Manitoba Moose / MTS Centre group talking to NHL

[Confucius]

Bottom line is if you have a team in a city and nobody wants to own it, the team has to move. If you have a guy who can afford the team, meaning he can absorb the losses, he should be able to put the team where he wants. As long as he doesn't infringe on another teams territory, and even that is debatable.

 

[LadyStanley]

Bottom line is if you have a team in a city and nobody wants to own it, the team has to move. If you have a guy who can afford the team, meaning he can absorb the losses, he should be able to put the team where he wants. As long as he doesn't infringe on another teams territory, and even that is debatable.

Part of the bankruptcy court rulings that came out from the Phoenix situation is that league owns the rights to any territory not currently accessed.

Secondly, the league probably has a priority of regions not currently serviced by the league. I can't think they'd be overly happy to have someone jump "way" down the list, missing "better" (per someone's criteria) opportunities. However, having an owner for a specific locale might change their mind (and/or cause a reorganization or priority).

 

[Confucius]

However, having an owner for a specific locale might change their mind (and/or cause a reorganization or priority).

That's the important part in my opinion. Bettman can have all the plans in the world on where a team should go. Bottom line is who will put up the money to go there and can they afford to keep it there. In the end he has no choice but to go where the money is.

 

[JET LAND]

It would be nice to have the Jets to kick around again !!!

That would be ironic since some of your best player's are from Winnipeg.

 

[JET LAND]

Everyone knows that Chipman and TN are the ownership group behind the scenes. They own MTS, they have a steady stream of entertainment money coming in (the facililty is very busy from what I hear) and would not have pay outrageous lease payments (to themselves).
.

Ah no they do not own MTS (FAIL) and the money man in all of this is not Chipman, its David Thomson as in 29 Billion worth (Check Forbes) I think Number 24 worldwide and he just happens to own 33% of MTS Center. An Arena to play with "Gee what could I put in a hockey arena to make some scratch??" Yeah thats the ticket You go Davie Baby!!

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Here's my conspiracy theory:

I think whenever a struggling team goes up for sale, the NHL always has a contingency relocation plan if it ultimately comes to that. Obviously the league doesn't want to see any teams relocate, but they're aware of interested ownership groups and which cities they would want to relocate the team to. If the team does look like it will have to be relocated, they league acquaints the group looking to sell the team with the group looking to buy and relocate the team.

I believe this was the case in 2007 when the Predators were sold. I believe that the league ultimately wanted the team to be sold to Boots Del Baggio and others and move to Kansas City if they had to relocate, but Craig Leipold decided instead to sell the team to Balsillie.

Because Kansas City missed their opportunity, when Phoenix looked like they might be forced to relocate, the league wanted Moyes to sell the team to Reinsdorf, as there was speculation that he wanted to move the team to Kansas City as well.

However, with Reinsdorf no longer in the picture, I think the Winnipeg group is now the contingency plan for the Coyotes if they are forced to be relocated.

I know, it's a stretch, but it's just my theory.

 

[allin4466]

I haven't read through 40 pages of this, so forgive me if this is a common thread or comment, but would TNE(ie Thompson) be willing to absorb some hockey related losses for the extra coin it would bring to his arena?

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Here's my conspiracy theory:

I think whenever a struggling team goes up for sale, the NHL always has a contingency relocation plan if it ultimately comes to that. Obviously the league doesn't want to see any teams relocate, but they're aware of interested ownership groups and which cities they would want to relocate the team to. If the team does look like it will have to be relocated, they league acquaints the group looking to sell the team with the group looking to buy and relocate the team.

I believe this was the case in 2007 when the Predators were sold. I believe that the league ultimately wanted the team to be sold to Boots Del Baggio and others and move to Kansas City if they had to relocate, but Craig Leipold decided instead to sell the team to Balsillie.

Because Kansas City missed their opportunity, when Phoenix looked like they might be forced to relocate, the league wanted Moyes to sell the team to Reinsdorf, as there was speculation that he wanted to move the team to Kansas City as well.

However, with Reinsdorf no longer in the picture, I think the Winnipeg group is now the contingency plan for the Coyotes if they are forced to be relocated.

I know, it's a stretch, but it's just my theory.

I don't think it's a stretch at all.

The NHL and AEG had who as their front man for any Predators move to KC? William "Boots" Del Baggio, III, a now convicted fraudster. I believe AEG lost some money on that one.

Who did the NHL line up to buy the Tampa Bay Lightning? Len Barrie? Not a very good plan.

