Speculation: Marner's progression to the teams leading scorer...

[Knightnight]

Ok...specious answer. It is entirely reasonable that a player of such a new cohort would season to higher levels of play. Remember that Mathews played a season of pro in the Swiss league before coming to the leafs. Marner came from the OHL. I am showing a snapshot of his current level. Matthews has been playing with men longer and had a higher confidence level. I suspect the gap in confidence is not as wide given Marner's play. When it really counted (playoffs) he maintained it and outperformed Matthews . Don't believe it will be maintained further? Ok...we will see in a few months when the season begins again.

Was also leading the Leafs in scoring last year and the rookie scoring race before his shoulder injury and mono. That was from Oct to end of January. Also during all of Matthews injury missed games this year he lead team in scoring at almost 1.5ppg pace. All this with 2 minutes less icetime per game than Mathews and again no empty net gravy points.

Some point totals after 159 career games:

P.Kane (2947:56) 140
Stamkos (2813:05) 137
Hall (2899:58) 136
Marner (2638:12) 130
Eichel (3112:33) 127
Tavares (2951:46) 118
MacKinnon (2765:36) 115
Draisaitl (2700:56) 104
Giroux (2645:46) 104

Eichel has basically played 30 more games. And none on the 4th or 3rd line

 

[PuckMagi]

Wait until Matthews and Marner play together...

If they get a quality LW to play with them, Marner will put up a ridiculous amount of points, and Matthews will put up a ridiculous amount of goals. I think we could see stuff that we didn't think was possible. I'm talking 70 goals for Matthews... 150 points for Marner. But they need lots of ice time... lots of PP time... and a really good LW. This would also only be possible once Marner fills out and can become more physically competitive.

 

[charliolemieux]

Was also leading the Leafs in scoring last year and the rookie scoring race before his shoulder injury and mono. That was from Oct to end of January. Also during all of Matthews injury missed games this year he lead team in scoring at almost 1.5ppg pace. All this with 2 minutes less icetime per game than Mathews and again no empty net gravy points.

Some point totals after 159 career games:

P.Kane (2947:56) 140
Stamkos (2813:05) 137
Hall (2899:58) 136
Marner (2638:12) 130
Eichel (3112:33) 127
Tavares (2951:46) 118
MacKinnon (2765:36) 115
Draisaitl (2700:56) 104
Giroux (2645:46) 104

Eichel has basically played 30 more games. And none on the 4th or 3rd line

LOL Just other day someone thought I was nuts to think Marner was comparable to Kane. Yet look at the numbers.
This kid is special.
It goes beyond his talent and his "hockey IQ", he has more heart and drive than most players.

He is like Glimour without the "Killer" part. lol
OF our 3 Wunder Kids, Marner is by far my favorite.

 

[charliolemieux]

Wait until Matthews and Marner play together...

If they get a quality LW to play with them, Marner will put up a ridiculous amount of points, and Matthews will put up a ridiculous amount of goals. I think we could see stuff that we didn't think was possible. I'm talking 70 goals for Matthews... 150 points for Marner. But they need lots of ice time... lots of PP time... and a really good LW. This would also only be possible once Marner fills out and can become more physically competitive.

Lol Slow down there Tex.

 

[Notsince67]

I think the leafs need to hire yoda

 

[Nithoniniel]

Lol Slow down there Tex.

(severe sarcasm warning)

Oh you know, if it weren't for Babcock, we'd be a dynasty right now and Matthews and Marner would be the best players to ever play the game. He's not an NHL caliber coach, and his blunders like playing Hyman on the first line, who should be in the ECHL, and not playing Carrick over Polak on the third pairing is holding this team back from reaching that level.

 

[IPS]

Matthews by > +$3 mil /season.

Individual points alone do not determine value nor impact to a team..

Seriously Mess I want to know if you legitimately believe this.

You've ignored my Toews and Kane example twice now which completely debunks this. The Hawks are arguably the most successful team (2nd at worst) of this era and they clearly value Kane equally as much as Toews.

Are you interested in objective discussion or looking right to strangers on the internet?

 

[Notsince67]

Seriously Mess I want to know if you legitimately believe this.

You've ignored my Toews and Kane example twice now which completely debunks this. The Hawks are arguably the most successful team (2nd at worst) of this era and they clearly value Kane equally as much as Toews.

Are you interested in objective discussion or looking right to strangers on the internet?

The next argument will be that Toews should be paid >+3MM than Kane.
Please note that according to the new formula Kucherov (100pts) will likely not make more than $6mm on his next signing because Stamkos is at $8.5MM already

 

[IPS]

The next argument will be that Toews should be paid >+3MM than Kane.
Please note that according to the new formula Kucherov (100pts) will likely not make more than $6mm on his next signing because Stamkos is at $8.5MM already

Because clearly he'd know more than a management team who built a 3-time cup winning roster They've paid Toews and Kane equally throughout their careers in Chicago because they value them equally. Toews for being a 2-way matchup center (the kind of player Mess drools over) and Kane for being a game-breaking uber talented winger (the kind of player Mess thinks are expendable, replaceable and not valuable).

 

[Notsince67]

Because clearly he'd know more than a management team who built a 3-time cup winning roster They've paid Toews and Kane equally throughout their careers in Chicago because they value them equally. Toews for being a 2-way matchup center (the kind of player Mess drools over) and Kane for being a game-breaking uber talented winger (the kind of player Mess thinks are expendable, replaceable and not valuable).

