User CP>>>Edit Options>>>Thread Options>>>>50 posts per page.Scugs said:A very good point. The NHLPA was looking for this date so they can "sick" Goodenow on the NHL. I really don't know how this is going to end up. There isnt much more that anyone can say on the issue. I think the thread should be retired, since its more than 15 pages old, lol.
slats432 said:User CP>>>Edit Options>>>Thread Options>>>>50 posts per page.
Scugs said:A very good point. The NHLPA was looking for this date so they can "sick" Goodenow on the NHL. I really don't know how this is going to end up. There isnt much more that anyone can say on the issue. I think the thread should be retired, since its more than 15 pages old, lol.
EdBelfour20 said:I would hope Mr. Bettman will be making an annoucment of cancellation if their isn't a deal struck tomorrow..
Cawz said:This I dont understand. Is it a typo?
I think Bob has till tomorrow.
If theres money to be made, there will be a way to fit in a season, and expecially some sort of playoffs. Thats assuming they can come to some sort of agreement, which I dont think they can. I wish I could share in people's optimism.Tom_Benjamin said:It's over. Somehow or another most of the owner apologists on this board thought the players would concede as soon as they realized the owners were willing to lose the season. They won't. It's over.
Tom_Benjamin said:Not at all. Let's imagine Bob says, "Ooh, we finally see the light. We give! We give! Let's start negotiating. The first thing is to define revenues. Naturally we think the definition in the Levitt report is bunk. Let's agree on the auditer first. Then let's see how long it will take him to review the team books. Once his report is in, we'll have some numbers to negotiate around. Shall we again at the end of March to review the audit reports?"
It is no longer practical to negotiate the owner proposal. There are way too many acrimonious issues to be resolved that can be ignored if a revenues-salary linkage is ignored. They must be resolved before Bettman's deal can be signed. There isn't time.
If the players concede and start negotiating this there is no season. If the players don't concede there is no season because it does not look like the owners will conced either. It does not look like they will, so Goodenow will 1) Make Gary listen to their December 9th proposal again, and 2) end talks, or set a date to end talks.
It's over. Somehow or another most of the owner apologists on this board thought the players would concede as soon as they realized the owners were willing to lose the season. They won't. It's over.
Tom
wazee said:On your other points...How do you know that the NHL and NHLPA have not been working on defining revenue behind the scenes.
They could agree to play this season under the old CBA which would let them get going quicker, and would let everyone settle into the new system over the summer.
I don't have a strong feeling that it will get done...or that it won't.
If it takes until this time next year to get a deal that allows a healthy league, I am ok with that.
Tom_Benjamin said:What Fantasy Island on you living on? They are defining revenue secretly? While holding rigidly to an impasse position publicly? If they are doing this, they come to an agreement long ago. The players would have conceded at least the possibility of playing under this system. They have not given one single hint that they would ever let the owners dictate a result.
Bettman promised that no play until every "I" is dotted and every "T" crossed. If they were willing to do this, they might as well play the rest of the season under the old CBA and then go back to fighting. That's still a possibility but I doubt it now.
To dream the impossible dream...
If we are in the same spot next year, we won't be talking about losing another season, we will be talking about losing the league. At some point, franchises will start to fail. My guesses are either Pittsburgh and Phoenix first. If the players don't give up now, what makes you think they will give up in a year?
What if the owners cave this time next year? Will you be okay with that?
Tom
handtrick said:For what it is worth:
Just got off the phone with my dad, who is no hockey fan, but did negotiate labor relations agreements for General Motors for 20 years. I told him about the course of negotiations over the past month and asked him what he thought about about the "big boys" coming into the meeting tomorrow........He said that in all his years, the "big boys" never be stepped back into the negotiations unless there is something very tangible to take credit and get the glory for. He expects it to be to finalize a deal or make a final push to a settlement. He felt that if they were truly at impasse, that they would be keeping their distance away not interjecting themselves into it. He also stressed not to believe ANY press releases at this point whatsoever.
Just something to think about from a guy who has been around the bush many times in regards to labor relations bargaining agreements.
As to me.....I have got my hopes up too many times before.....I am just numb to it all anymore.....just freaking shoot us and put us out of our misery......
To take your last point first. If the owners cave this time next year, then they do. It will mean a two-tier league with folding franchises. Even though the team I cheer for will be in the first tier, it won't be as interesting as it would be if there was a level playing field, but I will still watch the games. I am a hockey fan and will remain one.Tom_Benjamin said:What Fantasy Island on you living on? They are defining revenue secretly? While holding rigidly to an impasse position publicly? If they are doing this, they come to an agreement long ago. The players would have conceded at least the possibility of playing under this system. They have not given one single hint that they would ever let the owners dictate a result.
Bettman promised that no play until every "I" is dotted and every "T" crossed. If they were willing to do this, they might as well play the rest of the season under the old CBA and then go back to fighting. That's still a possibility but I doubt it now.
To dream the impossible dream...
If we are in the same spot next year, we won't be talking about losing another season, we will be talking about losing the league. At some point, franchises will start to fail. My guesses are either Pittsburgh and Phoenix first. If the players don't give up now, what makes you think they will give up in a year?
What if the owners cave this time next year? Will you be okay with that?
Tom
futurcorerock said:Too much is adding up.... SOMETHING is going on for there to be hope.
This "season is dead" talk should be atleast halted for the time being... why would these two clowns meet? Because they represent their constituents and something will happen. What? It's already ruled out that they wouldnt cancel the season as a tandem.. so for the most obvious resolution.. they are either debating some minor issue or signing it.
Or they are taking route three, where Bettman and the BOG call Goodenow into a meeting, pull their pants down and moon him. Season over.
Why do I hope for the comical sake that route three is the one we see?
Scugs said:His job was to get the best job possible. So far, he is losing that battle...
JWI19 said:Actually your wrong. Lets say the NHLPA agrees to this proposal it's better than the ones the NHL has offered up before.
JWI19 said:Actually your wrong. Lets say the NHLPA agrees to this proposal it's better than the ones the NHL has offered up before.
I was watching the Score and they had a Lockout Segment, and it was brought to you by General Motors.handtrick said:Just got off the phone with my dad, who is no hockey fan, but did negotiate labor relations agreements for General Motors for 20 years.