One of the major owners of the Nashville Predators has an IRS tax lien on his house last I heard.

Cohen, majority owner of the Florida Panthers, basically gave away any equity he had in the team to his less wealthy minority partners, because he was tired of paying for the loses. Does that remind anyone of the situation in Tampa Bay or Phoenix? It's like giving the keys to your over mortgaged house to the bankers.

We could go on and on. The NHL is running out of second-tier owners to keep certain markets a float, especially in the current economic climate where funding is hard to come by.

Meanwhile, Mark Chipman has been building his connections within the NHL and has established his business partners over the years. One of the co-owners of the MTS Centre, True North Sports and Entertainment and the Manitoba Moose happens to be one of the wealthiest persons in the world. Believe it or not, there are also some very wealthy individuals and families in Winnipeg that are or were involved with True North and would be in the mix either as owners or corporate sponsors should the NHL return to Winnipeg. Some of these individuals give millions away to charity each year, but you think they wouldn't be interested at all in re-establishing an NHL franchise in Winnipeg?

There is no way Mark Chipman would be pursuing an NHL team without solid backing. And Winnipeg would not be mentioned, or taken seriously, as a potential relocation city by the NHL, if there was no solid backing.

I don't think this private email from Bettman to Daly, disclosed in an Arizona court last year, was ever posted in this thread, although it has been mentioned. Read the original here:

What I find most amazing from some of my fellow Canadian posters, is the idea that professional hockey could some how be wildly successful long-term in places like Nashville, TN, Raleigh, NC, Sunrise, FL or Atlanta, GA, etc., but yet impossible in Canadian cities such as Winnipeg.

GHOST

 

[King_Stannis]

This isn't 2006. Winnipeg is most certainly on the league's radar. I find it laughable when people still sneer about the possibility of Winnipeg returning the to the NHL. They simply have no clue as to the work being done behind the scenes.

However, that does not mean that Winnipeg will have a team without a shadow of a doubt. Things have to fall in place, timing needs to be right, and the right team would need to be ready to move. All the rumor mongering about Winnipeg lately makes for juicy gossip, but I suggest any pro-Winnipeg folks take Mark Chipman's M.O. and simply fly under the radar, going for the low-key approach. Perhaps it's the comparison with the blundering Balsillie, but I continue to be impressed by Mark Chipman for what he hasn't said, yet what we know he is quietly doing behind the scenes. It may pay off, it may not. It may just not be meant to be. But this is the best chance Winnipeg will ever have to get back into the NHL.

 

[Jeffrey93]

This isn't 2006. Winnipeg is most certainly on the league's radar. I find it laughable when people still sneer about the possibility of Winnipeg returning the to the NHL. They simply have no clue as to the work being done behind the scenes.

However, that does not mean that Winnipeg will have a team without a shadow of a doubt. Things have to fall in place, timing needs to be right, and the right team would need to be ready to move. All the rumor mongering about Winnipeg lately makes for juicy gossip, but I suggest any pro-Winnipeg folks take Mark Chipman's M.O. and simply fly under the radar, going for the low-key approach. Perhaps it's the comparison with the blundering Balsillie, but I continue to be impressed by Mark Chipman for what he hasn't said, yet what we know he is quietly doing behind the scenes. It may pay off, it may not. It may just not be meant to be. But this is the best chance Winnipeg will ever have to get back into the NHL.

This post is kind of funny....under the radar/low-key approach but then "what we KNOW he is quietly doing behind the scenes".
If it's low-key and under the radar...you wouldn't know if he's doing anything...which you don't. You assume that he is doing something even though you haven't heard of him doing anything or saying anything about what he is doing.
Bit of a leap of faith here...no?

 

[King_Stannis]

This post is kind of funny....under the radar/low-key approach but then "what we KNOW he is quietly doing behind the scenes".
If it's low-key and under the radar...you wouldn't know if he's doing anything...which you don't. You assume that he is doing something even though you haven't heard of him doing anything or saying anything about what he is doing.
Bit of a leap of faith here...no?

Just because he isn't saying anything, doesn't mean that others aren't. It's well known he met with the league while ago and put forth some sort of presentation.

But yeah, you're probably right. The best way to handle this is to start taking deposits on season tickets right now and opening up mod delete websites on Making it Seven.

