Matthews + Marner vs Barzal + Laine

[Laineux]

Why would you do that? Why not compare their actual rookie year and actual sophomore year?

Because if that's the case, then Barzal is clearly the fourth best player on this list since he couldn't even make the NHL at 19, while the other three were already productive NHL players.

Because a year of age difference really does matter for players this young. That Laine was able to score 36 goals at the same age Marner wasn't ready to play in NHL should be taken into account. That's the biggest reason I have Matthews clearly ahead of Barzal as well. Of course Barzal has been so good that it matters less and less as he continues to impress, but it's still worth to note.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If you talk about durability Laine can be one hit away from another concussion or do you conveniently want to forget about that happening to him in his rookie season.

Laine has 41 goals in 71 games. This is the high mark for players in this thread. He also has 66 pts in 71 games. Surely will surpass 69. If the poll was last year. You could then cite Laine's concussion. But as we saw with the Calder, missed games do not count for voters. Barzal already has 72 pts in 71 games. This is another high mark for the 4 players here. So right now.

Laine => Matthews
Barzal >> Marner

Is the only logical choice.

Not what ifs.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Laine has 41 goals in 71 games. This is the high mark for players in this thread. He also has 66 pts in 71 games. Surely will surpass 69. If the poll was last year. You could then cite Laine's concussion. But as we saw with the Calder, missed games do not count for voters. Barzal already as 72 pts in 71 games. This is another high mark for the 4 players here. So right now.

Laine => Matthews
Barzal >> Marner

Is the only logical choice.

Not what ifs.

The fact that Matthews was the first one to score 40 goals in 82 games during his rookie season makes it the high mark, plus that was when he played Centre which is very hard for a rookie.

 

[Yasuo]

Why would you do that? Why not compare their actual rookie year and actual sophomore year?

Because if that's the case, then Barzal is clearly the fourth best player on this list since he couldn't even make the NHL at 19, while the other three were already productive NHL players.

Laine is one year younger and produce more what do you want more ?

Laine career ppg is 0,9
Marner career ppg is 0,8

Thats the difference between a 65 points player and a 74 points player for 82 gp while been 1 year younger.
Goalscoring wise you are comparing a 44 goals scorer to a 21 goals scorer.

Unless you think a 0.7 ppg player (57 points/82gp) is equal to Marner?

 

[LeafsNation75]

You can mention whatever you want. And you have, trust me.

I know I have mentioned it, however I remember being told +/- is a useless stat when I mentioned Matthews is currently +23. However it's ok for you to mention examples when Marner was a - player? Isn't that being hypocritical?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The fact that Matthews was the first one to score 40 goals in 82 games during his rookie season makes it the high mark, plus that was when he played Centre which is very hard for a rookie.

Put down the keyboard for a split second and respond to what I wrote in reply to you quoting me ad nauseum today. You are jumpimg from post to post just posting stuff off the wall. If you want top do this. Why even quote posters? You seem to be on a mission to post whatever you think regardless of what you brought up and replied to. It's a joke!

 

[LeafsNation75]

Put down the keyboard for a split secomd an respond to what I wrote in reply to you quoting me ad nauseum today. You are jumpimg from post to post just posting stuff off the wall. If you want top do this. Why even quote posters?

Look ever since Laine scored 40 goals you are acting like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. However you always seem to discount that Auston Matthews was first player among the 2016 draft class to do that.

 

[YesCubed]

Barzal/ lainL will score more goals but will also give up more. I think Mathews/Marner will give up less goals. For overall play I go with Matthews and Marner.

the other team would never touch the puck. so no, they wouldn't

 

[BruinLVGA]

I know I have mentioned it, however I remember being told +/- is a useless stat when I mentioned Matthews is currently +23. However it's ok for you to mention examples when Marner was a - player? Isn't that being hypocritical?

It would be hypocritical if I were the one to tell you that "+/- is a useless stat". Seeing that I have not, nope it's not hypocritical.

And by the way, it's not even what I was saying. What I was saying is that small performance samples (16 games? Lol) are not good to measure a player.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It would be hypocritical if I were the one to tell you that "+/- is a useless stat". Seeing that I have not, nope it's not hypocritical.

And by the way, it's not even what I was saying. What I was saying is that small performance samples (16 games? Lol) are not good to measure a player.

I guess sample sizes to you is the Bruins defeating a team they might play in the playoffs and assuming they will win a 7 game series against them.

 

[BruinLVGA]

I guess sample sizes to you is the Bruins defeating a team they might play in the playoffs and assuming they will win a 7 game series against them.

