Recalled/Assigned: Mark Scheifele sent back to Barrie Colts (OHL)

[Andy6]

I thought that Atlanta's mortal sin was that they rushed players. Now ours is apparently that we don't rush players.

 

[Bob E]

Good post. I will say that I'm much happier with Mark getting lots of minutes in the OHL then riding the pine here and playing 8 minutes a game.


I agree with your point that this organization doesn't seem to be all on the same wavelength. Case in point what the heck was Redmond doing in the pressbox while Clitsome kept playing awful. I personally believe that we have the wrong coach for this organization, it took Buff getting injured to give him a shot. Its also not like he didn't have any pro-seasoning he's a two time AHL allstar. This organization is really starting to baffle me.

They may be loyal to a player, to a fault. I agree we don't seem to be putting the best lineup in every night, or play the right guys in certain situations.

I tend to chalk that up to player development, being put in unfamiliar positions to gain experience to be a more complete or rounded player later, but i'm starting to lose patience.

Just make the damn playoffs first. Have the best guys here that will do that. If they can't seem to get it together, get someone else.

 

[Sweech]

What about Landeskog? Brandon Saad? Andrew Shaw? look past the first round dude. Plus Barchi and Olesiak are still both possibilities as well.

Yeah my bad, I missed 'em by accident, I'll edit them in. Shaw was more intentional as he was picked as a much older guy. He essentially had to play pro (I'm counting AHL also as a pro league) this year and last due to age.

Baertschi and Oleksiak I'm very unsure of. Both are able to play AHL and their teams haven't committed them to the big league over the A, so I thought it incorrect to infer they would end up with more games. Maybe with more injuries, we'll see. Although in the same vein I think if Scheifele was older and able to play in the AHL he would have the same opportunity to bounce up and down, so I think it makes those two a mute point. Just my belief however.

I don't think Lando or Saad change what I'm saying though. Even with the others, I don't think the additional max of 5 guys swings things. Especially when you count my assumption that Scheifele will make the big club in 1-2 years. Making it completely impossible for any draftmates to have 4-5 years of pro experience on him.

 

[garret9]

I love hfboards logic....

Let's clear up some things without ANY subjective views... IE: some of my comments will help both sides of any of the current arguments.

1) Jets are using a top9 system, not a top6... Most of the hard match-ups are spread out between the top3 lines (Noel does most to Ladd/Little line) and what he does to the 4th line is basically throw them out in the D-zone 90% of the time to work very-very uphill...

2) There's more than one way to skin a cat. Not looking at any of the details, this decision does not determine anything in particular of Scheifele's worth, development or ceiling, nor does it determine anything about him relative to his draft class....

3) Stop looking at boxcar stats... Especially when looking at small sample sizes (ex: Burmistrov in AHL, Scheifele in AHL/NHL, Wellwood this season). There is so much that usage does to a person's production and also small sample sizes can skew no matter how good/weak a player is.

4) If Scheifele never, ever, ever becomes better than Couturier or Hamilton, it doesn't mean that any one particular side is right in how the picks and the process. Too many variables and it's far more complicated than that. Just like if Scheifele becomes better doesn't prove the other side or mean necessarily that Chevy and co were right. Also, it's not typical for any player from a particular draft class to stay consistently better than his closely drafted peers.

5) Let's stop it with the huge exaggerations... both sides please.

6) Scheifele was a "reach" in the sense that most public draft rankings had him placed higher, but let's not say stupid things like he's a 3rd rounder or 10-20 pick reach. The most recent available drafts had him later but not that much (Future Considerations 13, The Scouting Report 10, TSN 12, etc).

 

[Bob E]

Its ok, he'll be in St. John's next season .

A year in the AHL is not the end of the world either. It's more about what type of player they turn out to be when they mature than what they are as an 18 or 19 yr old.

If a 22 yr old Scheifele can't make the NHL, and gives nothing more then where he is now as a 19 yr old, then i truly think the Jets move on. Such is life.

Folks who see Scheifele as a top 6 center feel he'll mature and be able to fill that role because he has skills and desire. Folks that think he's a bust look at his current production, or ability, and say that's the best we'll likely get. Either side can be right, it's really up to Mark to continue to develop and have a successful career in the NHL.