 

[Brominator]

This post is kind of funny....under the radar/low-key approach but then "what we KNOW he is quietly doing behind the scenes".
If it's low-key and under the radar...you wouldn't know if he's doing anything...which you don't. You assume that he is doing something even though you haven't heard of him doing anything or saying anything about what he is doing.
Bit of a leap of faith here...no?

I think you're not fully understanding the point. Chipman has gone on record saying that should an NHL team become available, he and his group of investors would pursue an NHL team. He has said this in local interviews as well as with Peter Mansbridge on the National. So, we do know that something is going on. He has also confirmed that he and his group has presented Winnipeg as a destination for the NHL, which was received well according to him. Admittedly, we don't know that he is currently in negotiations with any NHL team (Thrashers or Coyotes, or other) to bring NHL back for next season. Certainly, there are plenty of rumours that he is, but the reality is, no team is (officially) available.

In contrast, Balsillie made press conferences, started websites, took season ticket deposits, etc. in his pursuit of a team. I think in hindsight, we can safely say that was the wrong approach.

So while Chipman isn't shouting from the rooftops about his desire for an NHL team, we know he is actively pursuing a team.

 

[Jeffrey93]

I think you're not fully understanding the point. Chipman has gone on record saying that should an NHL team become available, he and his group of investors would pursue an NHL team. He has said this in local interviews as well as with Peter Mansbridge on the National. So, we do know that something is going on. He has also confirmed that he and his group has presented Winnipeg as a destination for the NHL, which was received well according to him. Admittedly, we don't know that he is currently in negotiations with any NHL team (Thrashers or Coyotes, or other) to bring NHL back for next season. Certainly, there are plenty of rumours that he is, but the reality is, no team is (officially) available.

I'm understanding the point. And you did it again...somebody says they will do something and you are assuming that means they are actively doing it.

In contrast, Balsillie made press conferences, started websites, took season ticket deposits, etc. in his pursuit of a team. I think in hindsight, we can safely say that was the wrong approach.

Totally different scenarios.

So while Chipman isn't shouting from the rooftops about his desire for an NHL team, we know he is actively pursuing a team.

No..you really don't.

 

[dkehler]

I'm understanding the point. And you did it again...somebody says they will do something and you are assuming that means they are actively doing it.

Totally different scenarios.

No..you really don't.

Yes, we really do.

 

[Brominator]

I'm understanding the point. And you did it again...somebody says they will do something and you are assuming that means they are actively doing it.

Chipman isn't a headline-grabbing type personality. If he says he's pursuing an NHL team it isn't because he enjoys being constantly pestered by Winnipeg media about how the "sale" is going.

Chipman has a lot to lose if he formally announces he is going after a specific team. In the process, he takes attention away from his AHL team. Winnipeggers are still reluctant to accept the Moose because they feel we deserve major-league hockey. Also, what if he announces he is going after a specific team and fails? He risks holding the city's emotions for ransom all over again. Landing an NHL team, especially via relocation, is very tricky. Why would anyone complicate things further by getting the media involved?

Finally, after the Balsillie situation, the NHL has pretty much made it clear that it does not want prospective NHL owners making announcements of any kind, until the team is announcing it is officially relocating. It is not fair to the fans or players, and if there is still a chance of keeping the team in its current location, any preliminary announcements could jeopardize that. Basically, how Balsillie handled the Pens/Preds/Yotes situation is the textbook example of how not to get an NHL team.

Chipman stated that he is pursuing an NHL team and has been in talks with the NHL re Winnipeg. I am assuming he isn't lying.

If you're waiting for a Balsillie-type confirmation, it aint gonna happen. Thankfully, if you're a Winnipegger.

 

[King_Stannis]

Chipman isn't a headline-grabbing type personality. If he says he's pursuing an NHL team it isn't because he enjoys being constantly pestered by Winnipeg media about how the "sale" is going.

Chipman has a lot to lose if he formally announces he is going after a specific team. In the process, he takes attention away from his AHL team. Winnipeggers are still reluctant to accept the Moose because they feel we deserve major-league hockey. Also, what if he announces he is going after a specific team and fails? He risks holding the city's emotions for ransom all over again. Landing an NHL team, especially via relocation, is very tricky. Why would anyone complicate things further by getting the media involved?

Finally, after the Balsillie situation, the NHL has pretty much made it clear that it does not want prospective NHL owners making announcements of any kind, until the team is announcing it is officially relocating. It is not fair to the fans or players, and if there is still a chance of keeping the team in its current location, any preliminary announcements could jeopardize that. Basically, how Balsillie handled the Pens/Preds/Yotes situation is the textbook example of how not to get an NHL team.

