Mackinnon vs Draisaitl

[authentic]

This thread is the perfect example of 2 extremes. Anyone saying Drai would be a bum without McDavid or he's a PP merchant or whatever are obviously clueless. Drai is an undisputed top 5 player in the world, at worst. But anyone who thinks he's in or can be in the same tier as Crosby/OV is equally clueless. Crosby won rosses, harts, smythes, etc with random no name line mates despite always being the main focus of the opposition. OV has a 65 goal season when no one on his team even hit 70pts (43pt gap over 2nd). He has a 52 goal/106pt season when 2nd on the team had 57pts (49pt gap). Multiple other seasons leading his team by 20+pts all while throwing out ~200 hits and being the main focus of the opposition. Until Drai does things like that without McDavid, he'll never be in that tier. And no, 7 games in 19/20 don't prove anything. OV never had the luxury of a generational player doing the heavy lifting for him. Crosby had Malkin but they were on different lines and Crosby got the tough matchups. Drai is either on McDavid's wing or getting cupcake matchups behind him and obviously spends 100% of the PP with McDavid. Great player, but nowhere close to Crosby/OV level.

2 points per game two playoffs in a row and 13 goals already tells me he's atleast close

 

[McVespa99]

MacKinnon is 6th all-time in P/PG in the playoffs (32 more GP than Draisaitl)

He also led the league in ESP this season which is crazy with the point gap between him and McDavid.

So you are saying Mack is not very good on the PP...

 

[blundluntman]

Mackinnon had the same ppg this regular season, lead the league in EVP in 10 fewer games and is a proven playoff beast. It's ridiculous to claim this is easily Draisaitl. I take Mackinnon but it could easily go either way.

 

[ricky0034]

Mackinnon had the same ppg this regular season, lead the league in EVP in 10 fewer games and is a proven playoff beast. It's ridiculous to claim this is easily Draisaitl. I take Mackinnon but it could easily go either way.

that's always the story isn't it? it's always pace with MacKinnon

he hasn't had as many actual points as Draisaitl even once since Draisaitl broke out half a decade ago, and usually it's not particularly close either

 

[Regal]

that's always the story isn't it? it's always pace with MacKinnon

he hasn't had as many actual points as Draisaitl even once since Draisaitl broke out half a decade ago, and usually it's not particularly close either

Eh, pace can be problematic but over a large enough sample size it’s pretty accurate and the difference between them isn’t huge over the past 5 years (8 points per 82). Being healthier is a plus for sure, but it’s not the same as being better.

 

[McVespa99]

Eh, pace can be problematic but over a large enough sample size it’s pretty accurate and the difference between them isn’t huge over the past 5 years (8 points per 82). Being healthier is a plus for sure, but it’s not the same as being better.

Being healthier and better is even more impressive

 

[blundluntman]

that's always the story isn't it? it's always pace with MacKinnon

he hasn't had as many actual points as Draisaitl even once since Draisaitl broke out half a decade ago, and usually it's not particularly close either

I'm sure it has nothing to do with Draisaitl sharing PP minutes (and playing on the same line in the past) with McDavid but okay. Draisaitl is great on his own of course but his numbers definitely spike playing with McDavid just like Hyman and RNH. PPG doesn't mean much when you're talking about 20 games but once you're around 60-70 it's pretty accurate. We're talking about a game by game basis here, not point totals on their own. Mackinnon is explosive, quick, a great stickhandler, a great playmaker and has a great shot. Draisaitl is a very talented playmaker and goalscorer with high hockey IQ/positioning. Both have their strengths and yield similar results, hence, it's a very close comparison.

 

[McVespa99]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with Draisaitl sharing PP minutes (and playing on the same line in the past) with McDavid but okay. Draisaitl is great on his own of course but his numbers definitely spike playing with McDavid just like Hyman and RNH. PPG doesn't mean much when you're talking about 20 games but once you're around 60-70 it's pretty accurate. We're talking about a game by game basis here, not point totals on their own. Mackinnon is explosive, quick, a great stickhandler, a great playmaker and has a great shot. Draisaitl is a very talented playmaker and goalscorer with high hockey IQ/positioning. Both have their strengths and yield similar results, hence, it's a very close comparison.

Yah Mack only gets to play with Rants and Makar. Couple of stiffs

 

[blundluntman]

Yah Mack only gets to play with Rants and Makar. Couple of stiffs

yeah they're definitely better than mcdavid. my bad

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I still take Draisatl by a mile.

