Speculation: Matt Duchene Megathread pt3 - All News/Proposals Go Here

[MinJaBen]

Yeah well if that was doable, it should have been done a long time ago. But I would also imagine that Hanifin would be a Hab already if that were in the cards given that Bergevin also was looking at LHDs and obviously took a hard look at trading Galchenyuk...

But I don't see it.

IMO the Canes would only give up Hanifin for a bonafide top tier center and Galchenyuk is a way worse option when it comes to that in comparison to Duchene. Still think they would rather move him for Duchene than Galchenyuk (extra year or not) but ultimately decided against both...

But sure. If that is doable than get Francis on the line.

But I really don't see it and don't think you ever make a huge trade like that with the intention of immediately flipping the main asset elsewhere unless it is a pre-approved 3 way kind of deal..

This is why the whole Hamonic stuff made 0 sense.

The Lightning did that this year at the deadline with Steit, grabbing him from the flyers for Filppula and then moving him to the Penguins. Vegas did the same thing with the Canes twice this year for Blackhawks players. I can't say how much of the negotiations in those trades were discussed before the trades with both parties, but it does happen. And if the Avs were to do that now, who's to say that all three teams haven't discussed it.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Well, maybe in Sakic's talks with other GM's who have defencemen he covets, he heard one too many times that the sticking point was the length of contract Duchene had left. Maybe trading Duchene for Galchenyuk(+?) is the first of a two part trade where he then flips Galchenyuk to a team like the Canes for Hanifin? Not saying it would happen or that I would do that particular trade, but I'm not Francis and maybe that extra year is enough to make it happen.

I've been saying this for months. I doubt it's an option now though. Seems like this would have happened already. Carolina in particular would probably have preferred to traded Hanifin earlier so that they could sign or trade for another top4 Dman.

Why trade Duchene for a guy with only 1 exta year on his contract who has not even found his position who will probably end up being a winger down the road and IMO is simply an inferior player to Duchene. Even as a center he would not be a good complement to MacKinnon down the middle at all..

What does that accomplish?

Just to get the drama over with? No thank you.

Sakic tried to trade him for a quality D for years. If he now settles for a winger, (who does not really help us fill our biggest needs at all) he might as well just fire himself afterwards...

If he somehow gets a 1st out of it by adding not too much from the Avs side, I could live with it but straight up?
No thanks...

1) 3 years is better than 2. And I'm not one to act like we won't re-sign him.

2) Not worried about his position. We just need talent. I prefer him on the wing actually because I prefer more of a 2way C behind MacK.

3) I think Galchenyuk will be the better player going forward. He is coming into his prime and I think he will do better away from the circus that is Montreal

Like you said, he has been trying to get a Dman for years. What do you suggest? He keep trying something that hasn't worked for years? At some point you have to look at different options.

Just because Duchene is part of the topic of conversation, doesn't mean that everything I say must be directly related to him. In this context, I meant it as paying the likely asking price of the Senators shiny D prospect, which would probably be significant. I'm guessing there are some self proclaimed Avs fans around here who would jump at the chance to get Chabot + 1st for Duchene, and maybe Sens fans would accept it, so it would be considered "fair value" according to HF standards, but I think that's either severely over valuing Chabot, or severely undervaluing Duchene, or a little bit of both. Prospects do have a tendency of getting severely overvalued here, and a lot of people only care about last year and how they can use it to devalue the player they desperately want. I think the Avs should get at least one more good piece, if not more, because Duchene is still a ~60 pt C with elite FO skills, regardless of last year. He's earned the benefit of the doubt that last year was a fluke, so I don't understand why so many self proclaimed Avs fans are so eager to trade him for less than he's rightfully worth. And, yes, that includes you.

Self proclaimed fan? Get the **** off your high horse. You kissing Sakic's ass and bowing down to his every word doesn't make you any more of a fan. It just makes you a delusional Sakic homer. Most of us care more about the current and future Avs playing on the ice than some former idol.

Show me one post were I said we should trade him for less than he is worth. Show me one post where I have used last year to devalue him (I've argued the opposite many times in fact). Your defense of Sakic is ridiculous. You have done nothing but spewed massive hyperbole and now your just making **** up about what I think.

