 god awful games to start his pro career.

Baertschi is struggling right now but he has almost as many points at the NHL level as Ferland does at the AHL level. He has easily accomplished more than Ferland.

Jankowski is a top defensive centre on his team, he was team MVP in the playoffs. Ferland has been the MVP of exactly no team. There is some debate here, based on accomplishments. But Ferland is also 2.5 years older, so is he really more accomplished?

Reinhart and Granlund were near point per game players over a full season in the AHL. They have definitely accomplished more than Ferland.

Klimchuk and Poirier haven't had a chance to prove themselves as pros yet but in the CHL they were both much better players than Ferland was at the same age.


I think you are riding Ferland's jock a little too hard with such a small sample size.

Ferland's accomplishments are more on par with Corban Knight and Ben Hanowski. Ferland has slightly better (prorated) stats and is better physically than Knight and Hanowski, but the 2 of them are better defensively and better leaders.

Yeah, those are all good points. I am really excited about Michael though and his recent play for our AHL team. I think the thing I'm most excited about him is that he's a player that is trending upwards and I don't think he even knows how good he can be. I think he's very underrated overall and I think he has the potential to be a fixture in our top 9 for a very long time. Derek Wills always raves him and comments how management absolutely loves him and sees him as a part of our long term plans.

 

[CraigsList]

He will definitely become a fan favorite if he can be that 3rd liner that fights and can chip in 30-40 points a year. But, that's a lot to ask for, so we'll see how he does in his debut.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Why isn't he a top five forward prospect?

Because these guys have higher upside:

Baertschi (the shine is wearing off, admittedly)
Bennett
Gaudreau (soon to lose his "prospect" status)
Granlund
Jankowski
Klimchuk
Poirer

I'd also put the goalies in the system ahead of him on the depth chart, and possibly Wotherspoon & Sieloff too. While I won't be as crass as Adirondack Flames, I too suggest waiting to see how he fares over an entire season.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Yeah you guys are all making good points, should I change the title to top 10? Lol

One thing I love about FerrDaddy though is his package. The guy is big, he plays with an edge, decent passer, skates well, and maybe his best attribute is his shot. I honestly don't know what his ceiling is because he is continually developing. He could be a 4th liner, or he could lock down a top 6 spot. No can say for certain because he's still evolving as a player. As of now, I'd be pretty happy with a Glencross or Bourque type of player that's more physical. And while some of our other higher ranked prospects have higher ceilings, Ferland is a pretty safe bet to be an NHL player because of what he brings to the table. No matter what though, I like his game a lot (have for a long time) and I'm super pumped to see him.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

What I like about him is that I think his absolute floor is 4th liner. There is no way he should bust, given his attributes and skill level. And after that, as you mentioned, it feels wide open. Maybe he tops out as a bottom 6er, maybe he makes it into the top 6. He certainly doesn't have any glaring weaknesses that I've seen.

 

[CraigsList]

Granlund and Ferland had fantastic chemistry last night. If Ferland is back and ready to go for next game, I would love to see a 3rd line of Ferland - Granlund - Jooris.

 

[slappipappi]

Show me a quote of one scout that says his skills will regress.

I didn't say that his skills will regress, but his skills are such that scouts don't think they will play as well at the highest level. MY choice of words was unfortunate.

Ferland is a prospect that keeps improving.

But the question as to why he isn't ranked that highly is because his skills aren't exceptional across the board.

I thought he looked decent last night, FWIW.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I didn't say that his skills will regress, but his skills are such that scouts don't think they will play as well at the highest level. MY choice of words was unfortunate.

Ferland is a prospect that keeps improving.

But the question as to why he isn't ranked that highly is because his skills aren't exceptional across the board.

I thought he looked decent last night, FWIW.

I just haven't ever seen or heard anything from scouts saying they think his skills won't translate as well to the NHL. If anything, I think most would agree the skill set he does have in fact make him pretty much safe bet to be an NHL'er. I guess I'm just wondering where or what scouts you've heard this from.

I wish I could of seen the first 2 periods last night. I forgot to record the game and by the time I got home I was only able to see the 3rd, by all accounts Ferland looked really good.

 

[Volica]

I just haven't ever seen or heard anything from scouts saying they think his skills won't translate as well to the NHL. If anything, I think most would agree the skill set he does have in fact make him pretty much safe bet to be an NHL'er. I guess I'm just wondering where or what scouts you've heard this from.

I wish I could of seen the first 2 periods last night. I forgot to record the game and by the time I got home I was only able to see the 3rd, by all accounts Ferland looked really good.

He definitely looked solid, not out of place at all. Even had a decent scoring chance on a setup by Granny (I watched the play develop and told my buddy I was with, 'Ferly's going to get one here, look at him drive').

At this point of time, he's definitely in contention as a top 10 prospect we have. Just because he's been shown to succeed, and his skill package allows him to translate to the NHL well.

He didn't look out of place in pre-season, he hasn't looked out of place as an AHL player, barring coming into the AHL as a power-forward at 20 years old (anyone pointing to his 7 game stint to start his career is completely in the wrong here). You can look at a guy like David Backes, a **** disturbing PF, his first stint in the AHL was great, then his second year it turned out pretty poor. Or look at Dustin Brown, who was thrown into the NHL and couldn't figure it out, went back to the AHL to do it... PF's are harder to breed than a skill forward.

He's looked great, looks to be improving. The only issues with him being outside the top 10, is because our prospect pool is ridiculously strong at this point of time.