But MacGinnon and his scowly face and hating losing do set him apart from the two leafs who tend to match him in scoring.

MacGinnon and his anger issues can't propel him above a clearly superior player like Draisatl. But at least MacGinnon won't go down without a fight. Unlike the Leafs collection of 10 million dollar forwards.

Why are you quoting yourself (to again express how much you hate MacKinnon)?

 

[McFlash97]

If Mackinnon takes that chop from Pietroangelo, he would be out for 6 months.

Drai easily.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

If Edmonton wins the cup and drasaitl wins the conn smythe, you can /thread

I mean, MacKinnon didn't win the Conn Smythe...

 

[howboutahug]

So you are saying Mack is not very good on the PP...

Spin it anyway that makes you feel better

 

[Mobiandi]

Draisaitl is closer to Roope Hintz than MacKinnon

 

[Fourier]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with Draisaitl sharing PP minutes (and playing on the same line in the past) with McDavid but okay. Draisaitl is great on his own of course but his numbers definitely spike playing with McDavid just like Hyman and RNH. PPG doesn't mean much when you're talking about 20 games but once you're around 60-70 it's pretty accurate. We're talking about a game by game basis here, not point totals on their own. Mackinnon is explosive, quick, a great stickhandler, a great playmaker and has a great shot. Draisaitl is a very talented playmaker and goalscorer with high hockey IQ/positioning. Both have their strengths and yield similar results, hence, it's a very close comparison.

It should be time to put this narrative to bed. Draisaitl is not a product of McDavid. He is legitimately one of the most talented players of his generation. Every great player benefits from his team mates. But how they impact point production is complicated. For example at ES RNH's individual scoring rate drops substantially playing with McDavid.

MacKinnon barely ups Rantanen's scoring rate 5 vs 5. Over the last three years Rantanen has scored at a rate of 2.34 pts/60 5 vs 5 without MacKinnon and 2.47 pts/60 with Mackinnon. Over a full season that amounts to about a 2 point difference. So maybe its possible that great players don't always inflate other great players numbers automatically. Even more interesting is that MacKinnon's numbers go down when he is playing with Rantanen. Over the last three years he has scored at a 2.97pts/60 rate 5 vs 5 with Rantanen and 3.19pts/60 away from him. Why might that be? Could it be that there is only one puck? And two players who are use to being the go to guy have to share when they are playing together.


How players produce with one another depends on more than just how good they are but also on what roles players have and how well the interact. One of Draisaitl's great strengths is his ability to modify his game depending on who he plays with. Away from McDavid he becomes the alpha dog and more of a playmaker. With McDavid he morphed his game to be more of a complementary player and more of a trigger man. Away from McDavid Draisaitl slows down the play. With McDavid is is much more about transition and scoring off the rush. Not every player can make these adjustments and no one else so far has come close to doing it as well when playing with McDavid. 5 vs 5 away from Draisaitl over the last 3 years McDavid has put up 2.7 pts/60.He's had a lot of different wingers in that time including many who were really no where near top 6 players. With Leon that number jumps to 3.37pts/60. So Leon clearly helps McDavid a lot since he can both get McDavid teh puck and finish..

 

[blundluntman]

It should be time to put this narrative to bed. Draisaitl is not a product of McDavid. He is legitimately one of the most talented players of his generation. Every great player benefits from his team mates. But how they impact point production is complicated. For example at ES RNH's individual scoring rate drops substantially playing with McDavid.

MacKinnon barely ups Rantanen's scoring rate 5 vs 5. Over the last three years Rantanen has scored at a rate of 2.34 pts/60 5 vs 5 without MacKinnon and 2.47 pts/60 with Mackinnon. Over a full season that amounts to about a 2 point difference. So maybe its possible that great players don't always inflate other great players numbers automatically. Even more interesting is that MacKinnon's numbers go down when he is playing with Rantanen. Over the last three years he has scored at a 2.97pts/60 rate 5 vs 5 with Rantanen and 3.19pts/60 away from him. Why might that be? Could it be that there is only one puck? And two players who are use to being the go to guy have to share when they are playing together.


