Speculation: Mark Madden: Penguins will try to trade Kessel this offseason

[KingsFan7824]

I don't see why you guys are doubting this. It's a simple case of looking into the future. They know Kessel will only get worse so why not maximize their asset's value by trading him for a younger top-6 forward (albeit not as good) plus picks and prospects?

Has Kessel ever been traded for that much at the time he was traded? He just had a career year at 30 playing with Crosby and Malkin, still has 4 years left on his deal, is only going to get worse, and he's going to bring back more in a trade than he ever has? Future picks and prospects, yes, but nobody has traded anything remotely proven for him. It's possible, maybe the Pens retain 50%, but that younger top 6 might be asking too much.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I wonder what the Pens would want from the Sharks for Kessel.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

I wonder what the Pens would want from the Sharks for Kessel.

Meir+1st+prospect maybe.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Obviously. I'd very much like the same thing. But unless there is some internal issues we don't know about, I doubt Pittsburgh does that without getting a strong anchor piece. Kyrou could be that, but with Tage in there, its a collection of spare parts, good parts, but none close to Kessel.



It would really depend on how hopeful I was that he would return to form coming off his surgery. That is a lot to give up if Fabbri is what he was before getting injured. I obviously have no inside info on how his recovery is progressing. Not saying no, but not saying yes either. I'm kind of on the fence. I am really worried that someday Kessel will just fall off a cliff. Everybody always worries about it and it hasn't happened. But with rumors of his terrible off-season work-ethic and his somewhat reliance on speed, it will always be a worry, justified or not.

What are you talking about? Where are you getting this from? What sites or sources support this?

2018- The Return Of Robby Fabbri - The Runner Sports
"The Blues have seen just a tease of his incredible quickness, amazing skill, and tremendous work ethic"
2015-Fabbri-cation of a dream
"Prior to the injury, Fabbri’s relentless work ethic, positive attitude and jaw-dropping skill set had seen him thrive alongside linemates Connor McDavid"

Only thing I've seen is when Hitch was talking about his night to night performance, he wanted him to be the "go-to-guy" every night and that the "tenacity and work ethic" need to be there.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Understandable. I wish we had that player because I'd do Coyle/Nino + 1st type of deal all day. Those guys have are running out of upside and approaching what they will be, they are off their ELCs. That's just a 25-35ish point upgrade for the cost of a late first.

Last ditch effort: Berglund (30-40 point guy who plays good defense and can play C) + Tage Thompson (nearly ready RW with Top 6 potential) + 1st + 2nd? Pretty please? <sigh>

I would be willing to add our 2019 1st unprotected over the 2nd and one of our D prospects. Kessel is exactly what this team needs.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think the big difference is that it actually may make some sense this time around, if Kessel and Sullivan's issues are really as bad as they're implied to be. Let's not kid anyone, there are legitimate arguments for trading Kessel if he and Sully have a strained relationship. Mentioning it in the past was stupid, but in this case, it might have some merit.

To play Devil's Advocate, is it wise to trade a star player in a coach/player feud, or to replace the coach?

Which would provide the bigger downgrade: moving on from Kessel or moving on from Sullivan?

 

[93LEAFS]

Has Kessel ever been traded for that much at the time he was traded? He just had a career year at 30 playing with Crosby and Malkin, still has 4 years left on his deal, is only going to get worse, and he's going to bring back more in a trade than he ever has? Future picks and prospects, yes, but nobody has traded anything remotely proven for him. It's possible, maybe the Pens retain 50%, but that younger top 6 might be asking too much.

I don't think the Pens can retain 50% they can only retain the remained 35% to the best of my knowledge. @mouser would know better.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Meir+1st+prospect maybe.

Meier would be a tough one to give up. Labanc would probably be easier for the Sharks to give up because they have a lot on their right side but in either instance I think the Sharks would need the Pens to take a contract back whether it's Boedker or Martin.

 

[Shwabeal]

What are you talking about? Where are you getting this from? What sites or sources support this?

