making room for the young guns

[saltming]

Because those fans were and are uneducated any fan that believes he was the issue simply does not know what they are talking about in this instance

I'm a Kessel supporter too. I was using the analogy to show that fan don't just find scoring goals enough to justify a good player.
Imo Kessel was not the weakest link on that line.

 

[egd27]

Why? Give me one GOOD reason that the guy who has more goals and points in 5 fewer games should not get a shot in that spot? you don't get he is not a top line center because Kadri Isn't either.

Can you remind us why he has played in 5 fewer games?

 

[Drew75]

It IS a lot of rookies, which is why that would never happen under Babcock. Ever.

5 at the very most, could never be more than that.

Nylander, Marner, Brown are near guarantees.

Maybe Shoshnikov and Kapanen get in, but it's no guarantee.

I know I'm going to be shot, but the truth is, depending on how much weight Marner puts on between now and September, he COULD, POTENTIALLY, end up back in the OHL ala Domi / Dvorak for another season.

I'm not saying he doesn't have the talent to play in the NHL, he does - but unless he's big enough, there is no way the brass takes a chance on an underweight prized prospect getting killed in the NHL. This management group is more patient than its fans - and as frustrating as it could be for some here, I just can't see Shanny and Co. taking any sort of chance if the kid is still anywhere as small as he is now - and their options are limited.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Is it possible to have this many rookies on next seasons team and we have to make room.

Kasperi Kapanen
Connor Brown
Andreas Johnson
William Nylander
Mitch Marner
Zach Hyman
Nikita Soshnikov
Josh Leivo
2016 1st pick?

I view them in 3 categories:

Potential top of the line players who will be far to good to learn by being sent down:
William Nylander
Mitch Marner

All reaching that stage where they'll need to get NHL minutes. Leafs will create a competition by opening up something like 3 spots. Not all of them will make it next (or ever) just like Holzer, D'Amigo, Frattin, Caputi, etc). They also are all good candidates to get dealt out like Colborne or Stalberg once were and I'm betting we'll try for a 2/3 piece deal for something we really like/want (or a take with cap troubles):
Kasperi Kapanen
Connor Brown
Andreas Johnson
Zach Hyman
Nikita Soshnikov
Josh Leivo

Unless it's Auston Matthews very likely sent back to junior for another year:
2016 1st pick

 

[BigWilly]

I don't think if Leivo is going to stay with the Leafs for long

Why not?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Why not?

Because he has been expected to make the team for a couple years now and failed. Besides that the forward depth is MUCH better than it was even 2 years ago he has Benn passed by multiple guys

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Because he has been expected to make the team for a couple years now and failed. Besides that the forward depth is MUCH better than it was even 2 years ago he has Benn passed by multiple guys

No he hasn't been passed by multiple prospects at all. He is one of the Marlies key players and works extremely hard. They aren't rushing him. That doesn't mean this guy is disregarded.

Leivo has been showing his best promise this season so far. I wouldn't quit on him if i were you.

 

[indigobuffalo]

The Red Wings (and by proxy, Babcock and Shanahan) have an established guideline of 150 games in the AHL before a prospect "graduates" to the NHL.

With a few exceptions... But it's a good guideline to temper our expectations to.

With that in mind:
Here are our top 10 prospects per Hockey's Future:
#1 Mitch Marner: 0 GP
#2
William Nylander: 100 GP if you count the SweHL, which is a Men's League
#3 Kasperi Kapanen: 20 GP
#4 Scott Harrington: 131 GP (10 at NHL level)
#5 Connor Brown: 89 GP
#6 Stuart Percy: 163 GP (including 9 GP at NHL level)
#7 Antoine Bibeau: 39 GP
#8 Brendan Leipsic: 94 GP
#9 Andreas Johnson: 164 GP (All are in the SweHL)
#10 Jeremy Bracco: 0 GP

 

[zeke]

timashov should be in there. probably closer to the top than the bottom, too.

 

[zeke]

1 Nylander
2 Marner
3 Timashov
4 Kapanen
5 Brown
6 Johnson
7 Dermott
8 Harrington
9 Percy
10 Bracco

 

[WilliamNylander]

So Marner and Nylander are locks... If we draft top 5 then the 2016 pick is pretty much a lock too. Assuming Marner Nylander and Matthews/Puljujarvi all slot into the top 9, we need to make at least three forward spots. Connor brown is really close to a lock too, and Soshnikov has been great/seems ready.

So that's 5/9 forwards that'll be rookies next year at least. Maybe Leivo in a 4th line role?

On D I think Percy and Loov both deserve long looks in camp. If we get that Russian RHD (which it seems like we will) then we'll probably have to dispose of Polak and Phaneuf to make room for at least two kids on D...

So 5F 2D for 7 rookies next year is my prediction

 

[highslot]

Loov & Percy better hope some D get moved from the Leafs.

