McDavid or Matthews

[Drytoast]

Who in your mind had the better season last year? Who was the better player last year? Did McDavid take home all that hardware last season just because he was super fast?

I think he earned the top scoring title.

But I think there was a defense man in Ottawa that should have earned the top player award. (but we tend to focus on the flash as made mention earlier in this thread). Or even Crosby for having a better complete hockey game.

(I honestly don't understand what the NHLPA were thinking?)

I also believe the media is really pushing this kid hard as the face of hockey Canada. Because they need a replacement for Crosby. So yeah, he's going to get top player vote. But I wouldn't have given it too him because some of his game is severely lacking. Unless we now define top player as some one who can pass the puck while skating fast? Do those two skill encompass ALL of hockey? I don't think so.

 

[jetsjetsjets]

I think he earned the top scoring title.

But I think there was a defense man in Ottawa that should have earned the top player award. (but we tend to focus on the flash as made mention earlier in this thread). Or even Crosby for having a better complete hockey game.

(I honestly don't understand what the NHLPA were thinking?)

I also believe the media is really pushing this kid hard as the face of hockey Canada. Because they need a replacement for Crosby. So yeah, he's going to get top player vote. But I wouldn't have given it too him because some of his game is severely lacking. Unless we now define top player as some one who can pass the puck while skating fast? Do those two skill encompass ALL of hockey? I don't think so.

These last few posts have been some of the worst player evaluations I've seen in awhile. The myth that McDavid is somehow bad defensively needs to die. He's had more of an impact defensively than Matthews by a wide margin. Has Matthews been better in faceoffs, take/giveaways? Absolutely. Shot and goal suppression? Not a chance.

You're either blinded by being an obvious Matthews fan or maybe it’s just McDavids speed and hands are so good that it makes people actually believe his defensive impact is a weakness. For example, if in an imaginary world McDavid was 10/10 offensive impact and 8/10 defensive while Matthews was 8/10 in both, people would tell themselves Matthews is better because they see a glaring difference between McDavids impacts. In this example they're both at the same level. In reality, McDavid is better at both ends of the ice. He causes more goals for his team and prevents more from the other team. The fact that McDavid uses speed vs Matthews using size may look good for you're eye test, but the numbers don't lie.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I think it's going to blow up in peoples' faces to declare anything based on 5 games. That said I think people were pretty wrong to expect Matthews to stagnate or regress. 30 goals and 70 points were low projections in the offseason and they're low now

 

[daver]

I think he earned the top scoring title.

But I think there was a defense man in Ottawa that should have earned the top player award. (but we tend to focus on the flash as made mention earlier in this thread). Or even Crosby for having a better complete hockey game.

(I honestly don't understand what the NHLPA were thinking?)

I also believe the media is really pushing this kid hard as the face of hockey Canada. Because they need a replacement for Crosby. So yeah, he's going to get top player vote. But I wouldn't have given it too him because some of his game is severely lacking. Unless we now define top player as some one who can pass the puck while skating fast? Do those two skill encompass ALL of hockey? I don't think so.

So how many points did McDavid need to score last year to cover the deficiencies in his game? 110? 120?

 

[McFlyingV]

I think it's going to blow up in peoples' faces to declare anything based on 5 games. That said I think people were pretty wrong to expect Matthews to stagnate or regress. 30 goals and 70 points were low projections in the offseason and they're low now

Good post, I agree stagnation/regression was a poor prediction.

These last few posts have been some of the worst player evaluations I've seen in awhile. The myth that McDavid is somehow bad defensively needs to die. He's had more of an impact defensively than Matthews by a wide margin. Has Matthews been better in faceoffs, take/giveaways? Shot and goal suppression? Not a chance.

You're either blinded by being an obvious Matthews fan or maybe it’s just McDavids speed and hands are so good that it makes people actually believe his defensive impact is a weakness. For example, if in an imaginary world McDavid was 10/10 offensive impact and 8/10 defensive while Matthews was 8/10 in both, people would tell themselves Matthews is better because they see a glaring difference between McDavids impacts. In this example they're both at the same level. In reality, McDavid is better at both ends of the ice. He causes more goals for his team and prevents more from the other team. The fact that McDavid uses speed vs Matthews using size may look good for you're eye test, but the numbers don't lie.

Also great post, some horrible posts in here the past few pages in terms of McDavid's ability. Quite clear these people don't watch him.

