Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospects Thread

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zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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Unless he blows up at camp, he's definitely ready imo.

Don't think they're gonna give him the spot, and will probably end up going with the Dermott (mid-season callup) route, but my guess is he'd be the second best RHD on the team by April.

I'm pretty surr Dermott was held back because there wasn't a clear spot for him out of camp.

Rielly - Zaisev
Gardiner - Polak
Hainsey - Carrick

Were the incumbents to start the year, Babs had his R/L balance, and Carrick needed to clear waivers to be sent down.

They kept another young kid in Borgman to be the 7th dman so it's not like they were holding back kids.

And remember, Dermott only had one AHL season under his belt.

This year Babs doesn't have his L/R balance yet, there are only 5 incumbents not 6, nobody worth caring about would have to go on waivers to be sent down, and Lilly has already had 2 full seasons in the AHL. Lilly already has more AHL games than Dermott ever did, even after being held down for half that season.
 
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Morbo

The Annihilator
Jan 14, 2003
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I'm not writing Timashov off yet, but I don't think he's definitely looking more like a depth role player at best.

He's improved his production each year ... If he can keep that up, he might be useful depth for the Leafs later this season or next year.

But he's been passed on the depth chart.. So he's on the cusp of the outs.

you're not wrong. this is the type of player we're going to be taking a chance on with this regime. I didn't mind the pick where we took him.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Aug 1, 2013
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I'm pretty surr Dermott was held back because there wasn't a clear spot for him out of camp.

Rielly - Zaisev
Gardiner - Polak
Hainsey - Carrick

Were the incumbents to start the year, Babs had his R/L balance, and Carrick needed to clear waivers to be sent down.

They kept another young kid in Borgman to be the 7th dman so it's not like they were holding back kids.

And remember, Dermott only had one AHL season under his belt.

This year Babs doesn't have his L/R balance yet, there are only 5 incumbents not 6, nobody worth caring about would have to go on waivers to be sent down, and Lilly has already had 2 full seasons in the AHL. Lilly already has more AHL games than Dermott ever did, even after being held down for half that season.

The lines out of training camp in that season were:

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Carrick/Polak
Borgman/Rosen-Zaitsev
Borgman/Rosen-Carrick/Polak

Zaitsev kind of moved all over the place, and Carrick/Polak rotated a ton, but it was pretty much Borgman's job until Dermott was ready to take it from him (Rosen also played a bit but sucked hard and was sent down pretty quickly). If Dermott was ready for a job out of training camp, he could have just beat out Borgman and Rosen. He didn't do that until mid-season.

I'd expect the same out of Liljegren, since I see the Leafs giving Harpur and Schmaltz in the top 6. They did go out of their way to acquire both so unless they totally suck I'd expect them to be the guys to start out.
 

Magic Man

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Mar 30, 2012
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I think that by this time next year, we'll talk about Timashov in about the same way we talk about Moore now.
I think it's possible. I think he is worse defensively. If he blows up offensively like it is possible for him to do and he maintains the grit he showed in the playoffs, he will make himself a waiver risk the following season. Interesting prospect still, but shouldn't be too high on prospect lists because he will clear waivers with ease in the short term.
 

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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Anything is possible. I haven't lost all hope with Timashov yet. It's extremely unlikely but he's running pretty similar statistically to Mike Hoffman who cleared waivers his first year eligible before breaking out. I think Timashov could dig a depth role out of his career yet.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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The lines out of training camp in that season were:

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Carrick/Polak
Borgman/Rosen-Zaitsev
Borgman/Rosen-Carrick/Polak

Zaitsev kind of moved all over the place, and Carrick/Polak rotated a ton, but it was pretty much Borgman's job until Dermott was ready to take it from him (Rosen also played a bit but sucked hard and was sent down pretty quickly). If Dermott was ready for a job out of training camp, he could have just beat out Borgman and Rosen. He didn't do that until mid-season.

I'd expect the same out of Liljegren, since I see the Leafs giving Harpur and Schmaltz in the top 6. They did go out of their way to acquire both so unless they totally suck I'd expect them to be the guys to start out.

Carrick 23
Rosen 23
Borgman 22
Dermott 21

Babs thought that the other young dmen were better options than Dermott (and was wrong). Didn't have anything to do with readiness.

He should have been on that team from day one.
 

justafan22

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Jun 22, 2014
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Carrick 23
Rosen 23
Borgman 22
Dermott 21

Babs thought that the other young dmen were better options than Dermott (and was wrong). Didn't have anything to do with readiness.

He should have been on that team from day one.

