LW/C Jonathan Dahlen (2016, 42nd, OTT; traded to VAN; traded to SJS)

[themelkman]

What "higher levels" did he play in last year that you felt he played very poorly in?

I watched him in the tourney will Sweden and thought he was fine. They played a lot worse players over him in the best offensive situations so he didn’t get much chance to showcase his ability

 

[SoundAndFury]

What "higher levels" did he play in last year that you felt he played very poorly in?

I've already mentioned it twice, he got to play 2 games on the EHT team where his biggest highlight was falling after skating into the boards backwards (Finnish rink size supposedly was to blame). Anyway, he got scratched for a 3rd and was not invited to the subsequent NT tournaments. And sure you can say it's a small sample size and whatnot but Swedish coaches aren't blind. If the player has NHL top-6 potential (as some claim/hope) they probably would have invited him at least for another look.

So, you know, you can trust his point totals against inferior competition or the opinion of hockey people who have somewhat of an invested interest in him.

 

[Garl]

I mean going around telling something won't age well is a fairly risk-free strategy unless you can point out any actual arguments to support it. If he was on par with at least the best players in the SHL he would have made the Swedish WC team (or numerous EHT teams before that). And even then very few of the best SHL players have NHL potential.

How is it a risk free strategy? If he doesn't make it, I am wrong you are right.

Now, as for the arguments. You mentioned the main one already, 2 games is a small sample size. When oeple were saying that Mozyakin will not be able to play in NHL it was backed up by large sample size of his underwhelming international play. Here, we are talking about 2 games and you have the reaction that he has "snowball in hell chance to make an impact in NHL" which is a hot take.

Second, him not being selected by the wise and learned hockey scholar Garpenlov who coached Team Sweden to its worst result since the 30s means not much at all. First, his team selection ablities are questionable to say it politely, second, Dahlen had long playoffs and wasn't able to be on the team in the camp and Garpenlov decided that he was not in the pool of players to invite after the EHT.

Now, on the comparsion with SHL players, and making the EHT. He made the EHT. And aside from 6 players(Friberg, Pettersson, Zaar plus the Seklleftea line of Berggren-Wingerli-Froden) nobody played more than 3 games this year. Playing in Allsvenskan he already was put into much harder position, for example, Carl Soderberg who I think we can agree made some impact in NHL was selected only for 4 games of EHT for 4 seasons from 2008 to 2011 and all of them happened in the same year, and of course he did never make WC during this period of time. And this was despite the fact that he has "proven" to be SHL quality in 2007 when he had PPG there. When a player is playing in Allsvenskan, unless he is a Kenny Jonsson level celebrity he already is fighting an uphill battle.

Dahlen didn't play in SHL we can't compare to the "best SHL players" but he had a completely dominating season in Allsvenskan, which is a fairly good league and he dragged Timra to SHL this year, it's not just individual stats, it's also team winning the main prize of the league.

 

[ItWasJustified]

I watched him in the tourney will Sweden and thought he was fine. They played a lot worse players over him in the best offensive situations so he didn’t get much chance to showcase his ability

I would be very surprised if he went directly from Swedish 2nd tier to the NHL. The 2019-20 Swedish 2nd tier scoring champion had a 0.5 PPG in the SHL this year and the NHL is two steps up from the SHL.

 

[themelkman]

I would be very surprised if he went directly from Swedish 2nd tier to the NHL. The 2019-20 Swedish 2nd tier scoring champion had a 0.5 PPG in the SHL this year and the NHL is two steps up from the SHL.

Dahlen wasn’t just the top scorer. He’s pretty much the top scorer ever In that league. He would have broken the record for most points if not for games with the national team. He was and is far beyond the allvenskan.

 

[BondraTime]

I would be very surprised if he went directly from Swedish 2nd tier to the NHL. The 2019-20 Swedish 2nd tier scoring champion had a 0.5 PPG in the SHL this year and the NHL is two steps up from the SHL.

The 1 way contract is because they don't plan on him starting on the NHL?

Jesper Bratt put up 22 points in 46 games for 0.47 PPG in the Allsvenskan and the next year went to the NHL and put up 35 points in 74 games in the NHL for 0.47 PPG.

Different players, just as Dahlen and Johnson are different players

He put up 33 in 57 in the AHL 3 years ago, and has gotten significantly better since then. We see guys doing much worse in the AHL make the jump to the NHL every year.