I never assumed anything about anyone winning a 7 games series against whoever. You are putting words in my mouth, AGAIN...

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Look ever since Laine scored 40 goals you are acting like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. However you always seem to discount that Auston Matthews was first player among the 2016 draft class to do that.

Again, you are all over this thread with you jumping from post to post random posting. Put down the keypad man. No one can keep up. Certainly not me. But you keep on quoting me in an effort to derail this poll thread. For the record, I voted Matthews in a Poll here for Calder last season since Laine missed games. And I refused to project that into the actual results.

Just like this year. In this poll.

Laine > Matthews (I was being nice to allow for = but you have changed my mind on that. It's just > now)

Barzal >>> Marner

 

[Patrik Barkov]

I'd go with Barzal and Laine but Marner is getting underrated here. He's doing great and is still among the best young guys in the league.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I don't get how Laine is a "GENERATIONAL" goal-scorer.

Anders Lee last year and this year, is right behind him...is he a generational goal scorer too?

That term Generational is used way too much.

Laine COULD be a Generational goal-scorer but to put him that already is a bit much.

Especially when you look at the talent on the Jets up-front helping Laine.

Does Barkov have that same help? How about Marner? (On Marner's line anyway) etc.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't get how Laine is a "GENERATIONAL" goal-scorer.

Anders Lee last year and this year, is right behind him...is he a generational goal scorer too?

That term Generational is used way too much.

Laine COULD be a Generational goal-scorer but to put him that already is a bit much.

Especially when you look at the talent on the Jets up-front helping Laine.

Does Barkov have that same help? How about Marner? (On Marner's line anyway) etc.

Considering that Matthews was the first one to score 40 goals last season, if next season he scores 40 or more goals, doesn't that put him in the same class as Laine being a generational goal scorer?

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Considering that Matthews was the first one to score 40 goals last season, if next season he scores 40 or more goals, doesn't that put him in the same class as Laine being a generational goal scorer?

I think we'll have to wait a few years to see, but I don't think it's fair for anyone to rate anyone compared to another when one of the players has been hurt for anything longer then a month in a season. As I've found out far too often. I will say when both were healthy wasn't Matthews leading in goals? Both guys have some pretty amazing offensive forwards around each other, but considering Laine scores on the PP a lot and Matthews lead 5 on 5 scoring last year, I think it's unfair to say Laine is better...if you put any of the Bark0v-Eichel-Matthews on that Jets PP there numbers would blow up.

Not to take away from Laine and his sick shot.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think we'll have to wait a few years to see, but I don't think it's fair for anyone to rate anyone compared to another when one of the players has been hurt for anything longer then a month in a season. As I've found out far too often. I will say when both were healthy wasn't Matthews leading in goals? Both guys have some pretty amazing offensive forwards around each other, but considering Laine scores on the PP a lot and Matthews lead 5 on 5 scoring last year, I think it's unfair to say Laine is better...if you put any of the Bark0v-Eichel-Matthews on that Jets PP there numbers would blow up.

Not to take away from Laine and his sick shot.

Prior to Matthews shoulder injury he was leading Laine in total goals despite previously missing 10 games earlier this season.

 

[Yasuo]

Considering that Matthews was the first one to score 40 goals last season, if next season he scores 40 or more goals, doesn't that put him in the same class as Laine being a generational goal scorer?

Laine has the higher career gpg on a larger sample size and he's almost 1 year younger..... so there's that

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

I don't get how Laine is a "GENERATIONAL" goal-scorer.

Anders Lee last year and this year, is right behind him...is he a generational goal scorer too?

That term Generational is used way too much.

Laine COULD be a Generational goal-scorer but to put him that already is a bit much.

Especially when you look at the talent on the Jets up-front helping Laine.

Does Barkov have that same help? How about Marner? (On Marner's line anyway) etc.

You know who else is behind him in goals since he entered the league? The entire league

Lol like what in the hell are you talking about, since last season Laine has had he most goals in the league and he’s still a teenager. I guess you could look at it like ”Laine is only 1st in goals since he’s entered the league, he’s not that good”...

Laine has the third best goalscoring total all-time for a Teenager and has missed 9 games last season and isn’t even done this season.

Laine has had 16 and a half minutes per game and hasn’t played a full game on Scheifeles Wing this season(he’s mostly played on the Wing of a guy who’s currently being reverted to Wing this season, Bryan Little)

Laine has not been helped out one bit this season...

Barkov has 23 minutes(most in the league amongst forwards) per game that should help anyone’s stats, compared to Laines 16.4 minutes per game...

Marner has been playing with a much better Center(s) and an equally good Winger all season...