 

[Menzinger]

Funny enough too, Kane has actually lived up to his high salary, Toews, not so much.

 

[kindalaidback]

i just wanted to write that i wouldn't have signed toews to a 10.5 mill contract, but i didn't know if i was the only one.

i love toews, and i think he is a great defensive center, but that's a lot of money for the next few years. and i honestly don't know if he will ever get more than 60 points again.

 

[IPS]

i just wanted to write that i wouldn't have signed toews to a 10.5 mill contract, but i didn't know if i was the only one.

i love toews, and i think he is a great defensive center, but that's a lot of money for the next few years. and i honestly don't know if he will ever get more than 60 points again.

In his prime he was a terrific player no doubt. But anyone who says he didn't benefit from an extremely high-end winger group would be lying. Hossa was one of the best 2-way guys in the game for a very long time and Sharp and Saad certainly weren't chopped liver either.

I didn't mean to throw this thread off-topic.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Marner has the most consistent work ethic of the three Amigos presently i believe!

Matthews shot with Marner putting passes on the tee is a combo we deserve to see playing together as their minutes per game increases.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Marner has the most consistent work ethic of the three Amigos presently i believe!

Matthews shot with Marner putting passes on the tee is a combo we deserve to see playing together as their minutes per game increases.

At the very least next season Babcock should put Matthews and Marner together on the same power play line.

 

[Mess]

Because clearly he'd know more than a management team who built a 3-time cup winning roster They've paid Toews and Kane equally throughout their careers in Chicago because they value them equally. Toews for being a 2-way matchup center (the kind of player Mess drools over) and Kane for being a game-breaking uber talented winger (the kind of player Mess thinks are expendable, replaceable and not valuable).

Yup captain serious Johnny Toews is my favourite NHL player.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Toews had captained his team to two Cups by the time he signed his big extension, and he won his third in the final season of his old deal before the new one kicked in. THAT'S why he's paid so much. His contract is immune to criticism IMO because Hawks fans have already gotten what they needed from him (and Kane too). THREE CUPS.

If Matthews helps us win three Cups after signing an $11M or whatever contract and turns into a 50pt player a couple years later I'd gladly keep signing those checks.

Don't bite the hand that fed you.

 

[moon111]

I think Marner was let down by JVR's speed. When Marner first hit the ice running, Bozak was getting passes. He'd never seen that before from shoot-first wingers he's played with. Bozak might be a good stickhandler, passer, etc. But he's never been a one-time shot. But they kind of made it work, Bozak ended up with his 2nd highest goal total. But teams realized, you cover Bozak and Marner had no play and would have to hold on to the puck longer then he should have to. JVR wouldn't be there. By not being able to make a play because of this, it was easier to force him to turn the puck over. And that was a disaster. JVR would usually skate back to the bench knowing he couldn't get back into the play. Andreas Johnsson/Bozak/Marner would of been much more successful option for Marner, despite losing one of the best goal-scorers off that line.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Part of the Leafs success (despite Babcock's coaching) is that they tend to pay balanced scoring lines. So Marner still might be a winger with Matthews. Marner seems to found a home as RH point guy on the PP which should add to his point total.
IMO the Nylander is going to play centre this year, partly out of necessity, but long term it should benefit the Leafs. Marner then should be Matthews RWwer, good for Marner, Matthews and their LWer Grundstrom (well that's my thought).

 

[Mugzy97]

Marner is an unbelievable talent. If he can get his shot to a point where it's a threat, the PP will get even more scary for goalies on other teams. Instead of passing every time, throwing a hard accurate shot at the net every once in a while could throw the goalies off big time and keep them guessing. I believe he will have multiple seasons between 90-100 points. He'll make Johnny Hockey a poor man's Mitch Marner.

 

[ULF_55]

Anyone remember the “Mitch Marner on pace for 9 goals” thread? Classic.

Holl ended his NHL campaign on a 82 goal pace.
Matthews was on 328 goal pace.

Anyway, future looks bright.

 

[Mugzy97]

Holl ended his NHL campaign on a 82 goal pace.
Matthews was on 328 goal pace.

Anyway, future looks bright.

Those examples are at the other end of the spectrum using players in 1 and 2 game sample sizes. It is common to have a high pace if you score 4 goals in the first game of the season or 2 goals in your only 2 NHL games.

Marner's case was the opposite. He wasn't scoring goals for the first 30-35 games and then had an outburst to finish the season. The thread was started by a fan of another team looking to shoot down a Leafs prospect as they always love to do when they aren't succeeding.

 

[ULF_55]

Excellent point.

Toews is no longer the player he was, and Kane is still offensively leading the charge.

Need more than just a top end winger. Ovechkin didn't do it on his own.

 

[Brobust]

I love Marner and think he'll be a top 5 offensive player in his prime. But this isn't even worth discussing.

Matthews is a guy who will be in constant contention for both the Rocket and the Selke. Imagine if Kopitar scored 50. He will be the 2nd best player of his generation.

 

[Mess]

Dreger: Some believe Matthews, Marner should be close contractually

TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joins Landsberg in the Morning with Matt Cauz and Carlo Colaiacovo to discuss Ilya Kovalchuk's future in the NHL, if the Maple Leafs would be interested in the UFA, Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner's contract negotiations, Alex Ovechkin's partying after winning the Cup and more.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-10...arner-should-be-close-contractually-1.1109067