Chipman stated that he is pursuing an NHL team and has been in talks with the NHL re Winnipeg. I am assuming he isn't lying.

If you're waiting for a Balsillie-type confirmation, it aint gonna happen. Thankfully, if you're a Winnipegger.

Well said, bromine. I'm of the opinion that one shouldn't discount rumors entirely, but one shouldn't read anything specific into them. I think all the rumors surrounding Winnipeg means that there is something going on. But that something doesn't necessarily mean they are in active negotiations to buy a team. Maybe they're kicking the tires, so to speak. Maybe the NHL is sending out feelers. Who knows.

 

[LadyStanley]

Admittedly, we don't know that he is currently in negotiations with any NHL team (Thrashers or Coyotes, or other) to bring NHL back for next season.

No way he's actively negotiating about Phoenix with an active LOI from IEH.

(Now, he could have provided a "we're really interested if relocation comes into play" statement, privately. But as the NHL has stated they're doing all they can to find a local owner, my guess is that's on the back burner.)

 

[Brominator]

No way he's actively negotiating about Phoenix with an active LOI from IEH.

(Now, he could have provided a "we're really interested if relocation comes into play" statement, privately. But as the NHL has stated they're doing all they can to find a local owner, my guess is that's on the back burner.)

Good point. I wouldn't say "no way," because anything is possible, but it's unlikely TN is actively negotiating about the Coyotes. However, as far as I'm aware, IEH is the last "local" group interested in the Coyotes. If their deal falls through, relocation is very likely. Which is why it would be prudent for TN and the NHL to be talking to each other in a "be ready when the time comes" sort of way.

Also, at this point, the NHL may know a lot about the IEH sale process, is aware of fatal problems to the sale, and is actively preparing for it to fall through. This, of course, is 100% speculation, but it's not beyond the realm of possible.

 

[MaskedSonja]

From what I've read in this thread, the group is trying very hard to do things "by the book", and I'm sure the NHL appreciates it. It wouldn't surprise me if the group sent a "by the way" letter as referenced in the previous post, but they're willing to wait this situation out it seems.

Interesting times ahead I suspect, whichever way this goes.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Chipman isn't a headline-grabbing type personality. If he says he's pursuing an NHL team it isn't because he enjoys being constantly pestered by Winnipeg media about how the "sale" is going.

Chipman has a lot to lose if he formally announces he is going after a specific team. In the process, he takes attention away from his AHL team. Winnipeggers are still reluctant to accept the Moose because they feel we deserve major-league hockey. Also, what if he announces he is going after a specific team and fails? He risks holding the city's emotions for ransom all over again. Landing an NHL team, especially via relocation, is very tricky. Why would anyone complicate things further by getting the media involved?

Finally, after the Balsillie situation, the NHL has pretty much made it clear that it does not want prospective NHL owners making announcements of any kind, until the team is announcing it is officially relocating. It is not fair to the fans or players, and if there is still a chance of keeping the team in its current location, any preliminary announcements could jeopardize that. Basically, how Balsillie handled the Pens/Preds/Yotes situation is the textbook example of how not to get an NHL team.

Chipman stated that he is pursuing an NHL team and has been in talks with the NHL re Winnipeg. I am assuming he isn't lying.

If you're waiting for a Balsillie-type confirmation, it aint gonna happen. Thankfully, if you're a Winnipegger.

If you have followed the Balsillie ordeals you'd know that other than filing paperwork in an Arizona court they never once made any sort of statement first. There was already a story and comments were made regarding it. With Nashville nobody had any idea Balsillie was even negotiating with Leipold until I believe Darren Dreger broke the story.
When the first arena deal was negotiated with the City of Hamilton nobody had any idea who was behind it.
So you saying how he handled the "Pens/Preds/Yotes situation is the textbook example of how not to get an NHL team" is pretty erroneous. You can say that about the Coyotes attempt....but the other two were handled quietly until it was already public knowledge that he was involved.

Now...onto this Chipman stuff. Just realize what you're saying or what you've said. It's basically been "You won't hear anything about it." and "We KNOW it's happening", if you don't hear anything about it you have no way to know it's happening.

Like I said...it's a leap of faith. I'm not saying you're wrong...I'm just saying that all you have to support this "we do know that something is going on" is your faith that there is.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Good point. I wouldn't say "no way," because anything is possible, but it's unlikely TN is actively negotiating about the Coyotes. However, as far as I'm aware, IEH is the last "local" group interested in the Coyotes. If their deal falls through, relocation is very likely. Which is why it would be prudent for TN and the NHL to be talking to each other in a "be ready when the time comes" sort of way.

