Player Discussion: Mathew Barzal

[BarBeauWahlDobLok]

So Bellows who has proven nothing at NHL level just passes up Beau?

When you're coach, you can make the lines any way that you want to.

 

[C24]

Yeah, that's not how lines work... He's not "passing" him.

If he is automatically placed onto a higher line he has passed him.

 

[C24]

When you're coach, you can make the lines any way that you want to.

Yea, because all coaches pencil players into the top 6 who have not proven a thing at NHL level like Isles fans do.

 

[C24]

Yeah, that's not how lines work... He's not "passing" him.

So there is no difference between playing on the bottom six than the top six ye wise one?

 

[PK Cronin]

So there is no difference between playing on the bottom six than the top six ye wise one?

I guess Kunitz passed Malkin for all those years he was in Pittsburgh.

 

[C24]

I guess Kunitz passed Malkin for all those years he was in Pittsburgh.

That has nothing to do with inserting a rookie that has not proven a thing a NHL level into the top 6.

 

[PK Cronin]

That has nothing to do with inserting a rookie that has not proven a thing a NHL level into the top 6.

That has nothing to do with your original post.

 

[C24]

That has nothing to do with your original post.

Sure it does.

 

[PK Cronin]

I see you can insult me though. Don't dish it out and whine when you get it back.

I didn't insult you.

 

[PK Cronin]

So Bellows who has proven nothing at NHL level just passes up Beau?

If he is automatically placed onto a higher line he has passed him.

So there is no difference between playing on the bottom six than the top six ye wise one?

That has nothing to do with inserting a rookie that has not proven a thing a NHL level into the top 6.

Sure it does.

No, your original argument was very clear in that a player who is dropped to a lower line has been passed by players placed above him on a higher line. Your emphasis was that Beauvillier was passed by Bellows because Bellows was placed on a higher line. Bringing up Kunitz and Malkin was an example of a player being placed on a lower line, despite not having been passed by the inferior player. You then pivot to making it about Bellows' inexperience and that's why he shouldn't be in the top 6, not that he passed Beauvillier.

You can have an issue with an inexperienced player being inserted into the top 6, but simply because he's on a higher line than another player doesn't mean he passed that other player.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I disagree, I watched him play in the WHL all four years. The mistakes he made in that 1st cup of coffee were clearly nerves and he could have easily played in the NHL.

Did he end up benefiting from the extra year? Yes, but he didn't just go back to work on "fundamentals" -- he got a little bit stronger, a little bit better defensively, cut back on some of his bad habits, etc. He made incremental progress in a lot of different areas, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have done the same thing under the right coach in the NHL.

Ultimately he's doing the same this year. A lot of incremental progress throughout the year as he's gained more experience. I'm not going to harp against it too much because it worked out for him in the end, when you're that talented and hard working it always does. But taking a penalty by touching the puck while in the penalty box and then being benched for it is not "fundamentals" it's just a stupid rookie mistake. Every subsequent mistake resulted in more Cappy punishment so his confidence went downhill fast. My point is that those 8 games weren't a good indicator of his readiness or lack thereof because he was completely mishandled.

I said this a long time ago, and I'll say it again. If Barzal had started game 1 for the Isles instead of Beau, i'm 100% confident that Beau would have been in Juniors and Barzal in the NHL all season. Beau made the same mistakes Barzal did, but because he had the first game in, he got rid of his cold feet in time to seize a spot and not look back. Barzal would have done the same thing. It was just the luck of the draw really.

However, Konk, you have to admit isn't it better than Barzal didn't have to endure a season with Capuano since he was an idiot? You might say it was a blessing in disguise. What if he had put up 50+ points and then this year turned into a Strome year....

 

[LeapOnOver]

If he is automatically placed onto a higher line he has passed him. Once again you prove your clear lack of intelligence.

Well geez, if you are using the definition of 'passing' in terms of cars or two people on the sidewalk, then sure he's got Bellows passing him. In that case then, who cares? If you are using it as a measure of talent then that's not what PK is suggesting at all. I don't see the honesty in switching up definitions in order to prove your argument and then being a dick when someone calls you out on it. I noticed you still haven't commented on Kunitz Vs. Malkin other than claiming it's comparing apples to oranges when it is really comparing apples to apples.

I happen to agree though there is obvious chemistry between the three and no need to break them up just like there is still no need to take Bailey off the first line if he is here come July.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Looking ahead to next season, I'd like to see:

Bailey - Tavares - Lee
Eberle - Bazal - Bellows
Ho-Sang - Beauvillier - Ladd (because we don't have a choice with that enormous contract)
Clutterbuck - Cizikas - Matt Martin (fat chance, but Toronto aint doing anything with him)

This is all about 50-70% likely, but with Ho-Sang needing to either be here or play for another team, Brock Nelson, who is strangely useless even when he puts up a hat trick, simply doesn't it the mold here. Michael Dal Colle needs to either score goals or.... that's it; he's pretty much trade bait or a career AHL unless something changes drastically. Beauvillier has, arguably, the most versatility on this team. When drafted, it was said he could play 11 of the 12 forward positions, #1 center being the exception. And of course, we have to sign Tavares and Bailey (who I used to be so down on, but he's been fine this season).

How does this relate to Barzal? If he gets a true trigger man like Keifer Bellows, and Bellows can bring his goal scoring with him, Barzal's point total will go up.

Now, about the goaltending and defense...