I remember that Rosen had high expectations that year, was terrible to start the year and then got sent down.
 

lifelonghockeyfan

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Dec 18, 2015
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The Marlies like so many AHL teams have few NHL prospects. The only "difference makers" NHLer might Sandin and Liljegren plus Scott and Woll. Unlikely any of the other Marlies forwards or Dmen are more than bottom six players and even at that just Korshov, Brooks could be considered NHLers. Bracco a boom or bust guy needs to play a top 6 player or PP specialists....doubt if NHL good long term.
A raft of other Dmen, late draft picks or UFAs...more emergency call ups than NHLers.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Aug 1, 2013
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The Marlies like so many AHL teams have few NHL prospects. The only "difference makers" NHLer might Sandin and Liljegren plus Scott and Woll. Unlikely any of the other Marlies forwards or Dmen are more than bottom six players and even at that just Korshov, Brooks could be considered NHLers. Bracco a boom or bust guy needs to play a top 6 player or PP specialists....doubt if NHL good long term.
A raft of other Dmen, late draft picks or UFAs...more emergency call ups than NHLers.

Not so sure that is true. Many of the Marlies' top guys are U24, which is not something most other teams can claim. Even then, a lot of other teams' U24 players are not as good as many of ours. There are not as many "difference makers" as there once was, but there is a huge area between that and not being an NHLer at all.

Sandin, Liljegren, Scott, Woll and Bracco are the only ones I would say with a good amount of confidence that could become legit top 6/top 4/starting caliber goalies at this point.

However after that you have guys like Engvall, Korshkov, Brooks, Kivihalme, Hollowell, Lindgren, Duszak, Timashov, etc. who may not be those premier guys but are good enough to replace expensive depth players and will be doing so for the Leafs in the next year or two. Our development system does not just produce guys who put up points, but also guys who are strong defensively and can skate (both of which usually limit AHL prospects from making the next step). Not all of them are going to make it, but the Marlies are far from being "like so many AHL teams" and it shows why they are able to consistently put up championship caliber teams despite a core consistent mostly of legit prospects and the usual callups/injuries that hurt their depth.
 

lifelonghockeyfan

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Dec 18, 2015
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Sea of Blue. Think you just confirmed what I said. Kivihalme is a 25 year old UFA, Hollowell and Brooks were passed over twice in the draft, Lindgren has shown much in pro Finnish career, Duszak a NCAA graduate and UFA....hardly potential difference makers in the NHL. Probably really iffy to find regular NHL employment.
Sure the Marlies might have better U24 players, but that doesn't necessarily make them better NHL players either in numbers or quality.
 

Kiwi

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Mar 5, 2016
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Between Timashov/Brooks/Engvall I like our odds at getting another Hyman/Johnsson/Moore

I watch a lot of Marlies, I think your out of your mind

Not in a month of Sunday's, injury depth maybe but top 9 starters? No way in hell unless a miracle happens
 

4thline

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Jul 18, 2014
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I watch a lot of Marlies, I think your out of your mind

Not in a month of Sunday's, injury depth maybe but top 9 starters? No way in hell unless a miracle happens
For one of the three to turn out when all three are on track?
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
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very possible, Timashov has developed a nice 2-way game, to go with his offensive skillset.

Timashov's two-way game still needs work. It's not terrible, but it's not great.

Johnsson's two-way game was a fair bit better, but it's not like it really played up in the NHL. Timashov could probably be about as good defensively in the NHL as Johnsson is right now.
 

4thline

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On track for what? There nothing special in the AHL and pushing up there in age for prospects

The three current prospects are all tracking comparably/better than the three NHLers did at the same age. And there's an argument to be made that they all look better than their stats just as Moore did last year before his breakout.
 

Kiwi

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Mar 5, 2016
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The three current prospects are all tracking comparably/better than the three NHLers did at the same age. And there's an argument to be made that they all look better than their stats just as Moore did last year before his breakout.

There not the same class of player imo

Hyman has a non stop motor and is very good at using his somewhat limited skillset, Johnsson has above average tools with compete and Moore has good tools and a ton of compete and both those last 2 guys dominated and were noticibly better than everybody else during long AHL playoff runs

Besides Timashov who had a very strong AHL playoffs last season I just don't see the upside with any of those guys, be it tools or compete level
 

4thline

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
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There not the same class of player imo

Hyman has a non stop motor and is very good at using his somewhat limited skillset, Johnsson has above average tools with compete and Moore has good tools and a ton of compete and both those last 2 guys dominated and were noticibly better than everybody else during long AHL playoff runs

Besides Timashov who had a very strong AHL playoffs last season I just don't see the upside with any of those guys, be it tools or compete level

Both of which happened during the same age season that is coming up for the other 3. Moore is one year older, Johnsson 2. Most people would have said the same things you're saying about Moore last year. I actually had a fairly lengthy debate about why he shouldn't be written off using Hyman as an example, and the response was very similar to "well they're not the same class of player."

They are. They're at the same point after the U23 season. What remains to be seen is if they can follow the curve and emerge as players during the U24 season.

As for tools/ compete level Engvall is the biggest and best skater of the 6, Timashov arguably the best playmaker, and Brooks the best two way and overall smartest.
 
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