Also, at this point, the NHL may know a lot about the IEH sale process, is aware of fatal problems to the sale, and is actively preparing for it to fall through. This, of course, is 100% speculation, but it's not beyond the realm of possible.

I'm not sure how much they can be doing legally while still in negotiations with IEH. If a Letter of Intent is accepted by the NHL from IEH, I'm sure it includes some sort of exclusivity period. If the NHL is negotiating with Ice Edge and at the same time working back-up deals with someone else....if I were Ice Edge I'd be pretty ticked I'm spending all this money to try to get a deal done while my negotiating partner is obviously not negotiating in good faith as they are making side-deals with other groups. I'm sure the City of Glendale wouldn't be very happy either.

 

[Brominator]

If you have followed the Balsillie ordeals you'd know that other than filing paperwork in an Arizona court they never once made any sort of statement first. There was already a story and comments were made regarding it. With Nashville nobody had any idea Balsillie was even negotiating with Leipold until I believe Darren Dreger broke the story.
When the first arena deal was negotiated with the City of Hamilton nobody had any idea who was behind it.
So you saying how he handled the "Pens/Preds/Yotes situation is the textbook example of how not to get an NHL team" is pretty erroneous. You can say that about the Coyotes attempt....but the other two were handled quietly until it was already public knowledge that he was involved.

Now...onto this Chipman stuff. Just realize what you're saying or what you've said. It's basically been "You won't hear anything about it." and "We KNOW it's happening", if you don't hear anything about it you have no way to know it's happening.

Like I said...it's a leap of faith. I'm not saying you're wrong...I'm just saying that all you have to support this "we do know that something is going on" is your faith that there is.

http://makeitseven.ca/ I think the Coyotes attempt is precisely why Balsillie is vilified in NHL circles. This website was a thorn in the side of the NHL and pretty much sealed Balsillie's fate with regard to the NHL's opinion of him.

With regard to TN, we'll have to agree to disagree. I maintain that there is plenty of evidence that Chipman and co. have made it clear that they are ready, willing, and able to buy an NHL team when one becomes available. Translation: When one becomes available, they will be in discussions with the NHL.

Incidentally, the current state of affairs w.r.t. Winnipeg's NHL chances is light years ahead of where it was just 3 or 4 years ago. Now it is generally acknowledged that Winnipeg is a legitimate destination for a relocation or expansion. It is also now taken for granted that Winnipeg indeed has an ownership group in place with enough capital to buy a team. A few years ago, mere discussion of the NHL coming back to the peg was met with mocking laughter. This change alone has been encouraging to me, and has helped tide me over until THE announcement is made.

 

[Jeffrey93]

http://makeitseven.ca/ I think the Coyotes attempt is precisely why Balsillie is vilified in NHL circles. This website is a thorn in the side of the NHL and pretty much sealed Balsillie's fate with regard to the NHL's opinion of him.

Like I said....your comment would apply to the Coyotes bankruptcy fiasco....but not with the Predators or Penguins.

Also....NHL by-laws basically ask for things like this to be done. The by-laws don't stipulate how, but they require that you provide evidence of demand for NHL hockey in the potential market.

Balsillie followed the NHL by-laws foolishly close...almost rubbing their own rules in their face. And yes, the NHL didn't like it.

 

[Stej]

Now...onto this Chipman stuff. Just realize what you're saying or what you've said. It's basically been "You won't hear anything about it." and "We KNOW it's happening", if you don't hear anything about it you have no way to know it's happening.

Like I said...it's a leap of faith. I'm not saying you're wrong...I'm just saying that all you have to support this "we do know that something is going on" is your faith that there is.

What's so hard to understand??? I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially Chipman said that TN is actively investigating the possibility of securing an NHL team to bring to Winnipeg but that the media won't hear another word of it until it's a done deal.

It is not a leap of faith. Once again...

Step 1 = Declare that you are trying to get a team
Step 2 = Keep things under tight guard until said team becomes a reality

That how it's possible to "KNOW" he's working on it, but that we "won't hear anything about it" until it's done. You following me here? Your logic is very flawed. If you want to fall back on the argument that Winnipeg shouldn't/won't ever get a team (despite Chipman's effort), that can at least be debated. You can't keep arguing that Chipman isn't working on it.

 

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