Makar and MacKinnon Vs Dahlin and Peak Peter Forsberg for this season?

Which duo would you take for this season?

  • Neutral fan take Mackinnon and Makar

    Votes: 92 46.0%
  • Neutral fan take Dahlin and Peak Peter Forsberg

    Votes: 76 38.0%
  • Colorado fan take MacKinnon and Makar

    Votes: 22 11.0%
  • Colorado fan take Dahlin and Peak Peter Forsberg

    Votes: 10 5.0%

  • Total voters
    200

Zman5778

Moderator
Oct 4, 2005
25,091
22,331
Cressona/Reading, PA
Makar in Buffalo would be like Makar playing on Colorado

Not. A. Chance.

Ralph would continuously chew out Dahlin for APPROACHING the offensive faceoff dot. Heaven forbid he go below it.

Imagine a Cale Makar who is scared to go below the faceoff dots. That's what you'd get by putting Makar in Buffalo under the Snake Oil Salesman.
 

Three On Zero

Deranged Oreo Dolphin Parking Instructor
Sponsor
Oct 9, 2012
28,956
25,636
Not. A. Chance.

Ralph would continuously chew out Dahlin for APPROACHING the offensive faceoff dot. Heaven forbid he go below it.

Imagine a Cale Makar who is scared to go below the faceoff dots. That's what you'd get by putting Makar in Buffalo under the Snake Oil Salesman.
Makar is also a much more talented player than Dahlin
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Guy Tetreault

Three On Zero

Deranged Oreo Dolphin Parking Instructor
Sponsor
Oct 9, 2012
28,956
25,636
He's not "much" more talented. Not at all. It's much closer than you give it credit for.

And the talent simply would not have mattered under Ralph, he was that bad.
The only reason this isn't a complete land slide and locked already is due to Forsberg. Makar and Dahlin are not close to comparable
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
25,025
14,418
Vancouver
You're right. I was off a year. Still, there's a lot of difference between a 21 year old entering the league and an eighteen year old.

Sure, and I think it’s something to still keep in mind for Dahlin’s potential, as he’s looking like he’s starting to enter the elite class of defenseman. But at the same time, Makar hit the ground running, so it’s impossible to know what he would have done at an earlier age, and if we’re just looking at taking them for this poll based on how good they are as players, not how good they might be, I’m not sure it matters. And it could be closer to their track records today, but I think Dahlin needs to show it for a bit longer than half a season or so.
 

triggrman

Where is Hipcheck85
Sponsor
May 8, 2002
31,747
7,534
Murfreesboro, TN
hfboards.com
Focusing on career numbers is weak. MacKinnon starting slow is irrelevant to who he is today, or has been the past 5 years, where he’s 3rd in league scoring and tied for 3rd in points per game, and has three Hart finalist seasons. Forsberg was better defensively and a better overall possession player, but production is relatively close between them.
but Forsberg played in a much lower scoring era.
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
25,025
14,418
Vancouver
but Forsberg played in a much lower scoring era.

Yes and no. Forsberg’s first couple years weren’t low scoring, and even during parts of the DPE, the number of PPs means that star players were scoring more relative to the league.

Regardless, using MacKinnon’s first few years brings his numbers down far more than the era did for Forsberg. Since 17-18 in his age 22 season, minus this year, he has 442 points in 338 games for a PPG of 1.31. Forsberg’s PPG from his age 22 season in 95-96 to his last year in his first Colorado stint in 03-04 was a near-identical 1.30 (691 in 533). The league average GPG during MacKinnon’s period is 2.98. The league average GPG during Forsberg’s period was 2.76. Adjusting Forsberg’s PPG to MacKinnon’s period would give a PPG of 1.40, or an extra 7 points per 82.

This is relatively minimal in itself, but moreso when we consider, like I whore above, the fact that scoring tended to be more concentrated at the top in the DPE. For instance, in 98-99, the top 10 players in terms of points per game (Jagr, Selanne, Sakic, Lindros, Forsberg, Fleury, Kariya, LeClair, Yasmin, Demitra), averaged 1.28 PPG, in a league where the average GPG was 2.63. Last year, with league average GPG at 3.11, the top 10 in PPG (McDavid, Kucherov, Matthews, Huberdeau, Gaudreau, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Marner, Kaprizov, Barkov) had an average of 1.40. So despite an increase in league scoring by 18%, the top 10 in PPG only increased their scoring by 9%. It’s a trend we see throughout the dead puck era, and likely cuts Forsberg’s slight point advantage down further.

Also, league scoring doesn’t affect scoring placements, and as I also wrote, MacKinnon is 3rd in scoring and tied for 3rd in points per game over those 5 years. Forsberg over that time frame is 5th in points and 3rd in points per game (2nd if you take away Lemieux). I don’t think there’s a huge gap between them in terms of production when comparing primes, and it’s certainly way closer than looking at career numbers.
 

mjd1001

Registered User
May 24, 2022
335
328
Watched some Sabres games lately, not just last night, and Dahlin is, if possible, very underrated. In addition to his scoring which has now caught up with the rest of the top guys, he plays great D. He is bigger than most think. He lays out people with open ice hits. He mixes things up on a regular basis with other guys. And he hardly ever, EVER, makes a bad exit from his own zone, he basically controlls the game for a below average Sabres team back there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: start winnin

SwedishFire

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
5,332
1,863
McKinnon and Makar easily.