 

[Bedards Dad]

These last few posts have been some of the worst player evaluations I've seen in awhile. The myth that McDavid is somehow bad defensively needs to die. He's had more of an impact defensively than Matthews by a wide margin. Has Matthews been better in faceoffs, take/giveaways? Shot and goal suppression? Not a chance.

You're either blinded by being an obvious Matthews fan or maybe it’s just McDavids speed and hands are so good that it makes people actually believe his defensive impact is a weakness. For example, if in an imaginary world McDavid was 10/10 offensive impact and 8/10 defensive while Matthews was 8/10 in both, people would tell themselves Matthews is better because they see a glaring difference between McDavids impacts. In this example they're both at the same level. In reality, McDavid is better at both ends of the ice. He causes more goals for his team and prevents more from the other team. The fact that McDavid uses speed vs Matthews using size may look good for you're eye test, but the numbers don't lie.

So your first paragraph, may want to look at the numbers. I don't know where to find shot suppression vs generation, but their Corsi was nearly identical last year, with Matthews 57.1 and McDavid 57.6. If someone can find generation/suppression stats I'll add them in.

Matthews
2016/17
FO% - 46.8
Takeaways - 76
Giveaways -44

2017/18
FO% - 58.3
Takeaways - 5
Giveaways - 3

Career
FO% - 47.3
Takeaways - 81
Giveaways - 47

McDavid
2016/17
FO% - 43.1
Takeaways - 76
Giveaways - 54

2017/18
FO% - 40.9
Takeaways - 3
Giveaways - 3

Career
FO% - 42.3
Takeaways - 79
Giveaways - 57

Your second paragraph is opinion, which is fine. I also believe over their careers McD has been better so far, he was unreal last year. That said I do not believe it is a forgone conclusion it will always stay that way. I mean thats exactly why we watch. If it was always known the game would be boring.

 

[McFlyingV]

So your first paragraph, may want to look at the numbers. I don't know where to find shot suppression vs generation, but their Corsi was nearly identical last year. If someone can find generation/suppression stats I'll add them in.

Matthews
2016/17
FO% - 46.8
Takeaways - 76
Giveaways -44

2017/18
FO% - 58.3
Takeaways - Could not find info
Giveaways - Could not find info

Career
FO% - 47.3
Takeaways - Could not find info
Giveaways - Could not find info

McDavid
2016/17
FO% - 43.1
Takeaways - 76
Giveaways - 54

2017/18
FO% - 40.9
Takeaways - Could not find info
Giveaways - Could not find info

Career
FO% - 42.3
Takeaways - Could not find info
Giveaways - Could not find info

Your second paragraph is opinion, which is fine. I also believe over their careers McD has been better so far, he was unreal last year. That said I do not believe it is a forgone conclusion it will always stay that way. I mean thats exactly why we watch. If it was always known the game would be boring.

Naturalstattrick has /60 stats 5 on 5 for shots against, GA, fenwick against, corsi against, scoring chances against, high danger scoring chances against. McDavid was ahead on all last season (significantly for a bunch of them). Did not look into relative, but you could look yourself.

 

[Drytoast]

So how many points did McDavid need to score last year to cover the deficiencies in his game? 110? 120?

You can't mask deficiencies in your complete hockey game. There is no number.

 

[McFlyingV]

You can't mask deficiencies in your complete hockey game. There is no number.

Why do those deficiencies on the defensive side not show up in any stat? (aside from face-off%)

 

[Drytoast]

These last few posts have been some of the worst player evaluations I've seen in awhile. The myth that McDavid is somehow bad defensively needs to die. He's had more of an impact defensively than Matthews by a wide margin. Has Matthews been better in faceoffs, take/giveaways? Shot and goal suppression? Not a chance.

You're either blinded by being an obvious Matthews fan or maybe it’s just McDavids speed and hands are so good that it makes people actually believe his defensive impact is a weakness. For example, if in an imaginary world McDavid was 10/10 offensive impact and 8/10 defensive while Matthews was 8/10 in both, people would tell themselves Matthews is better because they see a glaring difference between McDavids impacts. In this example they're both at the same level. In reality, McDavid is better at both ends of the ice. He causes more goals for his team and prevents more from the other team. The fact that McDavid uses speed vs Matthews using size may look good for you're eye test, but the numbers don't lie.

What are the numbers out of curiosity?

 

[Bedards Dad]

What are the numbers out of curiosity?