2018- The Return Of Robby Fabbri - The Runner Sports
"The Blues have seen just a tease of his incredible quickness, amazing skill, and tremendous work ethic"
2015-Fabbri-cation of a dream
"Prior to the injury, Fabbri’s relentless work ethic, positive attitude and jaw-dropping skill set had seen him thrive alongside linemates Connor McDavid"

Only thing I've seen is when Hitch was talking about his night to night performance, he wanted him to be the "go-to-guy" every night and that the "tenacity and work ethic" need to be there.

He was talking about Kessel.

 

[Majorityof1]

What are you talking about? Where are you getting this from? What sites or sources support this?

2018- The Return Of Robby Fabbri - The Runner Sports
"The Blues have seen just a tease of his incredible quickness, amazing skill, and tremendous work ethic"
2015-Fabbri-cation of a dream
"Prior to the injury, Fabbri’s relentless work ethic, positive attitude and jaw-dropping skill set had seen him thrive alongside linemates Connor McDavid"

Only thing I've seen is when Hitch was talking about his night to night performance, he wanted him to be the "go-to-guy" every night and that the "tenacity and work ethic" need to be there.

Kessel's work ethic. I said a sentence or two before, "I am really worried that someday Kessel will just fall off a cliff." There was one off-season Kessel was quoted as saying something along the line that he only skated a dozen times over the summer.

 

[Empoleon8771]

To play Devil's Advocate, is it wise to trade a star player in a coach/player feud, or to replace the coach?

Which would provide the bigger downgrade: moving on from Kessel or moving on from Sullivan?

Probably moving on from Sullivan. I've seen what bad coaching can do to teams. Sullivan is a good coach, you need a good coach to have success. You don't need a great winger like Kessel to have success.

Has Kessel ever been traded for that much at the time he was traded? He just had a career year at 30 playing with Crosby and Malkin, still has 4 years left on his deal, is only going to get worse, and he's going to bring back more in a trade than he ever has? Future picks and prospects, yes, but nobody has traded anything remotely proven for him. It's possible, maybe the Pens retain 50%, but that younger top 6 might be asking too much.

You seem to be on an island of your own with this thought, because other people in here seem perfectly fine with trading their young top-6ers for Kessel.

 

[go4hockey]

Something based around Kessel for Parayko possible?

No not at all. The Blues would run far and fast away from that offer

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wonder what the Pens would want from the Sharks for Kessel.

It would have to start around Meier, I don't think Labanc would cut it as the first piece.

Madden doesn't seem overly credible but if they do try to trade him it won't be easy.

With that 8 team trade list he can just pick 1 team that's realistic and force them to trade him there like he did to the Leafs. I don't think he gets the monster return Pens fans are dreaming of if he is dealt.

Madden said that Kessel is amendable to being traded, that makes me think that he'd be open to teams beyond his 8 team NTC. He didn't want to leave Toronto, so he made his NTC as restrictive as it could possibly be. But this case, it seems like he's fine with being moved. Or that's at least what Madden is saying.

 

[rent free]

Jesse Marshall had a really good breakdown article debunking the whole 'lazy' thing. Personally, off the eye test, he seemed like a heck of a determined player this regular season even with back checking. And despite all the talent on our PP, I feel like Phil is the real PP QB that made us so dangerous.

Not to get too crazy, he's obviously not a 200' player but he is still a rare offensive talent. What he was able to do with Bozak and Bonino makes me think he'd be extra valuable to teams without elite talent at C.

i'm really surprised to hear that. i've watched a few pens games this season and in the defensive zone, he's always in the center of the zone, with his head down looking depressed. i feel like he doesn't enjoy play defense and its evident by his expression in the d zone

 

[rent free]

Oh yeah he's definitely a pain in the ass for coaches, I don't think anyone can deny that. He's a quirky guy that just rubs some coaches the wrong way.

he's probably quirky probably because he's a shy guy

 

[duffy9748]

I can't wait for Kessel to be traded for a larger return than the Leafs gave up just for casual hockey fans to ignore the fact that his cap hit isn't 8M anymore

Why do some Toronto fans constantly feel the need to play the victim card?

