Mcdavid vs Matthews (This season)

[BlueBaron]

Yes he sure does, what with all those 50 goal season.

I'm sorry you can't count. Look at his totals and get back to me. You aren't convincing Matthews isn't a good player. Your reaction is kind of over the top considering I think McDavid is the best player in the world but that is just not enough, no one else can be great either. This is an illness.

A respected source? Are you not knowledgeable enough about hockey that you can form your own opinions after watching them play?

I'm sure you can ask many former and current plays or hockey staff "who is the best player in the NHL?" and all of them will say "Connor McDavid", and I'm willing to bet quite a few will add "not close" right afterwards. Just last night the Sportsnet panel, owned by the Leafs, were saying how nobody in the league is close to McDavid.

So you speak out your opinion and say anyone knowledgeable thinks this but never says it. Good talk.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

people really pretending that the 51 goals in 50 games centre was an absurd opinion during the season lol

McDavid has beasted in the playoffs and absolutely deserves to be #1 on any list at this point.

It is an absurd opinion. Matthews had an impressive stat line. Good for him. Watch McDavid play. He literally is the Edmonton Oilers offense. Like Matthews is a constant threat when he's on the ice, but McDavid is literally creating the offense all by himself. He is the closest thing we've seen in hockey to a one-man-team. And he is virtually unstoppable. He wills things to happen on the ice. Just last night he had a play where he was getting hooked by a Flames defender behind the net, and still made a one-handed pass to his teammate in the slot for a goal. You cannot defend McDavid. You can shut down Matthews. McDavid dragged his team to a playoff spot this year, and now he's continuing to drag them in the playoffs. The fact that the media made Matthews out to be the Hart favorite is a complete joke. He had a phenomenal season, but McDavid is currently playing on another level right now. We haven't seen this kind of domination from one player since Lemieux.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I'm sorry you can't count. Look at his totals and get back to me. You aren't convincing Matthews isn't a good player. Your reaction is kind of over the top considering I think McDavid is the best player in the world but that is just not enough, no one else can be great either. This is an illness.


So you speak out your opinion and say anyone knowledgeable thinks this but never says it. Good talk.

Oh some of them say it.

McDavid 'head and shoulders' best player in NHL, Sutter says

"Bottom line, he's head and shoulders the best player in the League," Sutter said. "I don't think there's one player who stops Connor McDavid. He's a tough guy to stop. You just try to slow him down within the rules, limit his chances."

 

[BlueBaron]

Oh some of them say it.

McDavid 'head and shoulders' best player in NHL, Sutter says

Hey it's a bit vague but I'll give it to you. McDavid is 1000 times better than Matthews.

 

[PostBradMalone]

I'm sorry you can't count. Look at his totals and get back to me. You aren't convincing Matthews isn't a good player.

I never said he wasn't a good player. You were the one who claimed he "scores like Ovechkin". Ovechkin had 4 50+ goal seasons in his first five years in the NHL. Matthews only just hit that mark this year. If you disagree with those totals please point out where I'm wrong.

Your reaction is kind of over the top considering I think McDavid is the best player in the world but that is just not enough, no one else can be great either. This is an illness.

Other players can be great, sure, but it's an illness to believe someone who is at his absolute peak yet still only finished 17 points back of their competition is "95%" as good as the other guy. It would be like me saying Kadri is only 5% worse than Matthews for some imagined reason despite finishing as many points back. Come back to me when Auston leads the league in points even once and we can have this conversation.

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

It is an absurd opinion. Matthews had an impressive stat line. Good for him. Watch McDavid play. He literally is the Edmonton Oilers offense. Like Matthews is a constant threat when he's on the ice, but McDavid is literally creating the offense all by himself. He is the closest thing we've seen in hockey to a one-man-team. And he is virtually unstoppable. He wills things to happen on the ice. Just last night he had a play where he was getting hooked by a Flames defender behind the net, and still made a one-handed pass to his teammate in the slot for a goal. You cannot defend McDavid. You can shut down Matthews. McDavid dragged his team to a playoff spot this year, and now he's continuing to drag them in the playoffs. The fact that the media made Matthews out to be the Hart favorite is a complete joke. He had a phenomenal season, but McDavid is currently playing on another level right now. We haven't seen this kind of domination from one player since Lemieux.