Mcdavid or Matthews

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Did someone really say mcdavid is better at faceoffs? What the f***

 

[Drytoast]

Mcdavid or Matthews

McDavid's. The poster said to me "the numbers do not lie" But I'm not sure what numbers he was referring too? Surely it wouldn't be that subjective 8/10 grades and the like that he graded McDavid with?

That wouldn't make for much of a counter argument.

 

[Tkachuky]

Look, I hate the Oilers. But McDavid is really amazing. This is McDavid easily. Every time he plays against the Flames he dominates.

 

[McFlyingV]

McDavid's. The poster said to me "the numbers do not lie" But I'm not sure what numbers he was referring too? Surely it wouldn't be that subjective 8/10 grades and the like that he graded McDavid with?

That wouldn't make for much of a counter argument.

Advanced stats are easily accessible for all. Feel free to do your own research. He's not wrong, the stats last season showed McDavid gave up less defensively in every category I've looked at.

 

[Felstead]

Hey HfBoards...

It’s coming, you know it’s coming... it’s happening before your eyes, everyone is talking about it, some are delusional to admit it, many are starting to embrace it.

Now.. it’s time to face it.. this kid is a stud, he’s pushing not just the Top 3 players in the game, but for the potential “BEST” player in the game. Small sample size? Nah.

The new age NHL has Auston written all over it. The size, the phonebooth skill, the IQ.

You can doubt/deny what is being said, but I dare you to take a look and read at all the articles written by all the hockey minds. The proof is in the pudding folks. I know, I know, it’s hard to believe.. trust me. Don’t like it? Don’t read it... but maybe you should just embrace/accept it.

 

[Drytoast]

Did someone really say mcdavid is better at faceoffs? What the ****

Conor is currently sitting at 40.1 percent in faceoffs. (generational for sure!)

https://www.nhl.com/player/connor-mcdavid-8478402?stats=career-r-nhl&season=20172018

Matthews isn't the best either but has a much more respectable 58.3...

https://www.nhl.com/player/auston-matthews-8479318?season=20172018

That's just one stat.

 

[Bedards Dad]

Advanced stats are easily accessible for all. Feel free to do your own research. He's not wrong, the stats last season showed McDavid gave up less defensively in every category I've looked at.

What he said was.

He's had more of an impact defensively than Matthews by a wide margin. Has Matthews been better in faceoffs, take/giveaways? Shot and goal suppression? Not a chance.

He was wrong on faceoffs, take/giveaways and I can't find shot/goal suppression numbers, and straight up Corsi has them neck and neck.

 

[Drytoast]

Advanced stats are easily accessible for all. Feel free to do your own research. He's not wrong, the stats last season showed McDavid gave up less defensively in every category I've looked at.

And this season?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Conor is currently sitting at 40.1 percent in faceoffs. (generational for sure!)

https://www.nhl.com/player/connor-mcdavid-8478402?stats=career-r-nhl&season=20172018

Matthews isn't the best either but has a much more respectable 58.3...

https://www.nhl.com/player/auston-matthews-8479318?season=20172018

That's just one stat.

yeah it's not even that important but he just pulled out of his ass that McDavid must be better without even looking. It's so strange to do that. McDavid doesn't even take faceoffs when he's with Draisaitl because he's not very good at them

 

[bauer]

What is McDavid doing at 4:17. Controller disconnected?

speaking of which, nothing will ever beat this one. it still gets me every time.

 

[McFlyingV]

And this season?

Sample size. This shouldn't need to be said.

 

[Drytoast]

Sample size. This shouldn't need to be said.

That's totally fair.

But Matthews has stepped it up a notch from what he was last year. And McDavid has come out the gate flat footed.

Let's talk in 20 games!

 

[McFlyingV]

That's totally fair.

But Matthews has stepped it up a notch from what he was last year. And McDavid has come out the gate flat footed.

Let's talk in 20 games!

Finally we agree on something.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Hey HfBoards...

It’s coming, you know it’s coming... it’s happening before your eyes, everyone is talking about it, some are delusional to admit it, many are starting to embrace it.

Now.. it’s time to face it.. this kid is a stud, he’s pushing not just the Top 3 players in the game, but for the potential “BEST” player in the game. Small sample size? Nah.

The new age NHL has Auston written all over it. The size, the phonebooth skill, the IQ.

You can doubt/deny what is being said, but I dare you to take a look and read at all the articles written by all the hockey minds. The proof is in the pudding folks. I know, I know, it’s hard to believe.. trust me. Don’t like it? Don’t read it... but maybe you should just embrace/accept it.