Brown, might extend into next season to properly recover, unless he makes a spectacular recovery this season.

Kapanen, maybe. Haven't seen enough of him so far, but he looks good with very high skill level & excellent shot when he's here. May extend into next year in the AHL.

Hyman, no.

Andreas Johnson, I don't know, some time in the AHL may be beneficial & probably most likely unless he is amazing at camp.

William Nylander, yes.

Mitch Marner, yes, but I would not be overly surprised if they sent him back to the OHL, but still yes.

Nikita Soshnikov, yes. He's good with huge upside.

Josh Leivo, probably, not sure though.

nylander yes.
marner yes. it's stupid to put him in another year in the ohl.
percy yes.
leivo yes. or traded.

loov maybe
soshnikov maybe
zaitsev maybe
johnson maybe/no
kapanen maybe/no

brown, no. injury will take a while
granberg, no.
hyman no.

ideally shielded by winnik and komorov.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So Marner and Nylander are locks... If we draft top 5 then the 2016 pick is pretty much a lock too. Assuming Marner Nylander and Matthews/Puljujarvi all slot into the top 9, we need to make at least three forward spots. Connor brown is really close to a lock too, and Soshnikov has been great/seems ready.

So that's 5/9 forwards that'll be rookies next year at least. Maybe Leivo in a 4th line role?

On D I think Percy and Loov both deserve long looks in camp. If we get that Russian RHD (which it seems like we will) then we'll probably have to dispose of Polak and Phaneuf to make room for at least two kids on D...

So 5F 2D for 7 rookies next year is my prediction

7 rookies? That's WAY to many

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

nylander yes.
marner yes. it's stupid to put him in another year in the ohl.
percy yes.
leivo yes. or traded.

loov maybe
soshnikov maybe
zaitsev maybe
johnson maybe/no
kapanen maybe/no

brown, no. injury will take a while
granberg, no.
hyman no.

ideally shielded by winnik and komorov.

Leivo will be traded

 

[Ovate]

So Marner and Nylander are locks... If we draft top 5 then the 2016 pick is pretty much a lock too. Assuming Marner Nylander and Matthews/Puljujarvi all slot into the top 9, we need to make at least three forward spots. Connor brown is really close to a lock too, and Soshnikov has been great/seems ready.

So that's 5/9 forwards that'll be rookies next year at least. Maybe Leivo in a 4th line role?

On D I think Percy and Loov both deserve long looks in camp. If we get that Russian RHD (which it seems like we will) then we'll probably have to dispose of Polak and Phaneuf to make room for at least two kids on D...

So 5F 2D for 7 rookies next year is my prediction

Agreed that Nylander is a lock.

Marner joining the NHL team will probably happen if the only alternative is being back with the Knights. He's won't necessarily good enough to meet the Leaf's standards for development before a prospect gets into the NHL, but it's better than keeping him in the AHL. Maybe some out of the box thinking with him going to Europe, or something.

Unless we get Matthews, the 2016 1st isn't coming into the NHL. Strome and Marner this year both were sent back, and they were better than the average 3/4 OA picks.

Brown is definitely not a lock. He had a great start to last season, but a slow start to this one and then he was hit by injuries.

Soshnikov/Leivo/Hyman/Bailey/Panik are all competing for a spot. If one comes up this year (probably Leivo), then we might see another up next year.

On defence, Percy and Loov are the only players who will be pushing for a spot next year. Percy's a lock in my mind, but Loov could end up being kept down again. I'm not confident in Loov's ability to take a spot from Marincin/Harrington/Percy/Corrado. If he does come up, it'll probably be as a 7th or 8th D and won't see much ice time.

We'll only see 4-5 on the team next year. Nylander, Marney, Percy, and one of the older Marlies.

 

[613Leafer]

The Red Wings (and by proxy, Babcock and Shanahan) have an established guideline of 150 games in the AHL before a prospect "graduates" to the NHL.

With a few exceptions... But it's a good guideline to temper our expectations to.

With that in mind:
Here are our top 10 prospects per Hockey's Future:
#1 Mitch Marner: 0 GP
#2
William Nylander: 100 GP if you count the SweHL, which is a Men's League
#3 Kasperi Kapanen: 20 GP
#4 Scott Harrington: 131 GP (10 at NHL level)
#5 Connor Brown: 89 GP
#6 Stuart Percy: 163 GP (including 9 GP at NHL level)
#7 Antoine Bibeau: 39 GP
#8 Brendan Leipsic: 94 GP
#9 Andreas Johnson: 164 GP (All are in the SweHL)
#10 Jeremy Bracco: 0 GP

Detroit due to their success have also never drafted top 10 in that time span. You can't really compare the development time required for a 4th OA pick like Marner to a later round pick like Tatar or Nyquist.