 

[lawrence]

The 1 way contract is because they don't plan on him starting on the NHL?

the one way contract is to get him to sign with the team. He doesn't want a 2way deal and I don't think he likes the AHl at all. I mentioned this earlier in this thread, that if he's to come back to the NHL I cannot imagine him wanting a 2 way contract. It's the NHL or nothing, so he now will give it all he's got and see where it leads him, San Jose is also taking the risk in giving him a 1 way I think it's a fair deal forth both. Always liked him when he was in our system.

I would be very surprised if he went directly from Swedish 2nd tier to the NHL.

Swedish tier 2 is like the 10 worst teams in the NHL, Swedish Tier 1 is like the 10 best NHL teams. On any given day a team in that league facing a team in tier 1 is like the Buffalo Sabres or anahiem ducks taking on the Boston Bruins or the Avalanche.

 

[Reddawg]

Swedish tier 2 is like the 10 worst teams in the NHL, Swedish Tier 1 is like the 10 best NHL teams. On any given day a team in that league facing a team in tier 1 is like the Buffalo Sabres or anahiem ducks taking on the Boston Bruins or the Avalanche.

Took me a minute to realize you’re not comparing the leagues, just the structures of the leagues.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Every time he played at the higher level he showed nothing good. Be it AHL or international games in the EHT this year. Subsequently, he wasn't even getting invited to the NT after the 1st tournament. He has snowball's chance in hell to have a meaningful impact in the NHL.

well he is older now than last time he was in ahl, he is more mature.

about eht, going from allsvenskan to eht directly is big step. but i have no doubt he would become good eht player if got more chances to get adjust to that level of play.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I've already mentioned it twice, he got to play 2 games on the EHT team where his biggest highlight was falling after skating into the boards backwards (Finnish rink size supposedly was to blame)..

lmao dude. he had a shoot in the post.

And even then very few of the best SHL players have NHL potential.

'

wingerli, ryfors and fröden got signed by nhl team. lets see how they do before talking .

maybe emil pettersson gets signed too. was actually expecting zaar to go to NHL.

jonathan berggren have nhl potential no doubt.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I would be very surprised if he went directly from Swedish 2nd tier to the NHL. The 2019-20 Swedish 2nd tier scoring champion had a 0.5 PPG in the SHL this year and the NHL is two steps up from the SHL.

you do realise that filip forsberg, patrik berglund, jesper bratt and oliver ekman larsson made the jump from allsvenskan to nhl?

 

[SoundAndFury]

wingerli, ryfors and fröden got signed by nhl team. lets see how they do before talking .

maybe emil pettersson gets signed too. was actually expecting zaar to go to NHL.

jonathan berggren have nhl potential no doubt.

You are talking about it like it has no historical background whatsoever so we have to "wait and see before talking" when in actuality there were plenty, plenty of people before them in similar scenarios, and how many of them managed to have a solid impact? Soderberg is a fair shout, Janmark would be another one.. Who else moved to the NHL in their prime age/about to enter it and were actual impact players?

And yes, someone like Berggren absolutely does have NHL potential that's why he has an NHL contract and was successful in the SHL before turning even 21.

you do realise that filip forsberg, patrik berglund, jesper bratt and oliver ekman larsson made the jump from allsvenskan to nhl?

And Raffl, and Pasta. They were, however, either much younger or completely different players, I don't think any of those is comparable to Dahlen.

 

[Eye of Ra]

You are talking about it like it has no historical background whatsoever so we have to "wait and see before talking" when in actuality there were plenty, plenty of people before them in similar scenarios, and how many of them managed to have a solid impact? Soderberg is a fair shout, Janmark would be another one.. Who else moved to the NHL in their prime age/about to enter it and were actual impact players?

And yes, someone like Berggren absolutely does have NHL potential that's why he has an NHL contract and was successful in the SHL before turning even 21.


And Raffl, and Pasta. They were, however, either much younger or completely different players, I don't think any of those is comparable to Dahlen.

Mats Zuccarello
Jörgen Jönsson
Dennis Everberg
Pierre-Édouard Bellemare
Marcus Sörensen
Joakim Nygård
Erik Gustafsson
Johan Franzen
Anders Nilsson
Jonas Gustafsson
Tom Wandell
Magnus Arvedson
Andreas Dackell
Per Svartvadet

No historical background? Ok. All of the guys i listed had an solid impact.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Mats Zuccarello
Jörgen Jönsson
Dennis Everberg
Pierre-Édouard Bellemare
Marcus Sörensen
Joakim Nygård
Erik Gustafsson
Johan Franzen
Anders Nilsson
Jonas Gustafsson
Tom Wandell
Magnus Arvedson
Andreas Dackell
Per Svartvadet

No historical background? Ok. All of the guys i listed had an solid impact.