I, for one, am pulling for the kid. I hope he matures and reaches the potential he has set for himself. But, if he doesn't get there, i'm also fully prepared to move on and cheer for someone that can fill that role. We don't know about Scheif yet, too early, imo to give up on him, but he will need to show some progress in the coming years.

 

[TroubaFan1]

He's gotten more NHL time than most of his peers...

This is what you said, nothing to do with age or anything, just peers which you ended up saying was his draft class.

Yeah my bad, I missed 'em by accident, I'll edit them in. Shaw was more intentional as he was picked as a much older guy. He essentially had to play pro (I'm counting AHL also as a pro league) this year and last due to age.

Baertschi and Oleksiak I'm very unsure of. Both are able to play AHL and their teams haven't committed them to the big league over the A, so I thought it incorrect to infer they would end up with more games. Maybe with more injuries, we'll see. Although in the same vein I think if Scheifele was older and able to play in the AHL he would have the same opportunity to bounce up and down, so I think it makes those two a mute point. Just my belief however.

I don't think Lando or Saad change what I'm saying though. Even with the others, I don't think the additional max of 5 guys swings things. Especially when you count my assumption that Scheifele will make the big club in 1-2 years. Making it completely impossible for any draftmates to have 4-5 years of pro experience on him.

Who said anything about draftmates having 4-5 years of pro experience?

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

IMO, the team had already made up its mind about Scheifele before the season started. Aside from signing Jokinen, they never gave Scheifele serious minutes with decent linemates. Compare that with Huberdeau who started the season on Florida's second line or Hamilton who got partnered up with Chara.

 

[JustBeCool]

I don't understand all the moaning about how the Jets are not putting in their young rookies in the line up. This is a shortened season so you have little time to gamble or test the waters. Priority is to get your top players going and playing for a good start and to get into playoffs before anything else. By pushing the young guys up in the line up, yeah maybe they can develop and turn into something or maybe they don't but at the same time they are taking a spot from the other top guys. The possibility of wasting time with a shortened season is just not worth the risk.

Also I get why they didn't put Redmond over Clitsome because really who do you choose? The one with more NHL experience and you know how he plays or take a leap of faith and choose the one with zip? Thankfully Redmond seems to hold his own out there when he got put into the lineup but what if he didn't?

And now back on topic, there just wasn't room for Scheifele and honestly whenever he was on the ice he clearly looked like a rookie. Yeah he had energy but you already have other guys who can do that and young guys like Burmi who stills need to be pushed up in the lineup. Why force something that wasn't going to work? Sheifele isn't quite ready yet. Hopefully he will be next season. For the time being he can go down in Barrie where he will have a bigger role. It's a short season guys.... it's not end of the world that Sheifele isn't in the line up this year.

 

[Sweech]

I love hfboards logic....

Let's clear up some things without ANY subjective views... IE: some of my comments will help both sides of any of the current arguments.

1) Jets are using a top9 system, not a top6... Most of the hard match-ups are spread out between the top3 lines (Noel does most to Ladd/Little line) and what he does to the 4th line is basically throw them out in the D-zone 90% of the time to work very-very uphill...

2) There's more than one way to skin a cat. Not looking at any of the details, this decision does not determine anything in particular of Scheifele's worth, development or ceiling, nor does it determine anything about him relative to his draft class....

3) Stop looking at boxcar stats... Especially when looking at small sample sizes (ex: Burmistrov in AHL, Scheifele in AHL/NHL, Wellwood this season). There is so much that usage does to a person's production and also small sample sizes can skew no matter how good/weak a player is.

4) If Scheifele never, ever, ever becomes better than Couturier or Hamilton, it doesn't mean that any one particular side is right in how the picks and the process. Too many variables and it's far more complicated than that. Just like if Scheifele becomes better doesn't prove the other side or mean necessarily that Chevy and co were right. Also, it's not typical for any player from a particular draft class to stay consistently better than his closely drafted peers.

5) Let's stop it with the huge exaggerations... both sides please.

6) Scheifele was a "reach" in the sense that most public draft rankings had him placed higher, but let's not say stupid things like he's a 3rd rounder or 10-20 pick reach. The most recent available drafts had him later but not that much (Future Considerations 13, The Scouting Report 10, TSN 12, etc).

QFT.

I agree fully with all 6 points. Thanks for always putting in the work to write these posts garret. Always appreciated.