 

[leeroggy]

Not if the Habs first priority was getting a stronger #1C. Duchene may be what the Habs front office covets more at this point. Serg's trade for Drouin earlier may have changed that, but maybe not.

So why would Carolina deal with you if Duchene for Hanifin is acceptable to Sakic? After all Francis should certainly be able to see Duchene is better for him than Galchenyuk is when Carolina is also looking for a Top center.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Funny how you list their size like that means anything, but don't mention how Galchenyuk, apparently, isn't suited for C, which is the main reason you guys want Duchene so bad.

Funny how you targeted just one of many stats that I presented? The point was to show how I would not trade Galchenyuk for Duchene just because Duchene plays center. These two are very close in value and I prefer to keep Galchenyuk who is on a cheaper contract for one more year, is younger, and is trending upwards in stats.

I still would like the Habs to acquire Duchene but not for Galchenyuk.

Just because we want to improve our top 2 center depth, doesn't mean we should make desperate trades. If that is your logic, go use it against someone else. We will take our chances with Galchenyuk.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This was obvious months ago when GMMB traded Sergachev. There's no fit between these two teams for a Duchene trade anymore.

Unless Sakic changes his mind off getting a defender back and GMMB decides to trade Galchenyuk for someone who can actually play center, but I don't see Sakic leaving his ask for a defender unless he absolutely has his back against a corner. While he's getting close to that point, I fully believe Sakic will take Duchene into the season. And I'm not buying any of this 'Duchene won't report' nonsense.

Montreal just doesn't have the pieces anymore.



Montreal sending their final offer has very little to do with Sakic liking it and accepting. I'm not sure why you think that equates to a deal getting done today. I'm sure plenty of teams have sent their finals offers to Sakic by this point.

It works two ways. You still think by this point you are getting the Sergachev return? At some point, Sakic takes the best available offer. Could be from Montreal or with another team but saying the Habs have nothing to offer when we have all our 1st round picks and multiple 2nd's as well as prospects that you can use in building around MacKinnon is unreasonable. Are you seriously still living on the Galchenyuk, Sergachev, & 1st return for Duchene? If so it's ridiculous, and I suspect its only with the fans and Sakic is way more realistic in trade negotiations vs what you are saying!

 

[MinJaBen]

So why would Carolina deal with you if Duchene for Hanifin is acceptable to Sakic? After all Francis should certainly be able to see Duchene is better for him than Galchenyuk is when Carolina is also looking for a Top center.

Well, three things here: first, multiple people have reported, including Francis himself in a tangential way, that contract length matters when moving a controlled asset. I don't know if the two vs. three years of contract control is enough of a difference, but maybe it changes the dynamic if the cost to acquire is also lower. Second, I don't think, and maybe Francis shares my opinion, that it is a slam dunk that over the course of the remaining years of the contracts, that Duchene is the obviously superior player between Galchenyuk and Duchene. Finally, Hanifin has yet to be resigned and there are some reasons to believe he may not be as easy to resign as Slavin and Pesce were. If during the intervening time between when Francis was unwilling to move him at all and now he has learned some things due to the negotiations, maybe that plays a role as well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So why would Carolina deal with you if Duchene for Hanifin is acceptable to Sakic? After all Francis should certainly be able to see Duchene is better for him than Galchenyuk is when Carolina is also looking for a Top center.

If Hanifin was on the table, the deal would of been done. What you are really saying is we have Hanifin so Sakic should be calling us instead of Montreal because they don't have Sergachev anymore. We won't give you Hanifin but because we have him, you should negotiate with us?

The whole point as to why Duchene is still with the Avs and not traded yes is because the Sergachev and Hanifin types were never on the table to begin with! Open your eyes. Sakic has to work with other trade packages and they are likely 1st round picks and prospects not like the Sergachev type.

 

[Ararana]

It works two ways. You still think by this point you are getting the Sergachev return? At some point, Sakic takes the best available offer. Could be from Montreal or with another team but saying the Habs have nothing to offer when we have all our 1st round picks and multiple 2nd's as well as prospects that you can use in building around MacKinnon is unreasonable. Are you seriously still living on the Galchenyuk, Sergachev, & 1st return for Duchene? If so it's ridiculous, and I suspect its only with the fans and Sakic is way more realistic in trade negotiations vs what you are saying!

