LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) VII

[bobermay]

That is supposed to be bad? The guy is U18 eligible you guys are trying to much

I never said it was bad... on the contrary, I stated:

Again, even against quality competition, Laine produced...

 

[TheBigThree]

Matthews is 8 month older.

You need to realize that he's a 6'4 player who just turned 18. He still has so much untapped potential because of that. It takes time to fill out a bigger frame, and it takes time to get used to your body as you keep growing up.

Maybe he realizes it, maybe not. Not saying Matthews doesn't have a ton of untapped potential as well, but Laine just is less of a finished product. While being less of a finished product he destroyed this tournament and was its leader goal scorer.

People say he produced against bad teams... why didn't Matthews produce as much against those bad teams if he is so much better than Laine ? All players in the tournament faced the same teams he faced.

I bet that if Toronto picks Laine, this downplaying of Laine's achievements will stop really fast.

8 months is nothing, they both have untapped potential. I don't know where you are getting this but everything you said doesn't make sense unless you know the future. We'll only know who was better after a couple years of them in the league. Right now matthews is better considering he's solid all around. While laine needs a lot of work as he was completely a non factor vs anyone on team canada, actually a defensive liability most of the game.

 

[Dwins172]

Luckily Laine goes to a potential winning team. We all know the face McDavid made when he was sentenced to go to a rebuiliding canadian team that is the worst in the league.
Laine hates losing and he is gonna love Winnipeg next season and alot more as few years go by.

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

I never said it was bad... on the contrary, I stated:

ok my bad

 

[QnebO]

You're not going to like what happens next if I have to tell you knock if off. Hint: it's a forum ban. Discuss Laine and Matthews in their respective threads. Keep fanbase, bias, salt, thread commentary comments to yourself and don't post in either thread to simply stir the pot. This is pretty basic stuff.

Appropriate thing to do. We need to have some respect for both top prospects (matthews, Laine) when we talk and have some quality here. It has been like shared GDT salting betwen rivalvries lately. Those two kids play great hockey and I bet they don't want to generate **** storm and tons of haters.

Laine had great year, I hope he goes to Winnipeg. Leafs are so focused n getting Matthews, and knowing toronto media ect, it'll be just way easier to go to that Winnipeg team.

 

[chauron]

Matthews is 8 month older.

Exactly, few days earlier and he wouldnt be in this draft. Thus Matthews actually belongs to the mix with McDavid, Eichel and those draftees and definitely would not be BPA.

Give Laine 8 months and then compare, wow!

 

[strat1]

Laine can't produce anything if his team is that passive. Finns mostly played in their own end and they couldn't break canadas pressure.

 

[ijuka]

Their line has been very ineffective, which is a funny thing to say as they all have so many points, I guess. Still, the zone entries are weak. Extremely weak. And it's not only vs Canada. This is mostly due to the nonexistent offensive game plan, but this still is the center's responsibility. Lajunen was actually taking care of the zone entries much better than Barkov was. Lajunen is nowhere near as good a player. Certainly, this is vs Denmark but I believe it's something to think about. Of course, Laine was also playing on his wrong wing.

It's hard to understand how he's getting so few proper passes throughout the tournament. This game, they of course didn't even get that far and the zone entries just were extremely weak. Now, Barkov isn't a weak player and Jokinen is neither, so either it's because these players can't play well together, or it's due to the extremely weak offensive playbook of Kari Jalonen. But due to the Koivu line at least doing decently, it's something else. There has to be a real reason for a complete lack of good zone entries in recent games for the line.

 

[Garthinater]

Oh, come on. People are like 99% sure that Leafs don't draft him. There is even a thread about it in the main board.

Edit: So I don't get banned or anything I'm changing my post. All the best to Laine, hopefully he hits his ceiling cause the more skill in the nhl the better.

 

[Kelly]

Luckily Laine goes to a potential winning team. We all know the face McDavid made when he was sentenced to go to a rebuiliding canadian team that is the worst in the league.
Laine hates losing and he is gonna love Winnipeg next season and alot more as few years go by.