This is the issue with guys like you, you hate him so much that you ignore his success and don’t know a damn thing about him.

 

[LeafsNation75]

it's a shame Marner didn't make the NHL sooner, but I think that was mainly to do with physical readiness rather than playing ability. Laine was probably more physically developed at 13 than Marner is now

If anything I think Marner playing that 1 more year in London helped his game and it's not like it was a waste considering he was the OHL MVP, OHL scoring leader, Memorial Cup MVP and etc.

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

Again, you are all over this thread with you jumping from post to post random posting. Put down the keypad man. No one can keep up. Certainly not me. But you keep on quoting me in an effort to derail this poll thread. For the record, I voted Matthews in a Poll here for Calder last season since Laine missed games. And I refused to project that into the actual results.

Just like this year. In this poll.

Laine > Matthews (I was being nice to allow for = but you have changed my mind on that. It's just > now)

Barzal >>> Marner

And this is why many people have a hard time taking your opinions seriously. You let your hatred for Leaf fans influence your views.

It’s fine if you believe something; changing your mind because you don’t like someone shows how much conviction you have in those views.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

And this is why many people have a hard time taking your opinions seriously. You let your hatred for Leaf fans influence your views.

It’s fine if you believe something; changing your mind because you don’t like someone shows how much conviction you have in those views.

This is a hockey forum. Anyone is free to post their opinions and or change their minds. If you have to resort to posting about posters and not the post on the thread, than it's probably time to use the ignore button or not post on the Mainboard if you cannot stomach neutral posters opinions. Because I tell you what, I am going to post factually and what I believe here whether you or others like it or not. Based on my likes, I think plenty of posters like what I am posting. But I don't post for likes either. Strictly what I believe and always back up in stats and facts.

Now is their anything in my post that you want to discuss?

Laine 41 goals in 71 games > Matthews 40 in 82
Barzal 72 points in 71 games > Marner 61 points career high

1. Add onto this Barzal and Laine are natural matches as elite playmaking Center and elite goal scorer. It's an easy choice to most. Do you disagree with people who decided to vore Laine and Barzal in this thread? Keep the replies to hockey if you please.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Again, you are all over this thread with you jumping from post to post random posting. Put down the keypad man. No one can keep up. Certainly not me. But you keep on quoting me in an effort to derail this poll thread. For the record, I voted Matthews in a Poll here for Calder last season since Laine missed games. And I refused to project that into the actual results.

Just like this year. In this poll.

Laine > Matthews (I was being nice to allow for = but you have changed my mind on that. It's just > now)

Barzal >>> Marner

Prior to all this you said how the Leafs made a mistake selecting Marner 4th overall and said they should have picked Barzal instead.

So you always had Barzal ahead no matter what the situation would be.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Laine is one year younger and produce more what do you want more ?

Laine career ppg is 0,9
Marner career ppg is 0,8

Thats the difference between a 65 points player and a 74 points player for 82 gp while been 1 year younger.
Goalscoring wise you are comparing a 44 goals scorer to a 21 goals scorer.

Unless you think a 0.7 ppg player (57 points/82gp) is equal to Marner?

Where did I say anything about equal? I'm simply saying I'm not seeing a massive gap between them, production-wise, in their first two seasons.

My issue, overall, seems to be a lot of posts in this thread make it sound like there's Matthews, Laine, and Barzal waaaaay up here, and then there's a massive gap to Marner.

As far as even mentioning goals, why? That's disingenuous to even compare Laine and Marner based on goals, since one is a goal scorer and the other a playmaker. That would be like concluding Matthews is vastly superior to Barzal because Matthews scored 40 last year and Barzal has 19, ignoring the fact one is a goal scorer and the other is a playmaker.

 

[Antropovsky]

It would be hypocritical if I were the one to tell you that "+/- is a useless stat". Seeing that I have not, nope it's not hypocritical.

And by the way, it's not even what I was saying. What I was saying is that small performance samples (16 games? Lol) are not good to measure a player.

Marner's average career point per game is .87, while Laine's is .90. Next you might take into context average time on ice over the last 2 seasons, Laine's averages out to 16.98, while Marner's is 16.285.

Seems to me that your looking at the short term... not me.

I don't even care about the stats, I'm more referring to the hype of Barzal and Laine right now.

Marner is pacing Laine in two seasons, and is pacing Patrick Kane's first two seasons.. I saw a recent stat where he was pacing a lot a few hof players in his early career all the while having less ATOI then most on the list (and likely playing with worse linemates)... yet he's already being written off as a tier below Laine and Barzal....

Laine and Barzal are playing great... but the hype is out of this world.