For the Bellows line next season I think it looks like this

Bellows - Eansor - St Denis

 

[seafoam]

Looking ahead to next season, I'd like to see:

Bailey - Tavares - Lee
Eberle - Bazal - Bellows
Ho-Sang - Beauvillier - Ladd (because we don't have a choice with that enormous contract)
Clutterbuck - Cizikas - Matt Martin (fat chance, but Toronto aint doing anything with him)

This is all about 50-70% likely, but with Ho-Sang needing to either be here or play for another team, Brock Nelson, who is strangely useless even when he puts up a hat trick, simply doesn't it the mold here. Michael Dal Colle needs to either score goals or.... that's it; he's pretty much trade bait or a career AHL unless something changes drastically. Beauvillier has, arguably, the most versatility on this team. When drafted, it was said he could play 11 of the 12 forward positions, #1 center being the exception. And of course, we have to sign Tavares and Bailey (who I used to be so down on, but he's been fine this season).

How does this relate to Barzal? If he gets a true trigger man like Keifer Bellows, and Bellows can bring his goal scoring with him, Barzal's point total will go up.

Now, about the goaltending and defense...

Up front (assuming Tavares re-signs), I'd like to see them bring in Riley Nash and re-sign Kulemin on a Chimera-eqsue contract.

5 on 5

Lee-Tavares-Bailey
Beauvillier-Barzal-Eberle
Ladd-Nash-Ho-Sang
Kulemin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

PK

Nash-Kulemin
Cizikas-Clutterbuck
Tavares-Ladd
Barzal-Beauvillier

Four possible solid PK pairings (the latter two we'd hopefully not really have to use but are options). Nash and Ladd are solid NHLers with good all-around games that I think will be a good fit for Ho-Sang and we can take Tavares off the PK full time while adding much need scoring punch to the third line.

Assuming they keep Beauvillier on Barzal's wing (which I think they should as he's played his best hockey there), I don't see a spot for Bellows next season, and would like to move on from Nelson as he is not center material and doesn't play enough of a complete game for a third line role.

 

[C24]

No, your original argument was very clear in that a player who is dropped to a lower line has been passed by players placed above him on a higher line. Your emphasis was that Beauvillier was passed by Bellows because Bellows was placed on a higher line. Bringing up Kunitz and Malkin was an example of a player being placed on a lower line, despite not having been passed by the inferior player. You then pivot to making it about Bellows' inexperience and that's why he shouldn't be in the top 6, not that he passed Beauvillier.

You can have an issue with an inexperienced player being inserted into the top 6, but simply because he's on a higher line than another player doesn't mean he passed that other player.

LOL as I said, this is like life and death issues to you. Obviously the inexperience is why he should not pass Beau. Wow, just wow. Respond if you like, but you are not worth the time.

 

[C24]

I didn't insult you.

Sure you did. The other day you said you will bring an 8 year-old here to explain things to me.

 

[aronjudge11]

If Barzal was on the isles all last year isles make the playiffs by 5 to 8 points easily. To think otherwise is putting to much credit on coaching. These great players are great by 14 years old. I knew a division 1 soccer player who never picked up a hockey stick in college. We asked him to play deck hockey with us his 1st game he was better than all of us.

 

[SI90]

Barzal cut the flow! Let’s hope he doesn’t lose his powers.

 

[PWJunior]

Barzal cut the flow! Let’s hope he doesn’t lose his powers.

I saw the commercial for the Samson movie yesterday, hopefully Barzal is immune to the same effects of cutting the locks.

 

[Riseonfire]

Yea, because all coaches pencil players into the top 6 who have not proven a thing at NHL level like Isles fans do. So YOU are at coach level. Got it. ROFL!

But...Barzal was gifted the 2c role..........

 

[PK Cronin]

LOL as I said, this is like life and death issues to you. Obviously the inexperience is why he should not pass Beau. Wow, just wow. Respond if you like, but you are not worth the time.

So you're maintaining your position that what line a player plays on is indicative of where they are in terms of skill for said team, despite being shown otherwise.

Sure you did. The other day you said you will bring an 8 year-old here to explain things to me.

 

[C24]

But...Barzal was gifted the 2c role..........

That does not mean Beau should be bumped. Nice try.

 

[Riseonfire]

That does not mean Beau should be bumped. Nice try.

Nice try at what? You said coaches don’t pencil players into the top 6 without any proven play at the NHL level.

I swiftly and easily proved you wrong.

That said, I wouldn’t start Bellows in Beaus place next season either until Beauvillier gives the coach a reason to change the 2nd line.

Also, why are you talking like things are absolute? Everything is case by case. Heck, beau could be injured to start the season and Bellows never gives the role up.

 

[C24]

Nice try at what? You said coaches don’t pencil players into the top 6 without any proven play at the NHL level.

I swiftly and easily proved you wrong.

That said, I wouldn’t start Bellows in Beaus place next season either until Beauvillier gives the coach a reason to change the 2nd line.

Also, why are you talking like things are absolute? Everything is case by case. Heck, beau could be injured to start the season and Bellows never gives the role up.

ROFL! Another fan who takes this as if it is life or death. Who else should have been our 2nd center? Nelson, Cizkas?

 

[Riseonfire]

The point went over your head. That is on you moron. Good work on avoiding my question.

It’s no court case, but in life you get held accountable for what you say.

If we were to use your premise then Nelson should have began the year as 2C until Barzal earned it at the nhl level. Any more question hot-shot?