Winnipeg is a winning team? News to me.

Anyway, looks like Laine has trouble posting points in the game that matters the most, though it is Canada so it really doesn't surprise me he went pointless against such a great team. Nevertheless Winnipeg/Columbus are going to be selecting a great player.

 

[NarcoPolo]

Kid didn't have his best game today but had a fantastic tournament, not every day an 18 year old is named MVP in a men's tournament featuring stars in the NHL. As much as I've "ragged" on Laine he's gonna be a star.

Winnipeg is in a good spot

 

[TheDoldrums]

Exactly, few days earlier and he wouldnt be in this draft. Thus Matthews actually belongs to the mix with McDavid, Eichel and those draftees and definitely would not be BPA.

Give Laine 8 months and then compare, wow!

So he belongs in the mix with Eichel, who's 11 months older than Matthews?

 

[93LEAFS]

Exactly, few days earlier and he wouldnt be in this draft. Thus Matthews actually belongs to the mix with McDavid, Eichel and those draftees and definitely would not be BPA.

Give Laine 8 months and then compare, wow!

You do realize Eichel is 11 months older than Matthews, so that is an even bigger disadvantage. And if you go by this you could easily claim Nolan Patrick would go above Laine if he was born a week earlier. Laine's a great prospect but people are overly clinging to the age thing. Studies into how important it is for Euro's is fairly limited, and it seems to be more prevalent in regards to USHL and CHL guys, due to the fact their are age requirements to play in leagues. While Euro's can easily be moved up and down levels as seen fit, which minimizes the actual effect of age.

 

[ijuka]

You do realize Eichel is 11 months older than Matthews, so that is an even bigger disadvantage. And if you go by this you could easily claim Nolan Patrick would go above Laine if he was born a week earlier. Laine's a great prospect but people are overly clinging to the age thing. Studies into how important it is for Euro's is fairly limited, and it seems to be more prevalent in regards to USHL and CHL guys, due to the fact their are age requirements to play in leagues. While Euro's can easily be moved up and down levels as seen fit, which minimizes the actual effect of age.

This, again, isn't it(At least to me). It's that at that age, you can improve a lot in 7 months. Do you know where Laine was 7 months ago?

 

[Prins Filip]

Anyway, looks like Laine has trouble posting points in the game that matters the most, though it is Canada so it really doesn't surprise me he went pointless against such a great team.

You realize he was mr. Clutch in the Liiga playoffs? Have you forgotten his WJC play already?

So two out of three is not enough for you and indicates that Laine has trouble posting points in big games? Okay.

E: meh, misread it to be in plural. But still the argument stands.

 

[93LEAFS]

This, again, isn't it(At least to me). It's that at that age, you can improve a lot in 7 months. Do you know where Laine was 7 months ago?

Yeah, and that is a factor. 7 months ago he was the number 4 prospect. He's now 2. And just becuase he made a massive jump in 7 months, doesn't mean he will make the same jump again in the next 7 months. It is less of a factor in european prospects due to there being less constraints on age, its still a factor, but not as big as it is in NA, where players are limited to leagues by age.

 

[Hagged]

Yeah 8/10 scouts say mathews over Laine so it kinda makes sense. I'm pointing out that as a leaf fan we get to choose, and we want the best player obviously, so why would we purposely choose the wrong player? Don't get me wrong, I have a feeling Laine might end up the more dynamic player so if leaf mgnt choose Laine I won't be upset

The thing is, you maybe should be upset. The main real argument for Laine is the ceiling / development curve. And it's just what it is, untapped potential. Many times it stays untapped. With Matthews, you know better what you get due to him already knowing the NA game.

But I could pick Laine due to the projection I have of him. But it's what it is, one opinion of both players' untapped potential (an opinion shared only by ~20% pro scouts), and cannot say that picking Matthews would be wrong.

