Confirmed with Link: Mantha to Vegas for 2nd and 4th round picks

[Roshi]

Yeah, 1st was reaching it. Cool with these two picks. Atleast we didnt end up empty handed here. Also sends out a message that the shop is open. Come get yours!

Hopefully this also puts the price tag on Guentzel just a little bit down, as one of the few real options is propably out.

 

[Acallabeth]

Not amazing, but a 2nd+ is ok.
GMs around the league are well aware Mantha is an inconsistent secondary scoring winger with 0 career playoff goals who 'coincidentally' started scoring in his contract year. I doubt teams will line up to sign him long-term, he's a pure rental, and a 2nd and a 4th for a rental middle 6 winger who doesn't bring much versatility is ok.

 

[g00n]

I mean yeah but they also let it get to the point where he was a negatively valued asset despite having positive impacts. It's nice that they recovered some of his value this season but they hardly maximized Mantha during his tenure in DC and that affected his trade value today.

This is a crock of horseshit. What do you mean by "they hardly maximized" him?

You're just upset because your invisible goals stats say he was worth more than this, so someone other than the player or the stat has to be wrong.

 

[trick9]

This is a crock of horseshit. What do you mean by "they hardly maximixed" him?

You're just upset because your invisible goals stats say he was worth more than this, so someone other than the player or the stat have to be wrong.

If you ignore all the red flags around him. A player with those stats is worth more than this.

Unfortunately, not with his red flags. Enigmatic. Soft. Floater. Lazy. Inconsistent. All those words we saw last summer.

I doubt there was much (= any?) interest in a trade + extension, which obviously hurts his trade value. Will be interesting to see if any team is willing to give him a long-term contract he wants.

As for his seasons prior to this... well he said in an interview before this season that he didn't like how he played last season. He also mentioned that he was carrying more weight than he wanted last season. You can always point at the team but it's a 2-way partnership. Hats off to him for staying true to his word and bouncing back to extent where we got a good return out of it. He came a long way from last summer where he couldn't be dumped for free.

 

[Pigskin]

I wanted him gone and I have my wish, we got some assets ... maybe we use those assets as part payment to obtain somebody younger and better

If Twabby ends up getting his wish and he comes back in the off-season at some reasonable AAV, sobeit ... no way am I giving him 2 x $5m however ... 1 year at a time, and team friendly - you have earnt it Anthony

 

[g00n]

If you ignore all the red flags around him. A player with those stats is worth more than this.

Unfortunately, not with his red flags. Enigmatic. Soft. Floater. Lazy. Inconsistent. All those words we saw last summer.

I doubt there was much (= any?) interest in a trade + extension, which obviously hurts his trade value. Will be interesting to see if any team is willing to give him a long-term contract he wants.

As for his seasons prior to this... well he said in an interview before this season that he didn't like how he played last season. He also mentioned that he was carrying more weight than he wanted last season. You can always point at the team but it's a 2-way partnership. Hats off to him for staying true to his word and bouncing back to extent where we got a good return out of it. He came a long way from last summer where he couldn't be dumped for free.

Which is why you can't just look at a stat.

 

[Jags]

It's nice that they recovered some of his value this season but they hardly maximized Mantha during his tenure in DC and that affected his trade value today.

It's okay. You can say it... "Laviolette was a dick."

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[zappa4ever]

For a fanbase that bitched about Mantha incessantly for the entirety of his time here and then finally has a decent year when it magically coincides w/new contract time

And then he brings in a 2nd + 4th as a UFA rental and most of you react as WSH got robbed?

LOL git your heads oot yer arses

He's a UFA.
With a track record of red flags several years established.
GMBM did good.

 

[pman25]

Because they can use those slots as a 3rd party to facilitate trades for other teams, and pick up "free" draft picks in the process. Moreover, this return was fine for a full price Mantha, but is pretty tepid for a 50% retention.

I don’t get this piece because we got a 4th for retaining 50% for Mantha. Isn’t that a better use of the retention slots than receiving say a 5th to be a broker?

We get more retaining on our own player rather than other teams players

 

[twabby]

So….none of that is on the actual player/individual? They are all products of their environment?