Larkin is the highest draft pick Detroit has had since 1991, and thats only at 15th OA. He made the NHL one year after being drafted. So I think it's safe to say that even the Red Wings would make exceptions for exceptional prospects.

 

[Ovate]

Detroit due to their success have also never drafted top 10 in that time span. You can't really compare the development time required for a 4th OA pick like Marner to a later round pick like Tatar or Nyquist.

Larkin is the highest draft pick Detroit has had since 1991, and thats only at 15th OA. He made the NHL one year after being drafted. So I think it's safe to say that even the Red Wings would make exceptions for exceptional prospects.

That's a lot to do with their new coach though, who is much more in favour of playing youth than Babcock. Babcock is demanding that prospects be able to play the game his way before they earn a spot on the Leafs.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Agreed that Nylander is a lock.

Marner joining the NHL team will probably happen if the only alternative is being back with the Knights. He's won't necessarily good enough to meet the Leaf's standards for development before a prospect gets into the NHL, but it's better than keeping him in the AHL. Maybe some out of the box thinking with him going to Europe, or something.

Unless we get Matthews, the 2016 1st isn't coming into the NHL. Strome and Marner this year both were sent back, and they were better than the average 3/4 OA picks.

Brown is definitely not a lock. He had a great start to last season, but a slow start to this one and then he was hit by injuries.

Soshnikov/Leivo/Hyman/Bailey/Panik are all competing for a spot. If one comes up this year (probably Leivo), then we might see another up next year.

On defence, Percy and Loov are the only players who will be pushing for a spot next year. Percy's a lock in my mind, but Loov could end up being kept down again. I'm not confident in Loov's ability to take a spot from Marincin/Harrington/Percy/Corrado. If he does come up, it'll probably be as a 7th or 8th D and won't see much ice time.

We'll only see 4-5 on the team next year. Nylander, Marney, Percy, and one of the older Marlies.

Agree on most of this except that I think Matthews, Chychrun, Puljujarvi and Laine will all be in the NHL next year. No way Chychrun goes back - he's in the same breadth as Hannifin/Ekblad. Pulju and Laine are both huge guys who could step into a 2nd/3rd line role especially on a team like the Leafs with a lot of holes on the wings

 

[selltrade]

IMO once the trade deadline has come and gone, the Leafs will promote the Carricks, Leivos, Frattins, Arcobello to give them 1 last shot and maybe some of the older prospects such as Hyman and Bailey. On D you'll see Loov and Percy get sometime.... Next year will be the Nylander and Brown for sure. Marner will get another year in junior. Id expect both Loov and Percy to be fulltime Leafs next year.

 

[Mats13]

Why do people keep put Kadri on the top line? If his 7 points in 19 games don't prove he is NOT a top line guy what will?

Peter Holland has more goals and points in 5 fewer games give him that spot

Why? Give me one GOOD reason that the guy who has more goals and points in 5 fewer games should not get a shot in that spot? you don't get he is not a top line center because Kadri Isn't either.

Why not? He is doing better offensively than the guy currently there

Mike Babcock: "This is my two cents on Naz: He's been, in my opinion, the best forward on our team,"

"He competes every night, he's in on all the chances, he generates a ton. He's a way better player than I expected."

http://www.thescore.com/news/886769

But I'm sure you would know better with your ingenious "points are everything" argument...

 

[ACC1224]

Mike Babcock: "This is my two cents on Naz: He's been, in my opinion, the best forward on our team,"

"He competes every night, he's in on all the chances, he generates a ton. He's a way better player than I expected."

http://www.thescore.com/news/886769

But I'm sure you would know better with your ingenious "points are everything" argument...

It's hard to watch the games and not agree with Babcock here.

 

[Leafs87]

JVR-Kadri-Nylander

Holland-Bozak-Lupul

Leivo-Spaling-Brown

Winnik -Froese-Bailey

I'd like to see a forward group kind of like that next year. Unless we don't get a good deal on Mathias

 

[sommervr]

People are penciling in Percy and Loov. I suspect they don't watch the Marlies because Holl and Valiev are right there with Loov and Percy is a drop off from that group. Holl is just found money he is the surprise of the season so far.

Percy has the same problems he always had with a lack of physicality. He is really missing Granberg.

 

[zeke]

One thing to note is that all of Timashov, Dermott, Nielsen, Desrochers are AHL-eligible next year.

 

[Leafling]

Don't be disappointed if only a couple of rookies crack the starting lineup. History has shown that Babcock prefers to let the kids develop for quite some time at the AHL level.

That!!

I am a bit worried about this too, we might not see a lot of these young faces in the team even by the next year as Babs does like to work with a bit experienced players (he does bring the best out of them)

Hopefully that's where Shannahan and Lou come in...with the amount of prospects we have I think atleast Nylander and/or Brown/Leivo can and should join the team by the seasons end.