Picking Matthews is safe, and it could lead to getting the best player with the best career. However, I project Laine MUCH higher than the average poster here. Probably even higher than the average poster in this thread but that's for another discussion in the summer time.

 

[BB88]

You realize he was mr. Clutch in the Liiga playoffs? Have you forgotten his WJC play already?

So two out of three is not enough for you and indicates that Laine has trouble posting points in big games? Okay.

E: meh, misread it to be in plural. But still the argument stands.

+ He scored the back breaker in the must win game against Denmark and assisted the game winner against Russia just last night.

 

[Halberdier]

Anyway, looks like Laine has trouble posting points in the game that matters the most, though it is Canada so it really doesn't surprise me he went pointless against such a great team. Nevertheless Winnipeg/Columbus are going to be selecting a great player.

Laine has had about 15 really important games this year, and he did score points on most of them. For example against Team Canada in WJC twice, when he was not competing against his peers, but 2-3 years older guys!

Well, he didn't score points against Team Canada today (one of the very few important games he didn't do it so far), but so didn't anyone of his team. And he was trying hard and were really close to finish couple of times in 1st period.

Seriously gassed out, as always on this season when he had two games without rest between. He needs to work out his physics and stamina a lot.

Bad 2nd period today (as for the other Finns too), but otherwise not a bad game, and even a good one when considered the age.

 

[IFK]

Latest RT by Pronman

Also, most goal in WHC.

 

[Ippenator]

You should probably post a link about nationalism. That would make more sense for the laine over rating

He has done well. Got a lot of press. He plays best in time and space. He is somewhat predictable to the point that announcers were calling his shots. He is more of an unknown than matthews. He was in no way the best forward in this tournament. He may be great. He may have the highest ceiling in this draft. It is ridiculous to compare him to ovechkin. There is a very real chance the leafs pick him.

Saying these things makes people lose their minds. I dont get it

Ovechkin is such a bad player really, that I do hope that comparing Laine to him would really stop. I would take in fact most of the NHL players with good offensive skills over Ovechkin. Again and again he proves that I am right about him as a player. I would like to emphasize though that I hold almost zero value to point and goal production during regular season.

So what if you score consistently over 50 goals in a regular season? Player who scores consistently about 20 goals in the regular season can be easily a better player than a consistent over 50 goal scorer in the regular season, especially if the over 50 goal player is so totally onesided, selfish, bad team player and terrible in the biggest games. The huge admiring of Ovechkin in the hockey world shows that a huge amount of hockey fans unfortunately really don't understand that much about what are the really deciding factors for winning something big in hockey. By having a player like Ovechkin in your team you really become a more predictable team. And I believe the chances of winning anything big become in fact smaller than with a more balanced team with great team players and more balanced goal scoring spread.

I hope Laine will continue to make his play more many sided. He has already improved in that this season, and he is definitely better in that than Ovechkin was at the same age. I definitely believe that Laine will become a clearly better player than Ovechkin. On the other hand that wouldn't be that much really, as I can easily name about 100 to 150 better players (in fact probably even 200 when I think more about it) in the NHL and even several ones in KHL, SHL and FEL than Ovechkin is. The only more overrated player I can think of in the world is Kovalchuk. Those two are really something in that department.

What I really hope is that people wouldn't go too much into comparing young prospects to the ready made experienced players, when they are at their prime. If you compare to them, compare to what they were when they were the same age as the young prospect is right now.

I think Laine's ceiling is almost anything. But the floor can also be even that, that he doesn't break through in the NHL and even becomes a KHL player or another European money league player. I highly doubt this, but still with bad luck with injuries and if his development would after all stop completely, even this option could be possible. But as I said, I doubt this very much, and I am over 50% confident that he will become a great NHL star and that many prospects in the future will be compared to him.

Anyway interesting times to follow the development of so many magnificent top prospects.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Winnipeg is a winning team? News to me.