 

[Sweech]

This is what you said, nothing to do with age or anything, just peers which you ended up saying was his draft class.


Who said anything about draftmates having 4-5 years of pro experience?

The person I replied to with the post you replied to.

Edit: This one by morningwood:

at this rate he won't make the big club for another 2-3 years, similar to Kadri. At that point, other players in same draft class will already have 4-5 pro years under their belt. I like the kid and am rooting for him but it looks like Chevy made the wrong choice.

How is Telegin progressing? I havent heard his name in a while.

 

[SCP Guy]

I thought that Atlanta's mortal sin was that they rushed players. Now ours is apparently that we don't rush players.

Agree... Slow down if Atlanta would have taken their time with Kane burmi and bogo we would be a better orginaization IMHO

 

[surixon]

I don't understand all the moaning about how the Jets are not putting in their young rookies in the line up. This is a shortened season so you have little time to gamble or test the waters. Priority is to get your top players going and playing for a good start and to get into playoffs before anything else. By pushing the young guys up in the line up, yeah maybe they can develop and turn into something or maybe they don't but at the same time they are taking a spot from the other top guys. The possibility of wasting time with a shortened season is just not worth the risk.

Also I get why they didn't put Redmond over Clitsome because really who do you choose? The one with more NHL experience and you know how he plays or take a leap of faith and choose the one with zip? Thankfully Redmond seems to hold his own out there when he got put into the lineup but what if he didn't?

And now back on topic, there just wasn't room for Scheifele and honestly whenever he was on the ice he clearly looked like a rookie. Yeah he had energy but you already have other guys who can do that and young guys like Burmi who stills need to be pushed up in the lineup. Why force something that wasn't going to work? Sheifele isn't quite ready yet. Hopefully he will be next season. For the time being he can go down in Barrie where he will have a bigger role. It's a short season guys.... it's not end of the world that Sheifele isn't in the line up this year.

The organization has seen Redmond first hand now for two years get recognition. Of being one of the best Defenseman in the AHL they should have a good assessment on him. The same applies to every rookie, you don't know until you play them, seems like other organizations have no problem playing them right out of the gate. On the otherhand we seem afraid to put young guys in the lineup which isn't good when you are a team trying to draft and develops players.

I agree that there wasn't a spot for Mark this year, which is why I think it was a waste to bringg him here in the first place.

 

[KingBogo]

A lot of strong opinions on Scheifele today. I like many of you wished he got a better shot at showing what he's got, but he didn't knock the door down so he goes back to Barrie. So be it. I still think he will develop into an important piece to this team. I still think he will make a great #2 centre on a contending team. Which I have all the confidence we will be one day. Watching the "big boys" from the press box is also a good learning experience. Mark also got to slow things down a bit and rest which should benefit him and Barrie down the stretch. Chevy also put approx $100,000 in his pocket keeping him up over the bast couple weeks which for a 19 year old kid goes a long way. Scheifele will just have to learn and develop and before you know it he will be an everyday player.

 

[TroubaFan1]

The person I replied to with the post you replied to.

Edit: This one by morningwood:

Now I remember , I knew I didn't say that.

 

[surixon]

Agree... Slow down if Atlanta would have taken their time with Kane burmi and bogo we would be a better orginaization IMHO

Kane wouldn't have learned anything else in junior, but I agree with Burmie and to lesser extent Bogosian.

 

[Sweech]

Now I remember , I knew I didn't say that.

Oh no, my apologies. I didn't mean to imply you said that. I think the whole discussion got tied in with other things.

 

[Sweech]

Kane wouldn't have learned anything else in junior, but I agree with Burmie and to lesser extent Bogosian.

I'm actually not sure if Bogosian wasn't ready. He was very physically developed for his age.

He suffered some bumps along the road, but I'm not sure he was rushed. I think he was ready personally.

 

[surixon]

Agree... Slow down if Atlanta would have taken their time with Kane burmi and bogo we would be a better orginaization IMHO

Kane wouldn't have learned anything else in junior, but I agree with Burmie and to lesser extent Bogosian.

 

[surixon]

Interesting to note that the Blue Jackets just sent down their first pick Ryan Johansen to the AHL. Similar center to Scheifele but a year older. I certainly hope the Blue Jackets aren't in the process of ruining another quality center prospect. As much as I'm not happy with how the Jets handled Scheifele this year, I am glad that they atleast decided not keep him up playing all year on the fourth line like Columbus did with Ryan.