We really don’t believe that, do we?

Some of it is on the player. No player is without flaws.

But yes they could have put him in a better position to succeed. They could have utilized him more on the struggling power play over guys like Sheary and Wilson. They could have given him more time beside Strome last year. They could have not had him eating healthy scratches when others were far more deserving. Etc.

 

[HeyMattyB]

 

[Empty Goal Net]

Last year, Eller netted a 2nd from the Avs with 37 percent retained on a $3,500,000 contract. imo, Dowd is stronger defensively than Eller but Lars is a more impactful player overall, basically a 3C compared to a 4C. Eller had by far a higher salary, and was a UFA at season's end. I think Dowd, with the extra year on his low-cost contract, should return a 2nd with no retention, and depending on the trading partner possibly a fringe roster player who can help here or in Hershey.

 

[Langway]

One of the very worst 5v5 scoring teams just subtracted a player tied for the team lead in 5v5 goals and also one of their better underlying 5v5 players. It's understandable but also hard to know when to expect a material step forward rather than steady continual decline. They may perhaps have a lot of cap space to throw around but we'll see what sort of foundational talent is available. They're at the stage where they need a game-changer (or two) and it's tough to rely on that degree of impact being made available. They're probably going to need to make some sacrifices re: age and term for insta-upgrades and it's fair to wonder if they should even necessarily be that aggressive.

They've got to nail a lot of transactions to have much faith in their direction because so much of their recent activity hasn't been all that ambitious. All the Carbery hire has shown to this point is how dysfunctional they are 5v5. And it's not like it's just star power needed. They're also fundamentally not very good in terms of underlying play so it's not like they just need finishing touch here and there. They need building blocks and perhaps quite a few.

Given enough time and suckage they'll bumble their way into an ascending core group eventually. But their team-building, responsiveness and culture leaves something to be desired. They not only need impact talent but consistent leaders that still have it and elevate those around them. It's a tall order securing in short order. But even if they're shut out in that regard this summer there are secondary strengths they could develop, mostly a more committed defensive checking game. It's still hard to do with Ovechkin & Carlson as headliners but not impossible with the right pieces added (more along the lines of the next Niskanen/Orpik). This blueline overall has likely run its course re: peak ability and upside IMO. I'd definitely move at least one of Jensen/TVR and be open to dramatically restructuring the back-end to provide more impactful, committed two-way play.

 

[g00n]

Last year, Eller netted a 2nd from the Avs with 37 percent retained on a $3,500,000 contract. imo, Dowd is stronger defensively than Eller but Lars is a more impactful player overall, basically a 3C compared to a 4C. Eller had by far a higher salary, and was a UFA at season's end. I think Dowd, with the extra year on his low-cost contract, should return a 2nd with no retention, and depending on the trading partner possibly a fringe roster player who can help here or in Hershey.

The cost of the contract will be a big factor for sure. Cheaper contract = more chance it returns a 1st.

That said, I'm not sure anyone pays that unless they're incredibly desperate and going for it all.

What club really, REALLY needs a 4C so badly they can't do without it, and are poised for a deep Cup run?

 

[Cappy76]

The cost of the contract will be a big factor for sure. Cheaper contract = more chance it returns a 1st.

That said, I'm not sure anyone pays that unless they're incredibly desperate and going for it all.

What club really, REALLY needs a 4C so badly they can't do without it, and are poised for a deep Cup run?

I feel like Edmonton could really use a shut down c in dowd. They don't have problems with offense they need to be able to shut down other teams top guys. If they can't go out and find a goalie Dowd could be just what they need.

 

[HeyMattyB]

I feel like Edmonton could really use a shut down c in dowd. They don't have problems with offense they need to be able to shut down other teams top guys. If they can't go out and find a goalie Dowd could be just what they need.

Not only could EDM really use Dowd, but IIRC they could also use a 2RD (like Jensen). And of course, their goaltending isn't ideal. (Ship out Kuemper--who I think they had interest in before signing Campbell--or sell high on Lindgren.) Package 'em all together for a one-stop-shop trade experience!

