M-A Fleury HOF?

[amnesiac]

The pens don't win the 09 cup without Fluery, nor the 2017 cup that's a fact, and Vrgas Wouldn't be here without Fluery that is also a fact.

No thats not a fact actually. He probably even COST THE PENS more Cups.

908 SV% in 2009... probably half the goalies int he league wouldve done the same or BETTER. He wasnt even considered for the Smythe, and then he was a playoff choker the next 4 seasons. FACT. Are you so quick to forget?

1 great playoff year (no Cup yet!!) doesnt get you int he HOF, sorry. See Cam Ward, JS Giguere.....

Oh, and never came close to a Vezina either. Never even a finalist if Im not mistaken!

Classic HF post, just looking at the present. You guys drive me nuts..... Do you think Marchessault is a top 10 player int he game now too?

 

[justafan22]

Personally I don' think he's a hall of famer, but I voted yes, because the hall will let him in. If he wins a cup in an expansion team's 1st season, by being the teams most important player, won't be lost on voters. He's similar to Eli Manning in that they aren't hall of fame players in terms of their resume, but during the playoffs (at least for fleury in 2018 so far) they were the best player in the league during that small run. A conn smythe (if vegas wins the cup, he's almost a lock) + cup will be enough. I don't agree with it, just saying what I personally think will happen.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's going to be really hard to argue against him if he finishes top-3 in all time wins (which is very realistic if he stays healthy) and has 3+ cup wins. It doesn't matter if his individual success isn't that impressive, his team success is one of the best all time from goalies. You can't justify not including him just because he has never won a Vezina or 2.

 

[Fataldogg]

He will be there.

Of active goaltenders likely to get in... Luongo, Lundqvist, Fleury and Price could have a strong case.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Yes on wins and cups.

 

[Hockeyholic]

If ( When) he wins a cup this season...the dude is first ballot. Unlike Luongo, this guy steps up in big games.

 

[that is unfortunate]

If ( When) he wins a cup this season...the dude is first ballot. Unlike Luongo, this guy steps up in big games.

Is this a joke? This is his first good playoff run ever, he's been either absolutely brutal or average in the years prior.

 

[amnesiac]

If ( When) he wins a cup this season...the dude is first ballot. Unlike Luongo, this guy steps up in big games.

Were you in a coma from 2010-2013?

I bet youre one of those who think Luongo was to blame for losing the 2011 finals to Boston

 

[Hockeyholic]

Is this a joke? This is his first good playoff run ever, he's been either absolutely brutal or average in the years prior.

2009, 2017, and this season say hello.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Were you in a coma from 2010-2013?

I bet youre one of those who think Luongo was to blame for losing the 2011 finals to Boston

Luongo deserves some blame for the 2011 finals. Did you see the games in Boston?

 

[that is unfortunate]

2009, 2017, and this season say hello.

2009 and 2017? 2017 was ok but he got outperformed by Murray, his 2009 run was so average you could replace him with an average backup and get the same stats.

He's an average starter that was never close to being the best goalie in the league at any point in his career while being considered a massive playoff choker until the past couple years. I have no doubt he gets into the HOF based on the leagues obsession with team records/awards.

 

[amnesiac]

Luongo deserves some blame for the 2011 finals. Did you see the games in Boston?

Nucks scored 3 goals in 3 games in Boston
7 goals in the whole series
2 of 7 games were won 1-0 by Vancouver

Roy in his prime couldnt have won it for the Canucks.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Nucks scored 3 goals in 3 games in Boston
7 goals in the whole series
2 of 7 games were won 1-0 by Vancouver

Okay...but Luongo ensured they had zero chance of winning in Boston. None. You can't possibly be defending his performance are you?

 

[amnesiac]

Okay...but Luongo ensured they had zero chance of winning in Boston. None. You can't possibly be defending his performance are you?

of course not the 8-1 game, but they wouldve lost it anyway....

I mean he stole the 3 games they won!.... 1-0, 3-2 OT, 1-0

Offense couldnt win one more game.... They scored 3 goals in their 4 losses! Think about that.

Seriously, Im betting that it was the least amount of goals scored by one team in a SCF (that went 7 games) in history. Hell even scoring 7 goals in 4 games would be pathetic.

 

[Hockeyholic]

of course not the 8-1 game.... but he stole 3 games! 1-0, 3-2 OT, 1-0

Offense couldnt win one more game.... again, they scored 3 goals in those 4 other games.

Nobody will look back and say: " Hey Luongo was great in games 1, 2, and 5". It's a moot point. He was atrocious in the games they lost. Abysmal. Those are the facts. They can't be disputed. The Bergeron goal in game 7 set the tone. That can't go in.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

If either of you are having trouble figuring out the topic of the thread, it's in the subject line.