Anyway, looks like Laine has trouble posting points in the game that matters the most, though it is Canada so it really doesn't surprise me he went pointless against such a great team. Nevertheless Winnipeg/Columbus are going to be selecting a great player.

doesn't have trouble being named MVP of this tourney though so he must have done something right.

impressive tourney. loved what I saw with him and cant wait to see him in the NHL with Leafs/jets

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

Ovechkin is such a bad player really, that I do hope that comparing Laine to him would really stop. I would take in fact most of the NHL players with good offensive skills over Ovechkin. Again and again he proves that I am right about him as a player. I would like to emphasize though that I hold almost zero value to point and goal production during regular season.

So what if you score consistently over 50 goals in a regular season? Player who scores consistently about 20 goals in the regular season can be easily a better player than a consistent over 50 goal scorer in the regular season, especially if the over 50 goal player is so totally onesided, selfish, bad team player and terrible in the biggest games. The huge admiring of Ovechkin in the hockey world shows that a huge amount of hockey fans unfortunately really don't understand that much about what are the really deciding factors for winning something big in hockey. By having a player like Ovechkin in your team you really become a more predictable team. And I believe the chances of winning anything big become in fact smaller than with a more balanced team with great team players and more balanced goal scoring spread.

I hope Laine will continue to make his play more many sided. He has already improved in that this season, and he is definitely better in that than Ovechkin was at the same age. I definitely believe that Laine will become a clearly better player than Ovechkin. On the other hand that wouldn't be that much really, as I can easily name about 100 to 150 better players in the NHL, KHL, SHL and FEL than Ovechkin is. The only more overrated player I can think of in the world is Kovalchuk. Those two are really something in that department.

What I really hope is that people wouldn't go too much into comparing young prospects to the ready made experienced players, when they are at their prime. If you compare to them, compare to what they were when they were the same age as the young prospect is right now.

I think Laine's ceiling is almost anything. But the floor can also be even that, that he doesn't break through in the NHL and even becomes a KHL player or another European money league player. I highly doubt this, but still with bad luck with injuries and if his development would after all stop completely, even this option could be possible. But as I said, I doubt this very much, and I am over 50% confident that he will become a great NHL star and that many prospects in the future will be compared to him.

Anyway interesting times to follow the development of so many magnificent top prospects.

I stoped reading when you said you would take a 20 goal scorer over Ovechkin?

 

[KCC]

Really like this player. Imo he's the best in the draft this year. Jets are lucky I think

 

[Beukeboom]

Yeah, and that is a factor. 7 months ago he was the number 4 prospect. He's now 2. And just becuase he made a massive jump in 7 months, doesn't mean he will make the same jump again in the next 7 months. It is less of a factor in european prospects due to there being less constraints on age, its still a factor, but not as big as it is in NA, where players are limited to leagues by age.

This age thing is overrated yes indeed. What if say Laine started playing at the age of 3 and Matthews at the age of 4? Then Laine has played 5 months more rather then less.

What I think is the main thing is what you do during those months. Laine has played in a grown up league and in WJC and now with grown ups in WCH. Had he played in say finnish juniors I'd bet those 7 months wouldn't have meant nearly as much. Just look at Tavares his last year in juniors. That gave nothing based on stats at least.

The next 7 months for Laine will give a lot, not due to being 7 months, but due to NHL training camps, preseason and start of season with world's best players and coaches. So to come back in 7 months and say "oh look, compare him now to M back 7 months" will be a fallacy. The main thing is what you do. Both L and M will develop at a fantastic rate their next year I think due to coming in to NHL with all that comes with it.

Then yet I guess it is also dangerous to expect someone to develop just because they have so in the past. One can assume but not be sure. We clearly see a tendancy for people to believe that players that are less ready atm will develop just because they are diamonds in the rough. That is of course never a guarantee. Maroon has low hockey IQ, it is hardly due to being a diamond in the rough..it is probably the same now as back when he was 18..