McKinnon is already at Forsberg's level and Makar is MUCH better than Dahlin.
Forsberg wss toughrr and meaner, but both has superior stickhandling.

Makar being a small bit better than Dahlin.

If it was my own EA hockey game, the overall ratings would be mackinnon 92, peak Forsberg 95, Makar 93, Dahlin 84
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Sabresruletheschool

Ben White

Registered User
Dec 28, 2015
4,606
1,621
This didn’t age very well.

This is how I view it:
Forsberg > MacKinnon
Dahlin ~ Makar

The transition game in a vacuum would slightly benefit Mak + Mac but adding teammates Forsberg could pass to on the rush changes things, and down low and in the cycle man oh man would Force + Dahlin dominate.
 

Spilot23

Registered User
Dec 30, 2014
5,827
6,385
Forsberg Dahlin ainec



Makar on injured Colorado not looking so hot now is he lol
I'm more surprised that he's still almost PPG (26pts in 28 games) despite playing with Rantanen and half an AHL squad but yeah not looking so hot per his usual. He's still producing though but is being overused going almost 28-30min in some nights.
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
25,025
14,418
Vancouver
Forsberg Dahlin ainec



Makar on injured Colorado not looking so hot now is he lol

He wasn’t looking so hot before the injuries either though. Not sure what’s up with him this year, but I wouldn’t pin it on the team around him.
 

Hierso

Time to Rock
Oct 2, 2018
1,267
1,127
Is the reverse hit still legal? If so i'm going with Forsberg & Dahlin.
 

SillyRabbit

Trix Are For Kids
Jan 3, 2006
8,131
7,365
MacKinnon is definitely not on par with peak Forsberg.

Forsberg was the full package. For all of MacKinnon’s playoff scoring, I’d take Forsberg 10/10 times for a playoff run.
 

SensFan4lyfe

Registered User
Nov 2, 2022
142
101
People really seem to underrate Peter Forsberg. His peak was on a level MacKinnon hasn’t touched yet. His PPG career is 9th all-time and just 0.025 behind Crosby. And he did most of this in the dead puck era. MacKinnon may reach that level with time but he’s not quite there yet imo.

That said the current gap between Dahlin and Makar is so massive the small difference from Forsberg to MacKinnon can’t touch it.
the gap isnt that big this season

Dahlin has been better than Makar
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guy Tetreault

Ben White

Registered User
Dec 28, 2015
4,606
1,621
I'm more surprised that he's still almost PPG (26pts in 28 games) despite playing with Rantanen and half an AHL squad but yeah not looking so hot per his usual. He's still producing though but is being overused going almost 28-30min in some nights.
Welcome to Karlsson’s reality every day, at least Makar has Rantanen. Oh wait “Offensive Dmen produce more on worse teams” lol :sarcasm:
 

Buck Naked

Can't-Stand-Ya
Aug 18, 2016
3,794
5,770
Welcome to Karlsson’s reality every day, at least Makar has Rantanen. Oh wait “Offensive Dmen produce more on worse teams” lol :sarcasm:

411a098e-79b6-44b7-8b33-75d7182dc4bf_text.gif
 

mjd1001

Registered User
May 24, 2022
335
328
Forsberg wss toughrr and meaner, but both has superior stickhandling.

Makar being a small bit better than Dahlin.

If it was my own EA hockey game, the overall ratings would be mackinnon 92, peak Forsberg 95, Makar 93, Dahlin 84
You people haven't watched Dahline play all of this year...or for most of last year have you? He has been a dominant player. He's physical, he gets the puck out of the zone almost every single time. Hardly turns a puck over. Tage Thompsons goals this year? many set up directly by Dahlin. When he is on the ice for the Sabres he controls the game 100%. He very well might be playing like the best D-man in the league right now in every aspect of the game, and he has been doing it for a while now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guy Tetreault

SwedishFire

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
5,332
1,863
You people haven't watched Dahline play all of this year...or for most of last year have you? He has been a dominant player. He's physical, he gets the puck out of the zone almost every single time. Hardly turns a puck over. Tage Thompsons goals this year? many set up directly by Dahlin. When he is on the ice for the Sabres he controls the game 100%. He very well might be playing like the best D-man in the league right now in every aspect of the game, and he has been doing it for a while now.
Thats sweet thou. Ok,Dahlin 90
 

Spilot23

Registered User
Dec 30, 2014
5,827
6,385
Welcome to Karlsson’s reality every day, at least Makar has Rantanen. Oh wait “Offensive Dmen produce more on worse teams” lol :sarcasm:
At least "He produces only because he plays on a stacked team" argument will stop :sarcasm:
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
25,025
14,418
Vancouver
Uh the poll results surprise me

If we're looking for THIS season, it's easily Dahlin (favorite for the Norris vs EK) and peak Foppa what the hell?

Poll was started less than 10 games into the season. Makar’s Smythe was still fresher in everyone’s minds and Dahlin had fewer games playing at this level yet.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad