Confirmed with Link: Max Pacioretty and Dylan Coghlan to Carolina for Future Considerations (AKA. Cap Dump)

[Boom Boom Apathy]

sure ya did. you had to learn the physics of what made the ball move faster and where the weakness in the AI existed in order for you to maximize your chances of beating the program. plus the idea that the system could have optimized itself to the extent that it was literally unbeatable was always there. so the fulfillment of victory is only as gratifying as the knowledge that you only beat the system running at 30% of its optimization or something.

I don’t recall ever playing against the system. It was always against my brother or sisters.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

what ruined video games for me as an adult was the realization that my actions made no relevant difference in the outcome of anything. it's all just a series of code and the enemies could theoretically be perfect if the game so decided, but it allows you to be competitive while walking you down a pretty limited corridor of options to advance the plot. no matter if there are fifty choices or two, there's a funnel to direct you to the outcome. even in open world type games, every interaction was intended to be found. you've discovered nothing unique, especially since the day after the game comes out someone cracks the code and finds essentially every possible coded detail of the game. especially when games are plot based, it just feels like earning access to the next chapter of an interactive book with the added tedium of needing to unlock the next chapter with logic puzzles no more or less insightful than a captcha and scaled to the difficulty of your choosing. it's like reading but with more steps. I was actually somewhat sad when I put that all together because I knew it meant I would never enjoy a story driven video game ever again. PvP became the only true variable outcome, and even then to some degree only a reflection of time investment and animation memorization and engine exploitation.

apologies for the depressing aside you all wanted. hockey things

Yeah as opposed to when you go to your local AMC movie theater and yell at your favorite Avenger to punch or kick the bad guy and he always listens to you and does what you say.

 

[Vagrant]

Yeah as opposed to when you go to your local AMC movie theater and yell at your favorite Avenger to punch or kick the bad guy and he always listens to you and does what you say.

your experience differs from that?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

your experience differs from that?

I don’t watch movies. At this point my only consistent narrative-based entertainment comes from live productions, where with a dozen eggs cleverly snuck past security and a well-rested throwing arm, I can be confident that I can completely influence the outcome of the show from the balcony.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I don’t watch movies. At this point my only consistent narrative-based entertainment comes from live productions, where with a dozen eggs cleverly snuck past security and a well-rested throwing arm, I can be confident that I can completely influence the outcome of the show from the balcony.

LARP

 

[Navin R Slavin]

what ruined video games for me as an adult was the realization that my actions made no relevant difference in the outcome of anything. it's all just a series of code and the enemies could theoretically be perfect if the game so decided, but it allows you to be competitive while walking you down a pretty limited corridor of options to advance the plot. no matter if there are fifty choices or two, there's a funnel to direct you to the outcome. even in open world type games, every interaction was intended to be found. you've discovered nothing unique, especially since the day after the game comes out someone cracks the code and finds essentially every possible coded detail of the game. especially when games are plot based, it just feels like earning access to the next chapter of an interactive book with the added tedium of needing to unlock the next chapter with logic puzzles no more or less insightful than a captcha and scaled to the difficulty of your choosing. it's like reading but with more steps. I was actually somewhat sad when I put that all together because I knew it meant I would never enjoy a story driven video game ever again. PvP became the only true variable outcome, and even then to some degree only a reflection of time investment and animation memorization and engine exploitation.

apologies for the depressing aside you all wanted. hockey things

Or, you could play them as though they are interactive movies. No one complains after watching a movie or reading a book that they didn't have agency; they just enjoy the story.

Also: maybe you should talk to somebody.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Or, you could play them as though they are interactive movies. No one complains after watching a movie or reading a book that they didn't have agency; they just enjoy the story.

Yep. This complaint is hilarious to me because you can make it about almost any form of curated entertainment.

“I hated that escape room - I only solved the mystery they wanted me to solve!”

“I really didn’t like that jigsaw puzzle, the pieces only fit together to make the picture that was on the front of the box.”

Etc.

If anything, you could argue that video games are one of the more flexible ways of doing this, since while the narrative moves in a general direction, most of the time you have flexibility in the way you approach it (do this side quest first, train your character as a warrior instead of a mage, etc.)

 

[Lempo]

If anything, you could argue that video games are one of the more flexible ways of doing this, since while the narrative moves in a general direction, most of the time you have flexibility in the way you approach it (do this side quest first, train your character as a warrior instead of a mage, etc.)

This is exactly why the grievance has some legitimacy IMO. You are kind of let on by the game industry that this is a form of entertaiment where you are in control (unlike the passive linear entertainment aficiado morons). But, scratch the surface, and you find out that the scenes you get are what the programmer has preconceived and made for you. Some games are very offensive with there being but a straight pipeline from one cutscene to another where you presumably control things, but not really. The programmer has knowingly programmed every possible action, and what isn't programmed, you can't do.

Expecting anything else isn't very smart obviously, because the technology isn't quite there yet to make a game where they just set the ground rules for the universe and let you loose to do just anything.

(Other than this immense simulation where we are in, of course.)

 

[A Star is Burns]

Boy am I glad I can just turn off my brain and have some fun. Even sometimes when I start listing off plot holes in a movie or book or game or something, if I enjoyed it enough, and it's not too egregious, I just suspend my disbelief a bit and move on. What some of you are going on about sounds miserable.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

This is exactly why the grievance has some legitimacy IMO. You are kind of let on by the game industry that this is a form of entertaiment where you are in control (unlike the passive linear entertainment aficiado morons). But, scratch the surface, and you find out that the scenes you get are what the programmer has preconceived and made for you. Some games are very offensive with there being but a straight pipeline from one cutscene to another where you presumably control things, but not really. The programmer has knowingly programmed every possible action, and what isn't programmed, you can't do.

Expecting anything else isn't very smart obviously, because the technology isn't quite there yet to make a game where they just set the ground rules for the universe and let you loose to do just anything.

(Other than this immense simulation where we are in, of course.)

Counterpoint: Minecraft. Open world, do what you want, a plot of sorts if you want to follow it, or you can completely ignore it, you can make worlds with your friends or by yourself. No Man's Sky: same idea, but in space.

There are tons of different games. It's an incredibly rich ecosystem of ideas.

To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy: "If you dislike all games because their outcomes are predetermined, you might be a Calvinist."

 

[dogbazinho]

My OCD, choice and an overwhelming amount of information ruins games for me. I can get stuck in optimal build loops in almost all games that aren't a quick rogue-like/lite format. I've got like 10K hours in EU4 where I just run the first 20 years of various difficult starts.

 

[Vagrant]

Also: maybe you should talk to somebody.

I do go on sabbatical at times for fear of giving this impression. I know of others that do the same. the fear of lacking the self-awareness to know when your inane opinions migrate towards unhinged drivel is a real one. the lines blur at times, but I mean no harm.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I do go on sabbatical at times for fear of giving this impression. I know of others that do the same. the fear of lacking the self-awareness to know when your inane opinions migrate towards unhinged drivel is a real one. the lines blur at times, but I mean no harm.

Just wanna make sure you're ok. Creeping lack of meaning is one of those warning signs I see in myself from time to time.