Get back on topic.

 

[Thenameless]

I was a pretty solid "no" a couple of years ago on Fleury. He finally did have a good playoffs last year, and he is having a really good one this year - but it's not finished yet. To win the Cup this year, he would have to have gone through two very experienced playoff teams in LA and San Jose. Then beat what is a very strong Winnipeg team (probably the strongest team he'd face in these playoffs). And in the Cup, he'd have to beat a team with snipers like Stamkos/Kucherov or Ovechkin. If Vegas can win the Cup this year, and Fleury continues this level of play, he starts to make a decent case for himself. He has been atrocious in some regular seasons and in some past playoffs, but that's why we look at a career body of work.

 

[Regal]

Is this a joke? This is his first good playoff run ever, he's been either absolutely brutal or average in the years prior.

I'd say he was quite good in the loss in '08. A lot better than the win the following year

 

[Paul4587]

If he wins another cup yes. If not no.

 

[dragonballgtz]

It's going to be really hard to argue against him if he finishes top-3 in all time wins (which is very realistic if he stays healthy) and has 3+ cup wins. It doesn't matter if his individual success isn't that impressive, his team success is one of the best all time from goalies. You can't justify not including him just because he has never won a Vezina or 2.

Think the argument against that will be he played in an era with no ties, you either win or lose the game. He has 3 more regular season wins than Ozzie at this point, playing in 7 less games... but Ozzie had 66 ties in his career.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

It feels like Fleury's reputation is like the Toews of goalies among the media. There's no way they don't put him in the HOF if he wins the Cup + Smythe this year.

Once again, the HOF is not as exclusive as people think it is. It's definitely more exclusive when it comes to inducting goalies, but Fleury will be one of the first choices of this generation.

 

[Bleedred]

Fleury is borderline HOF as we speak. I'm talking as of this very second. About a year ago it seemed Fleury was probably a long shot.

Classic HF post, just looking at the present. You guys drive me nuts..... Do you think Marchessault is a top 10 player int he game now too?

I agree with you that too many people just look at the present and only account for what happened the last year, maybe two years. That's why the ''Top 10 goalies in the league'' list changes every week among posters around here. That's why we see overrated dime a dozen goaltenders like Martin Jones end up on those lists, depending on the year and week, despite the fact that there's at least 25-26 teams in the NHL with a goalie that's either better than or just as good as Martin Jones.

Marchessault is a much different case than Fleury though. As I've already pointed out earlier in another thread. Fleury is a .922% goaltender over his last 242 games, playoffs and regular season combined. That's one of the very best in the league over that time and the last 4 years. Fleury has been a better netminder in his 30's than he was in his 20's.

The Giguere and Ward comparisons aren't really fair. Giguere fell off once he hit his 30's. He was nothing better than an annually fluctuating/good backup goalie from about age 31 until the rest of his career. If Giguere's career as a starting goaltender didn't end so early, maybe we're talking about an HOF goalie.

Ward was never as good as Fleury. Ward's entire career is probably not even on par with Fleury's 2003-2014. Ward has been a pretty mediocre goaltender for almost all of his career, with a few pretty good seasons sprinkled in between years of below NHL average netminding. Ward was never close to HOF caliber, outside of his Conn Smythe and Ward is probably the weakest Conn Smythe winner of the last 30 years. And by weakest, I don't mean that he didn't deserve it in the year he won it, just that when you look at Conn Smythe winners from the 90's onward, there's a lot of HOF caliber names on that list and Cam Ward is probably the one with the most underwhelming career.

 

[ted2019]

If Fleury gets to 500 wins, then he will basically be automatic to get in sometime down the road. He wouldn't be a 1st ballot guy, but he would get in after several years. The lack of Vezina and Hart votes do hurt him.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

imo no, absolutely not. and i'm surprised that so many people are voting yes.

on the flip side, i'm good about being wrong about things, so maybe i shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Bleedred]

If Fleury gets to 500 wins, then he will basically be automatic to get in sometime down the road. He wouldn't be a 1st ballot guy, but he would get in after several years. The lack of Vezina and Hart votes do hurt him.

That's where I'm at. Although a Conn Smythe and cup win this year probably ups that tremendously.

imo no, absolutely not. and i'm surprised that so many people are voting yes.

on the flip side, i'm good about being wrong about things, so maybe i shouldn't be surprised.

I actually thought a year ago that him getting in was a silly premise. I think what he's done with an expansion team, especially in this playoffs and his play over the last 4 years has really catapulted him though.