MacKinnon vs Matthews

[All Mod Cons]

As I said in the Marner vs Rantanen thread I find it funny how it's always come down to goals when it's Mackinnon vs Matthews but when it's Rantanen vs Marner they say that playmaking and points that matter most. Talk about cherry picking stats

Yeah, I hate that. It's like when non Leafs fans vote for someone over Matthews/Marner because of playoff stats, and then vote Eichel over Matthews because playoff stats don't matter. There's not a lot of consistency in these polls.

 

[Garthinater]

I mean do they? It's hard to overrate a guy who plays a solid two way game, and over his last 2 seasons is pacing for over 100 points and 60 goals per 82 games. It's a lot more in-line with reality than the guys who voted him in as THE single most overrated player in hockey today before the season started on this site.

It should be hard yet lots of leaf fans still manage to over rate him.

Before this season, there were leaf fans who already thought early matthews > early malkin and early ovy.

Now some leaf fans are trying to make this season out to be equal or better than ovy's peak season.

Somehow certain leaf fans always find ways to pump matthews tires far to much.

 

[Garthinater]

Playoff ppg

Mack 1.35 = 110 points / 82 games

Matthews 0.74 = 61 points / 82 games

Add on mack outproducing matthews during the regular season and the massive difference in salary, I dont see how anyone can choose matthews.

 

[CatchyTune]

Playoff ppg

Mack 1.35 = 110 points / 82 games

Matthews 0.74 = 61 points / 82 games

Add on mack outproducing matthews during the regular season and the massive difference in salary, I dont see how anyone can choose matthews.

No doubt Mackinnon has been better in the playoffs.

But Mackinnon isnt really even outproducing Matthews this regular season. He has 1 more point. And Matthews has 20 more goals.

I dont think Matthews has passed Mackinnon yet, but he could very well with a similar showing next year.

 

[authentic]

Yeah, I hate that. It's like when non Leafs fans vote for someone over Matthews/Marner because of playoff stats, and then vote Eichel over Matthews because playoff stats don't matter. There's not a lot of consistency in these polls.

He lost to rookie Pettersson in a poll and this season while not quite as bad lost to Barkov, tells you all you need to know lol

 

[Garthinater]

No doubt Mackinnon has been better in the playoffs.

But Mackinnon isnt really even outproducing Matthews this regular season. He has 1 more point. And Matthews has 20 more goals.

I dont think Matthews has passed Mackinnon yet, but he could very well with a similar showing next year.

Over the last 3 years mack has gotten roughly 10 more points / 82 games during the regular season. For me thats a big enough gap when you combine playoffs as well.

Also, marner > rants so advantage matthews lol

 

[Foppberg]

No doubt Mackinnon has been better in the playoffs.

But Mackinnon isnt really even outproducing Matthews this regular season. He has 1 more point. And Matthews has 20 more goals.

I dont think Matthews has passed Mackinnon yet, but he could very well with a similar showing next year.

Nah, sorry buddy. Matthews is great but MacKinnon has another level that Matthews hasn't shown to possess, yet.

 

[CatchyTune]

Over the last 3 years mack has gotten roughly 10 more points / 82 games during the regular season. For me thats a big enough gap when you combine playoffs as well.

Also, marner > rants so advantage matthews lol

I actually think Rantanen is better. I also still said Mackinnon is better, just Matthews is getting closer. The gap isnt as big as years prior. And the goal scoring is significantly different.

Nah, sorry buddy. Matthews is great but MacKinnon has another level that Matthews hasn't shown to possess, yet.

I never said Matthews is better. Just that Mackinnon went from being much better, to slightly better. I dont think its a massive gap. Matthews has improved.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Umm...Matthews didn't play college hockey bud. But go ahead try another angle.

Matthews never played college hockey. He was too busy destroying a pro men's league in Europe and finishing second in the Rocket race the next season as an NHL rookie....

And he was never seen in this thread again.

 

[CatchyTune]

And he was never seen in this thread again.

He wasnt legitimately comparing Caufield to Matthews. Just trying to exploit some logic used in a passive aggressive backhanded way. Comparing NHL seasons from players at the same age is completely reasonable.

 

[Xspyrit]

Second best player in the league: Caufield has entered the discussion.

Damn, there's at the very least 8 players in Ottawa I wouldn't trade 1 for 1 for Caufield. Imagine how rich we are!

 

[Joe n]

This type of argument always assumes that players develop/progress in a linear fashion. It doesn't account for the fact that some players reach their "prime" faster than others do.

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins first 5 seasons = 222 points
Henrik Sedin first 5 seasons = 221 points

So I guess RNH should be expected to win a scoring title and score 112 points by age 29 because he actually produced more than Sedin their first 5 seasons in the league?

Brad Marchand first 5 seasons = 242 points
Vladimir Tarasenko first 5 seasons = 284 points

Any season now Tarasenko's going to be pacing for 100 points over multiple seasons like Marchand because he was ahead of Marchand after their first 5 seasons in the league?