When context is properly applied: QoC, imaginary goals(xgf), then you'll see that the points separation is merely an illusion. You can reach a more accurate perspective, some just take longer than others. (many high iq posters, eg @zeke and @DekesforDays, are already ahead of the curve)

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Hey it's a bit vague but I'll give it to you. McDavid is 1000 times better than Matthews.

How is "head and shoulders the best player in the league" vague? I mean seriously man, what are we doing here.

 

[BlueBaron]

I never said he wasn't a good player. You were the one who claimed he "scores like Ovechkin". Ovechkin had 4 50+ goal seasons in his first five years in the NHL. Matthews only just hit that mark this year. If you disagree with those totals please point out where I'm wrong.



Other players can be great, sure, but it's an illness to believe someone who is at his absolute peak yet still only finished 17 points back of their competition is "95%" as good as the other guy. It would be like me saying Kadri is only 5% worse than Matthews for some imagined reason despite finishing as many points back. Come back to me when Auston leads the league in points even once and we can have this conversation.

There are threads for this if you need to be educated on his scoring rate. Washington fans see it so maybe you can.

 

[JimmyApples]

Matthews can score all the regular season goals he wants, but he will never put his team on his back the way McDavid is doing. He’s a fine player but there’s no comparison, especially when the games get important.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

262 people voted wrong. I get it happens.

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

When context is properly applied: QoC, imaginary goals(xgf), then you'll see that the points separation is merely an illusion. You can reach a more accurate perspective, some just take longer than others. (many high iq posters, eg @zeke and @DekesforDays, are already ahead of the curve)

I've reevaluated my position. I no longer believe that Matthews>McDavid (for now). 70ish goal scorers, with elite two-way play, are very rare. So rare I don't think any have ever existed. Matthews will rightly win the Hart and McDavid the Lindsay. As for their trajectories in the future, well it is not a certainty that McDavid will remain #1 and Matthews #2.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

When context is properly applied: QoC, imaginary goals(xgf), then you'll see that the points separation is merely an illusion. You can reach a more accurate perspective, some just take longer than others. (many high iq posters, eg @zeke and @DekesforDays, are already ahead of the curve)

They are ahead of the curve indeed!

There are some embarrassing takes in this thread so I can’t quite decide if this intentional parody or not.

 

[Aceboogie]

Woof is all I can say

 

[Akrapovince]

Hey it's a bit vague but I'll give it to you. McDavid is 1000 times better than Matthews.

A little hyperbolic don’t you think? It’s the Sidney Crosby vs Ovechkin thing all over again.

Some years Ovechkin will be better than Crosby, but the majority of the years Crosby will sit on top.

We have never seen a player score in the modern era at the pace Matthews did. We have seen Kucherov replicate a similar season to McDavid. (Stammers 60 was impressive too though).

I’m the biggest McDavid d rider on this board but they are a tier apart. Not head and shoulders.

 

[Frosty415]

A little hyperbolic don’t you think? It’s the Sidney Crosby vs Ovechkin thing all over again.

Some years Ovechkin will be better than Crosby, but the majority of the years Crosby will sit on top.

We have never seen a player score in the modern era at the pace Matthews did. We have seen Kucherov replicate a similar season to McDavid. (Stammers 60 was impressive too though).

I’m the biggest McDavid d rider on this board but they are a tier apart. Not head and shoulders.

More like Draisaitl vs McDavid

I wouldn't even out Matthews on their tier yet

 

[Akrapovince]

More like Draisaitl vs McDavid

I wouldn't even out Matthews on their tier yet

Yeah that’s why I was conservative and put a tier apart.

McDavid
__________

Draisatl
Kucherov
__________

MacKinnon
Matthews

Obviously excluding the Makar/Hedman type of defensemen.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I've been told (by a small but vocal group of fans that shall remain unnamed) that secondary assists and empty net points don't count. By that measure, McDavid had 12 "actual" points this past series. You'd have to count every playoff game Matthews has played over the past three years (a span of 19 games) in order for him to pull ahead of what McDavid just did in this one series.