That said, outside of a possible 1st, what does EDM have that the Caps would want (particularly, as I mentioned in a separate thread, if GMBM is looking for another Sandin-esque trade-deadline deal). Holloway? Broberg? I haven't followed/watched either of those guys, but from skimming the EDM boards, it seems like both are underperforming (albeit in less than ideal circumstances/deployment) to the degree that EDM might be ready to cut bait. Then again, from skimming the EDM boards, it also seems like they are untouchable, can't-miss prospects. So who knows. Not me!

 

[Cappy76]

Not only could EDM really use Dowd, but IIRC they could also use a 2RD (like Jensen). And of course, their goaltending isn't ideal. (Ship out Kuemper--who I think they had interest in before signing Campbell--or sell high on Lindgren.) Package 'em all together for a one-stop-shop trade experience!

That said, outside of a possible 1st, what does EDM have that the Caps would want (particularly, as I mentioned in a separate thread, if GMBM is looking for another Sandin-esque trade-deadline deal). Holloway? Broberg? I haven't followed/watched either of those guys, but from skimming the EDM boards, it seems like both are underperforming (albeit in less than ideal circumstances/deployment) to the degree that EDM might be ready to cut bait. Then again, from skimming the EDM boards, it also seems like they are untouchable, can't-miss prospects. So who knows. Not me!

X Bourgault I think is another guy that at some point received decent praise.

 

[RandyHolt]

If I were a GM i would only sign players with proven fat cat disease to 1 year deals only. And otherwise avoid them altogether.

@Ridley Simon said GMs already know players when I said sell him as a power forward. Duh. But some GM is going to grossly overpay 'Mo Money Please' this summer with far too many years so we'll see who knows him or not. Book it Danno!

Hockey GMs are often former players. That didn't graduate... high school. Even if they did many heads were punching bags. They aren't all the sharpest knives in the drawer.

 

[Neil Racki]

Mantha also had a kid last year and has another on the way ... becoming a parent can rapidly mature a person of previously arrested development.

 

[Kalopsia]

Not only could EDM really use Dowd, but IIRC they could also use a 2RD (like Jensen). And of course, their goaltending isn't ideal. (Ship out Kuemper--who I think they had interest in before signing Campbell--or sell high on Lindgren.) Package 'em all together for a one-stop-shop trade experience!

That said, outside of a possible 1st, what does EDM have that the Caps would want (particularly, as I mentioned in a separate thread, if GMBM is looking for another Sandin-esque trade-deadline deal). Holloway? Broberg? I haven't followed/watched either of those guys, but from skimming the EDM boards, it seems like both are underperforming (albeit in less than ideal circumstances/deployment) to the degree that EDM might be ready to cut bait. Then again, from skimming the EDM boards, it also seems like they are untouchable, can't-miss prospects. So who knows. Not me!

Lindgren has an .882 Sv% in calendar year 2024, one of the worst in the NHL. The window to sell high on him passed a while ago, I don't think he has any trade value at this point.

 

[Ridley Simon]

If I were a GM i would only sign players with proven fat cat disease to 1 year deals only. And otherwise avoid them altogether.

@Ridley Simon said GMs already know players when I said sell him as a power forward. Duh. But some GM is going to grossly overpay 'Mo Money Please' this summer with far too many years so we'll see who knows him or not. Book it Danno!

Hockey GMs are often former players. That didn't graduate... high school. Even if they did many heads were punching bags. They aren't all the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Now you sound like @twabby = any idiot can be an NHL GM!

LOL. It’s never that simple amigo

 

[g00n]

McPhee isn't the GM in VGK anymore but he's the President of Hockey Ops. So he may have had serious pull in this move, which brings up the possibility that this could've been a favor in either direction between colleagues.

Maybe we owe them for taking Mantha off our hands when nobody else was making offers. Maybe the opposite is true and we gave a break on price. Hard to know for sure.

But I do think since Vegas are trying to climb back into a playoff spot, if they surge and Mantha shows out in the playoffs he could make a lot of GMs forget about the contract year thing, and really cash in.

 

[hockeykicker]

If tarasenko got mid round picks then mantha was a steal

 

[HeyMattyB]

Uh.. unless I'm missing something, I'll happily take the return we got for Mantha over this!