Note: This isn't to say it's impossible that Matthews will surpass MacKinnon. It's to point out that making that assumption due to how each performed at the start of their careers is incredibly faulty.

this argument always comes up for Matthews, like he won't improve. It took him 5 years to basically equal what MacKinnon is doing in his 8th year.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Over the last 3 years mack has gotten roughly 10 more points / 82 games during the regular season. For me thats a big enough gap when you combine playoffs as well.

Also, marner > rants so advantage matthews lol

I wasn't aware Matthews played with Marner the past 3 years?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

this argument always comes up for Matthews, like he won't improve. It took him 5 years to basically equal what MacKinnon is doing in his 8th year.

Yup. Mackinnon probably gets a slight nod of advantage today but given their early careers and such, you have to salivate at where Matthews could be (let alone where he is).

 

[PAZ]

IMO, the difference between Matthews and Mackinnon in the regular season is a small enough gap it can be argued either way. However, they're both playing on cup contenders now, the regular season doesn't really matter. Moving forward, it would be impressive if Matthews hit 60 goals or Mack hit 110 points, but it wouldn't be a gamechanger for how I view them. Mack has shown he elevates his game in the playoffs and flat out dominates at times, to the point that there were talks that people would take Mack over McDavid (who is obviously better). Matthews needs to show he can elevate his game in the playoffs and be a gamebreaker.

 

[newfy]

I think what Avs fans disagree mostly is that is the first season where Matthews is very close to Mack in term of points where Mack has been doing what he has for three straight years. I agree that goalscoring is harder than assist what I don't agree is Matthews already being ranked #2 after one very good anomaly season where both players are very close. The biggest difference is the playoffs Mack has such a tremendous playoffs resume which Matthews needs to prove IMO. Even a guy like Drai is still getting underrated in these boards being in the shadow of Mcdavid and IMO should be considered on par with Mack and Matthews if not above.

This is the right answer pretty clearly to me on every point. Matthews could be having the second best season for a center this year but its a weird season where youre only playing in your own division. A short season with weird circumstances like this where theyre close in points is not enoungh to say Matthews is better. Mackinnon has done it for longer and has a substantial advantage come playoff time.

Matthews is going to have to do it for more than one weird season to pass Mackinnon. Draisatl is definitely part of the convo as well though

 

[Mats13]

You mean at the same age, Caufield was tearing apart Matthews college stats.

Lol caufield is literally known for scoring goals. That’s his thing.

Matthews does it wayyyyyyyyy better. Matthews is also better at everything else.

You should definitely leave this thread tho because go check out the USNDP stats. Matthews is in another tier. He also didn’t play college lmao.

 

[Mats13]

Second best player in the league: Caufield has entered the discussion.

3 goals in 7 games

1 in regulation

ELITE

He puts McDavid to shame

 

[Contenderorpretender]

You mean at the same age, Caufield was tearing apart Matthews college stats.

Ummm what? I cant find Matthews college stats.....

Love how caufield has to make an appearance. You should start a caufield vs Matthews poll.

 

[M2Beezy]

Who will be the better player over the next 3 years?

Im not sure

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Yeah, I hate that. It's like when non Leafs fans vote for someone over Matthews/Marner because of playoff stats, and then vote Eichel over Matthews because playoff stats don't matter. There's not a lot of consistency in these polls.

Oh I'd argue the polls section is very consistent. Just not necessarily the way you are thinking.

 

[Apotheosis]

IMO, the difference between Matthews and Mackinnon in the regular season is a small enough gap it can be argued either way. However, they're both playing on cup contenders now, the regular season doesn't really matter. Moving forward, it would be impressive if Matthews hit 60 goals or Mack hit 110 points, but it wouldn't be a gamechanger for how I view them. Mack has shown he elevates his game in the playoffs and flat out dominates at times, to the point that there were talks that people would take Mack over McDavid (who is obviously better). Matthews needs to show he can elevate his game in the playoffs and be a gamebreaker.

This is my opinion as well.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

PP stand and shoot I want Matthews. Rest of the game give me Mac.

It's ironic that this dumb, oversimplicist statement is actually wrong too.

Matthews had more than double the goals at Even Strength and more EV Goals than MacKinnon had assists at Even Strength, this season.

MacKinnon actually has more PPG than Matthews over the past few years, so he's the guy you probably want on the PP to stand and shoot.

-----

I agree with the person who said it's close enough in the regular season to be argued either way. Matthews, who hasn't been bad or a ghost in the playoffs, needs to elevate it to that next level though for him to have a case over mackinnon.

 

[smokes lets go]

IMO, the difference between Matthews and Mackinnon in the regular season is a small enough gap it can be argued either way. However, they're both playing on cup contenders now, the regular season doesn't really matter. Moving forward, it would be impressive if Matthews hit 60 goals or Mack hit 110 points, but it wouldn't be a gamechanger for how I view them. Mack has shown he elevates his game in the playoffs and flat out dominates at times, to the point that there were talks that people would take Mack over McDavid (who is obviously better). Matthews needs to show he can elevate his game in the playoffs and be a gamebreaker.

I agree with this take. If we are talking about ascerting their legacy, these playoffs are absolutely huge for both Mcdavid and Matthews. Moreso than Mackinnon based on his track record imo.

 

[Garthinater]

I wasn't aware Matthews played with Marner the past 3 years?

Neither was I. Who told you he was?