Once again, I know it's hard for you, I don't want to get into the Segachev/Duchene thing. It's pointless now. Even Avs fans thought that Galchenyuk + Sergachev was ludicrous.

I also think we're getting to the point where Sakic is going to have to take the best offer. I'm saying so many other teams would have to sit on their hands for Montreal to be the best offer. You already spent your only real attractive asset on a top 6 guy. I truly do hope he works out at center, I love me some Drouin, but I'm not betting on that.

Columbus is still the best fit IMO. Murray gets a lot of **** on these boards but a Murray package is still better than anything Montreal can come up with. Murray may not be great but he's a LHD who immediately walks into the Avs top 4, most likely next to Barrie.

Sucks for Dutchy, he made it very clear Montreal was one of his favorite teams. But Sakic has to do right by the Avs.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Once again, I know it's hard for you, I don't want to get into the Segachev/Duchene thing. It's pointless now. Even Avs fans thought that Galchenyuk + Sergachev was ludicrous.

I also think we're getting to the point where Sakic is going to have to take the best offer. I'm saying so many other teams would have to sit on their hands for Montreal to be the best offer. You already spent your only real attractive asset on a top 6 guy. I truly do hope he works out at center, I love me some Drouin, but I'm not betting on that.

Columbus is still the best fit IMO. Murray gets a lot of **** on these boards but a Murray package is still better than anything Montreal can come up with. Murray may not be great but he's a LHD who immediately walks into the Avs top 4, most likely next to Barrie.

Sucks for Dutchy, he made it very clear Montreal was one of his favorite teams. But Sakic has to do right by the Avs.

My apologies for bringing up Sergachev when you brought him up in the post I replied to.

Drouin (with term to his contract) and who is proven in the NHL >>> Sergachev who is not proven in the NHL. Nice try. Tampa might with this trade long term but it's likely because of the extra 2nd round pick (if Sergachev plays less than 40 games next year)

When you say the Habs have nothing to offer you are living on the Sergachev, Hanifin, Murray type return where they are proven NHL defenseman and with term as a potential return for Duchene. It's very rare for NHL GM's to trade away these assets for player with not much term to their contracts. But yeah, you can talk about the ROR trade all you want. Happens all the time eh? How's Zadorov working for you anyways? Once you realize that Sakic is going to bring in multiple 1st round picks and 2nd tier prospects as a return, you will realize that pretty much every team is in on the negotiations. Turning away any team is foolish!

But yeah... keep going on that dream of acquiring a proven young defenseman with term or under RFA control. That plan (at least what some of fans are thinking the plan is) is working out for you eh?

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Funny how you targeted just one of many stats that I presented? The point was to show how I would not trade Galchenyuk for Duchene just because Duchene plays center. These two are very close in value and I prefer to keep Galchenyuk who is on a cheaper contract for one more year, is younger, and is trending upwards in stats.

I still would like the Habs to acquire Duchene but not for Galchenyuk.

Just because we want to improve our top 2 center depth, doesn't mean we should make desperate trades. If that is your logic, go use it against someone else. We will take our chances with Galchenyuk.

Why would I "target" the other things listed? Those were fair points. Age and contract favor Galchenyuk. The production is equal. Size doesn't really change their values though. And you didn't say anything about playing center. Your point wasn't very clear. Looked like you just listed reasons to not make the trade, while ignoring the main reason to make the trade. Seemed more like bias propaganda than someone making a point.

So now that would be a desperate trade? You even say they are very close in value just a couple sentences before.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Self proclaimed fan? Get the **** off your high horse. You kissing Sakic's ass and bowing down to his every word doesn't make you any more of a fan. It just makes you a delusional Sakic homer. Most of us care more about the current and future Avs playing on the ice than some former idol.

Show me one post were I said we should trade him for less than he is worth. Show me one post where I have used last year to devalue him (I've argued the opposite many times in fact). Your defense of Sakic is ridiculous. You have done nothing but spewed massive hyperbole and now your just making **** up about what I think.