A quick update. Excluding secondary assists and empty net points (a small number of posters have told me these don't really count), McDavid has 22 "actual" points through two rounds.

In order for Auston Matthews to match this, you'd have to go back to April 21st, 2017 (a span of more than five years and 35 playoff games) - to match what McDavid has produced in 12 games.

(EDIT - this doesn't mean that McDavid necessarily deserves the Hart. I think an argument can be made that Matthews had the better regular season. But if it's more of an abstract question - "who's the better player"? - I think it's almost impossible to pick Matthews).

 

[Rengorlex]

I think Matthews deserves the Hart, but McDavid's season overall is better due to the playoffs. This likely isn't a question though if McDavid and Draisaitl had been stacked up in the regular season like Matthews and Marner were.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I dunno Matthews had a magical season. that 51 in 50 was incredible and maybe can beat McDavid for the Hart maybe not. but its too hard to argue that Matthews is better than McDavid especially after seeing the difference come playoffs time
i originally voted Matthews but feels wrong now

 

[Hockeyholic]

A little hyperbolic don’t you think? It’s the Sidney Crosby vs Ovechkin thing all over again.

Some years Ovechkin will be better than Crosby, but the majority of the years Crosby will sit on top.

We have never seen a player score in the modern era at the pace Matthews did. We have seen Kucherov replicate a similar season to McDavid. (Stammers 60 was impressive too though).

I’m the biggest McDavid d rider on this board but they are a tier apart. Not head and shoulders.

Not really.

The gap between prime Crosby and Ovechkin is way smaller than the gap between McDavid & Matthews.

Also, to other posters, the Hart is a regular season award.

Neither McDavid or Matthews winning it would be some crime.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I've reevaluated my position. I no longer believe that Matthews>McDavid (for now). 70ish goal scorers, with elite two-way play, are very rare. So rare I don't think any have ever existed. Matthews will rightly win the Hart and McDavid the Lindsay. As for their trajectories in the future, well it is not a certainty that McDavid will remain #1 and Matthews #2.

Matthews is not a 70 goal scorer lmfao Jesus Christ

 

[BlueBaron]

A little hyperbolic don’t you think? It’s the Sidney Crosby vs Ovechkin thing all over again.

Some years Ovechkin will be better than Crosby, but the majority of the years Crosby will sit on top.

We have never seen a player score in the modern era at the pace Matthews did. We have seen Kucherov replicate a similar season to McDavid. (Stammers 60 was impressive too though).

I’m the biggest McDavid d rider on this board but they are a tier apart. Not head and shoulders.

I agree.

 

[BlueBaron]

I never said he wasn't a good player. You were the one who claimed he "scores like Ovechkin". Ovechkin had 4 50+ goal seasons in his first five years in the NHL. Matthews only just hit that mark this year. If you disagree with those totals please point out where I'm wrong.



Other players can be great, sure, but it's an illness to believe someone who is at his absolute peak yet still only finished 17 points back of their competition is "95%" as good as the other guy. It would be like me saying Kadri is only 5% worse than Matthews for some imagined reason despite finishing as many points back. Come back to me when Auston leads the league in points even once and we can have this conversation.

You sound a lot like a Crosby fan talking to an Ovechkin fan. Auston is not the greatest point getter. Probably never will be. But he is going to win a lot of Rockets. Ovechkin passed the torch albeit begrudgingly. There does not appear to be an active player anywhere near as good at scoring goals. He even beats the guy playing with the best player in the world.

I don't know what magic percentage you have in your head but I'm going to say it's a bit weird you need more than an acknowledgement that he's best. You need to lord every percentage point over me?

I'm really trying to be positive with Oiler fans and to enjoy their historic season and epic playoff run. I love McDavid. He's on my team Canada. This kind of stuff is toxic.

My player is good to, so is MacKinnon Kucherov Makar Draisaitl just to name the obvious. Trying to get us all to say McDavid is some magical number better doesn't seem very productive does it?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Anyone that voted Matthews is wrong and should feel bad.

 

[Ezpz]

Matthews is not a 70 goal scorer lmfao Jesus Christ

He's not elite defensively either.