How players produce with one another depends on more than just how good they are but also on what roles players have and how well the interact. One of Draisaitl's great strengths is his ability to modify his game depending on who he plays with. Away from McDavid he becomes the alpha dog and more of a playmaker. With McDavid he morphed his game to be more of a complementary player and more of a trigger man. Away from McDavid Draisaitl slows down the play. With McDavid is is much more about transition and scoring off the rush. Not every player can make these adjustments and no one else so far has come close to doing it as well when playing with McDavid. 5 vs 5 away from Draisaitl over the last 3 years McDavid has put up 2.7 pts/60.He's had a lot of different wingers in that time including many who were really no where near top 6 players. With Leon that number jumps to 3.37pts/60. So Leon clearly helps McDavid a lot since he can both get McDavid teh puck and finish..

I literally never said that. My point was that they're very similar numbers wise and it's not like Draisaitl blows him out the water statistically when you consider he plays with the best player in the world. He'd still be a 110+ point player without him but to act like McDavid doesn't help him collect another 10 or so points is simply dishonest. I brought that up to say that he and Mackinnon are very similar production wise and this talk of it not being close is ridiculous. You won't ever hear me say he's a PP merchant or anything like that. It's simply a fact that when you take McDavid out of the equation, the two players are basically the same production wise. That's my point.

 

[Fourier]

I literally never said that. My point was that they're very similar numbers wise and it's not like Draisaitl blows him out the water statistically when you consider he plays with the best player in the world. He'd still be a 110+ point player without him but to act like McDavid doesn't help him collect another 10 or so points is simply dishonest. I brought that up to say that he and Mackinnon are very similar production wise and this talk of it not being close is ridiculous. You won't ever hear me say he's a PP merchant or anything like that. It's simply a fact that when you take McDavid out of the equation, the two players are basically the same production wise. That's my point.

I accept your point that you did not say that. It is however the common narrative. Anyone saying that Draisaitl blows MacKinnon out of the water or vice versa is simply wrong. I actually agree that they are comparable players, though very different in their approach. I still say though that Draisaitl gets far less credit for adapting his game to play with McDavid than he should. Not many could have made that transition nearly as successfully. For a pass first playmaker to turn himself into one of the leagues most deadly snipers is no small feat.

 

[Coffey]

I mean, MacKinnon didn't win the Conn Smythe...

Ya for such an incredible player, his trophy cabinet is pretty bare.
He was lucky enough to be part of the Avs team last year.

 

[centipede2233]

I mean, MacKinnon didn't win the Conn Smythe...

So far, drasaitl has brown 100 pts 4 times, 50 goals 3 times
,ackinnon broke 100 pts once and no 50 goal season, drasaitl has a better ppg playoff as well. Drasaitl has shown better durability, almost ovechkinesque

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Draisaitl is closer to Roope Hintz than MacKinnon

Yes because it's Draisatl >>>>> Hintz > MacGinnon.

So Hintz is closer.

 

[blundluntman]

I accept your point that you did not say that. It is however the common narrative. Anyone saying that Draisaitl blows MacKinnon out of the water or vice versa is simply wrong. I actually agree that they are comparable players, though very different in their approach. I still say though that Draisaitl gets far less credit for adapting his game to play with McDavid than he should. Not many could have made that transition nearly as successfully. For a pass first playmaker to turn himself into one of the leagues most deadly snipers is no small feat.

yeah that’s fair. I used to think it was mostly mcdavid but having watched him play more these past few seasons I’ve noticed a lot more how talented he is. He could definitely be a superstar on whatever team had him. I think he’s become pretty fairly rated especially since the playoffs started

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Clearly there is no statistical argument for MacKinnon over Draisaitl. There's no real debate to be had on that one at this point.

However, I find it absolutely not shocking at all that a fanbase like the Oilers have on here would be have such a short memory as to come in here and completely disrespect MacKinnon as a player after he played a very central role in WHOOPING YOUR TEAMS ASS LAST YEAR. Apparently a lot of you have blocked out those memories subconsciously - trauma/embarrassment/humiliation etc.

 

[McVespa99]

Spin it anyway that makes you feel better

That was a joke. Try to keep up

yeah they're definitely better than mcdavid. my bad

There are degrees. Mack gets to play with superstars too

 

[McVespa99]

Draisaitl is closer to Roope Hintz than MacKinnon

So you are saying Hintz is better than Mack?
Drai
Hintz
Mack

 

[blundluntman]

That was a joke. Try to keep up


There are degrees. Mack gets to play with superstars too

True which is why I say they're about equal. It's definitely close contrary to what people in this thread are saying