That's right, anyone who agrees with anything Sakic has done must be a delusional homer and not care about the future of the team. It's apparently impossible to use critical thinking and see anything positive in the long term plan that Sakic is apparently trying to implement, building through the draft and not trying to rush the rebuild by making stupid trades that don't address the team's needs. We should all just agree with the assessment of HF's hive mind that Sakic is a horrible GM and can't possibly do anything right, regardless of any evidence that might contradict those claims, like the vastly improved prospect pool. Sorry if my willingness to see how his long term plan works out before judging his performance doesn't align with HF's hatred of him due to a lack of short term results and a few minor missteps.

And, you may not have used last year to devalue him (I'm not going to go back through every one of your posts), but that doesn't mean that you haven't adjusted what you'd be willing to take as a result of other people doing it. How many packages have you been willing to accept, just in this thread, that do absolutely nothing to address the Avs most pressing need? Juulsen (a RD) + 2 likely late firsts + Scherbak + Plekanec? 2 1sts or a good forward prospect? Neither one is going to fix the Avs LHD issues, but that's OK because the value is good compared to the plethora of crap proposals we've seen, right?

 

[Brock Radunske]

Did he get traded yet for a young top 4 defenseman, blue chip prospect and two top-10 picks?

 

[Rebels57]

This makes too much sense for Montreal.

Bergevin's brain doesn't work like most others.

 

[Rebels57]

That's right, anyone who agrees with anything Sakic has done must be a delusional homer and not care about the future of the team. It's apparently impossible to use critical thinking and see anything positive in the long term plan that Sakic is apparently trying to implement, building through the draft and not trying to rush the rebuild by making stupid trades that don't address the team's needs. We should all just agree with the assessment of HF's hive mind that Sakic is a horrible GM and can't possibly do anything right, regardless of any evidence that might contradict those claims, like the vastly improved prospect pool. Sorry if my willingness to see how his long term plan works out before judging his performance doesn't align with HF's hatred of him due to a lack of short term results and a few minor missteps.

Guy with IWantSakicAsMyGM username and picture of Sakic as profile picture is defending Sakic. Color me surprised

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

"anyone who agrees with anything Sakic has done"



At least no one can accuse him of not being a fan.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Guy with IWantSakicAsMyGM username and picture of Sakic as profile picture is defending Sakic. Color me surprised

Oh wow, you're so clever, trying to use my user name and avatar picture, both of which I set up in 2011 and don't plan on changing, to invalidate the context of my post. You're literally the first person to do that, you should be so proud.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Oh wow, you're so clever, trying to use my user name and avatar picture, both of which I set up in 2011 and don't plan on changing, to invalidate the context of my post. You're literally the first person to do that, you should be so proud.

He's a RebelBully, what do you expect?

 

[AvsGuy]

Why yall bein kids right now

 

[Azrael89]

So does he show up to camp in a week or get suspended? I'm leaning towards he gets suspended.

 

[mikeyp24]

Ok question just for the hell of it. Would you rather...


Let Duchene sit out until his contract is over.

Or

Get one of the offer you guys turned down in the thread IE NFL, MUY, CBJ, etc...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So does he show up to camp in a week or get suspended? I'm leaning towards he gets suspended.

I think he'll probably be at camp, because that's the smartest move for his career going forward. Sitting at home doesn't help convince other teams that last year was a fluke. If he really wants to get traded, he needs to help himself.

 

[Azrael89]

Ok question just for the hell of it. Would you rather...


Let Duchene sit out until his contract is over.

Or

Get one of the offer you guys turned down in the thread IE NFL, MUY, CBJ, etc...

Does anybody really believe he would miss two years of hockey? He loses $12 Million in those two years plus the chance at a pay raise on a long term contract to end his career. That would be unheard of levels of stupid.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

So does he show up to camp in a week or get suspended? I'm leaning towards he gets suspended.

I believe he will report. It does Duchene no good to sit out.

 

[Azrael89]

I think he'll probably be at camp, because that's the smartest move for his career going forward. Sitting at home doesn't help convince other teams that last year was a fluke. If he really wants to get traded, he needs to help himself.

I hope your right. It just seems like everything involving the Avs turns into a complete gong show these days.

 

[BatVader]

So does he show up to camp in a week or get suspended? I'm leaning towards he gets suspended.

He'll be at camp.
Just no guarantee that it will be Colorado's camp
I'm leaning towards him getting traded before camp starts.