 

[domaug]

i trust Mark Madden as far as i could throw him (hint: not very far... he's obese and i have noodle arms)

IF Kessel would welcome a trade, though, the Pens should be able to get something decent.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Probably moving on from Sullivan. I've seen what bad coaching can do to teams. Sullivan is a good coach, you need a good coach to have success. You don't need a great winger like Kessel to have success.

In general, or specifically to the Pens? Because I'd disagree about with the Pens. We won in 2016 and 2017 BECAUSE we had a great winger like Kessel. He's the difference between those two Cup winning teams and those 2010-2015 paper tigers who relied on Crosby and Malkin.

If you're built differently, then maybe not. But when you're built around overwhelming teams with 3-lines each having 1 elite player on it, I think you do.

I also think that, as good as Sullivan's been, I'm not sure his system might be wearing thin with this club. It seems to rely on the entire team playing at their absolute best for it to work, and as we saw a lot of last season and pretty much all of this season, the guys can't keep up that kind of 100% effort all the time, and end up looking disorganized because of it.

I know that the concern is ending up with another Mike Johnston if Sullivan is let go, but what about if another quality coach is brought in? Why would it automatically be either Sullivan or we're back to Bylsma/Johnston?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Pittsburgh is looking to do some EA Sports GMing.

Trade Kessel for picks+prospects

Use that cap space to sign superstar free agent to replace him (John Tavares)

Now they have free prospects since they replaced Kessel with a just as good free agent.

Bravo Pittsburgh.

On a more serious note, it wouldn't surprise me to see Pittsburgh receive more than they gave up for Kessel. His reputation has increased since being on Pittsburgh, and when he was traded his contract was thought to be somewhat of an overpayment, or at least too big of an obligation for a great player with a then soiled rep; Now the cap has gone up to 80M, and with the Leafs retaining 6.8M is a bargain for Kessel.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know that the concern is ending up with another Mike Johnston if Sullivan is let go, but what about if another quality coach is brought in? Why would it automatically be either Sullivan or we're back to Bylsma/Johnston?

Because most coaches are Bylsma/Johnston caliber of coaches, and firing your 2x cup winning coach because he doesn't get along with one of your really good players who has had issues with other coaches in the past is a great way to get blacklisted by coaches. If it's Sullivan or Kessel, you 1000% get rid of Kessel. That's not even a question in my eyes. You don't need a great winger to win, nor are great wingers impossible to get. It's very difficult to get a coach as good as Sullivan, and you absolutely need great coaching to win a cup.

 

[Stad]

All for ratings for his show and it's working. I don't beleive a word that comes outta that slobs mouth.

 

[mouser]

I don't think the Pens can retain 50% they can only retain the remained 35% to the best of my knowledge. @mouser would know better.

Pens can retain 50% of the 85% they're on the hook for. A player can have a maximum of two salary retentions, at 50% each. So lowest possible is for the 3rd team acquiring to be paying 25% of the original salary.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Phil Kessel - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Aside from a good AAV, the cash layout for Kessel is great at $5.95 mil, $5.95 mil, $5.1 mil and $5.1 mil. Even with the lockout protection bonus, that’s still a beauty of a contract for teams more concerned about cash than the cap (Arizona, Carolina, Ottawa, etc.)

 

[93LEAFS]

Pens can retain 50% of the 85% they're on the hook for. A player can have a maximum of two salary retentions, at 50% each. So lowest possible is for the 3rd team acquiring to be paying 25% of the original salary.

So, what Kessel's can be acquired for is 3.4m a year cap hit wise?

Has any player been retained on twice. I just can't remember this happening.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So, what Kessel's can be acquired for is 3.4m a year cap hit wise?

Has any player been retained on twice. I just can't remember this happening.

Mark Streit had his salary retained twice in 2017 IIRC. Retained 50% by Philly when he moved to Tampa, and then retained some more by Tampa Bay when he moved to Pittsburgh.