 

[ps241]

Interesting to note that the Blue Jackets just sent down their first pick Ryan Johanasson to the AHL. Similar center to Scheifele but year older, certainly hope the Blue Jackets aren't in the process of ruining another quality center prospect. As much as I'm not happy with how Jets handled Scheifele this year, I am glad that the atleast decided not keep him up playing all year oj the fourth line like Columbus did with Ryan.

Appropriate day for this cautionary tale post.

 

[krazy kanuck]

I'm actually not sure if Bogosian wasn't ready. He was very physically developed for his age.

He suffered some bumps along the road, but I'm not sure he was rushed. I think he was ready personally.

Bogosian may not have been rushed, but I'm not so sure more time in junior wouldn't have hurt him. In that case there is an easy comparison in Alex Pietrangelo. They were both roughly the same size and drafted after one another. While Bogosian was trying to compete at the NHL level and getting worn down against men, AP was getting a taste of the NHL and going back to junior. He had a couple of great years with long playoff runs in junior. Now AP is knocking on the door of a Norris trophy...

Maybe the Jets will have Scheifele on the Pietrangelo path instead of the Bogosian one...

 

[Duir]

I love hfboards logic....

Let's clear up some things without ANY subjective views... IE: some of my comments will help both sides of any of the current arguments.

1) Jets are using a top9 system, not a top6... Most of the hard match-ups are spread out between the top3 lines (Noel does most to Ladd/Little line) and what he does to the 4th line is basically throw them out in the D-zone 90% of the time to work very-very uphill...

2) There's more than one way to skin a cat. Not looking at any of the details, this decision does not determine anything in particular of Scheifele's worth, development or ceiling, nor does it determine anything about him relative to his draft class....

3) Stop looking at boxcar stats... Especially when looking at small sample sizes (ex: Burmistrov in AHL, Scheifele in AHL/NHL, Wellwood this season). There is so much that usage does to a person's production and also small sample sizes can skew no matter how good/weak a player is.

4) If Scheifele never, ever, ever becomes better than Couturier or Hamilton, it doesn't mean that any one particular side is right in how the picks and the process. Too many variables and it's far more complicated than that. Just like if Scheifele becomes better doesn't prove the other side or mean necessarily that Chevy and co were right. Also, it's not typical for any player from a particular draft class to stay consistently better than his closely drafted peers.

5) Let's stop it with the huge exaggerations... both sides please.

6) Scheifele was a "reach" in the sense that most public draft rankings had him placed higher, but let's not say stupid things like he's a 3rd rounder or 10-20 pick reach. The most recent available drafts had him later but not that much (Future Considerations 13, The Scouting Report 10, TSN 12, etc).

This is the first time I've 100% with everything you said. Not that I always disagree, some things just differ I guess. Awesome post and worth taking in for those who are debating.

 

[surixon]

Bogosian may not have been rushed, but I'm not so sure more time in junior wouldn't have hurt him. In that case there is an easy comparison in Alex Pietrangelo. They were both roughly the same size and drafted after one another. While Bogosian was trying to compete at the NHL level and getting worn down against men, AP was getting a taste of the NHL and going back to junior. He had a couple of great years with long playoff runs in junior. Now AP is knocking on the door of a Norris trophy...

Maybe the Jets will have Scheifele on the Pietrangelo path instead of the Bogosian one...

I remember Bogosian having a more developed all around game at the same age and being a little more physical of a player. I do agree that one more year in junior may have been benificial but I don't think he would have needed anymore time than that.

I think the Pieterangelo template may be apt. Anywase wishing Scheifele and the Colts the best of luck for this postseason. They have a team that can go all the way.

 

[Guardian17]

Based on what I saw Scheifele is not ready to play in the NHL.

He is easily knocked of the puck and he is not playing his natural position at centre.

Good move by the Jets.

 

[jetkarma*]

I thought that Atlanta's mortal sin was that they rushed players. Now ours is apparently that we don't rush players.

A year and half plus after you were picked 7th overall and experienced 2 WJC would not be rushed imo. Sending him back may or may not be the best decision but him staying up could not have been classified as rushed.