The fact that you needed to add guys like Everberg or Nygard to the list to make it more numerous kinda tells everything about the list itself. Proves my point more than anything.

 

[Eye of Ra]

The fact that you needed to add guys like Everberg or Nygard to the list to make it more numerous kinda tells everything about the list itself. Proves my point more than anything.

every single player on that list had a impact in nhl.

Lets just talk about 2 players for now, can u tell me how Magnus Arvedsson and Andreas Dackell had no impact?

 

[SoundAndFury]

every single player on that list had a impact in nhl.

Lets just take about 2 players for now, can u tell me how Magnus Arvedsson and Andreas Dackell had no impact?

Those 2 guys played in the NHL so long ago I literally haven't heard of them, I might have not even been born yet when they retired.

The rest of the list were complete non-impact pluggers, Zuccarello (who became an actual NHL player 3 years after playing in the SHL) and Franzen (who moved to the NHL 16 years ago and is also long retired).

So yes, once in a blue moon players like that emerge. Can you also make a list of SHL guys who didn't do anything? Like you know, the list guys like Wandell, Everberg or Nygard actually belong to.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Those 2 guys played in the NHL so long ago I literally haven't heard of them, I might have not even been born yet when they retired.

then more recently then. Im sure you heard about Johan Franzen and Zuccarello?

 

[SoundAndFury]

then more recently then. Im sure you heard about Johan Franzen and Zuccarello?

I expanded my post via edit.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Those 2 guys played in the NHL so long ago I literally haven't heard of them, I might have not even been born yet when they retired.

The rest of the list were complete non-impact pluggers, Zuccarello (who became an actual NHL player 3 years after playing in the SHL) and Franzen (who moved to the NHL 16 years ago and is also long retired).

So yes, once in a blue moon players like that emerge. Can you also make a list of SHL guys who didn't do anything? Like you know, the list guys like Wandell, Everberg or Nygard actually belong to.

zuccarello is an impact player in nhl and have been it for a while.

yes i know franzen is long retired, but why should we ignore history? if we go back in time, a decent amount of pretty old SHLers went to NHL and did good. As Franzen, Dackell, Arvedsson etc.

im well aware wandell, everberg and nygard did not have big impact, but they did have some impact. wandell played for dallas for 4 years. Colorado fans liked Everberg and what he brought to the table. Nygard 9 points in 33 games while mostly on 4th line is not bad.

 

[SoundAndFury]

yes i know franzen is long retired, but why should we ignore history? if we go back in time, a decent amount of pretty old SHLers went to NHL and did good. As Franzen, Dackell, Arvedsson etc.

I mean surely over time there have been very good players coming straight from the SHL (or the KHL, or the NLA, or Liiga). Point was that those are far and few between compared to the long list of guys who do next to nothing (again, applies to all leagues). I don't think that's a huge discovery or edgy opinion of any kind. It is how it is. Chances that Dahlen is one of those miracle cases are tiny.

 

[ZEBROA]

I mean surely over time there have been very good players coming straight from the SHL (or the KHL, or the NLA, or Liiga). Point was that those are far and few between compared to the long list of guys who do next to nothing (again, applies to all leagues). I don't think that's a huge discovery or edgy opinion of any kind. It is how it is. Chances that Dahlen is one of those miracle cases are tiny.

U could be right. But i hope u are wrong. Mostly depends on how much help he is given to succede.

And Sweden got 88players in NHL. Where do u think they came from? SBF? (Swedish Boule Association)

 

[wings5]

I would be very surprised if he went directly from Swedish 2nd tier to the NHL. The 2019-20 Swedish 2nd tier scoring champion had a 0.5 PPG in the SHL this year and the NHL is two steps up from the SHL.

themelkman explained it well . Also, it's important to notice that the Allsvenskan was much stronger than usual the first half of the season. Covid forced NHL teams to loan out players there instead of the SHL in order to avoid players having to stay the whole season in Europe. This makes what Dahlen did even more impressive.

 

[SoundAndFury]

And Sweden got 88players in NHL. Where do u think they came from? SBF? (Swedish Boule Association)

Most actually come from the AHL - the very same path Dahlen tried initially.

 

[BondraTime]

Those 2 guys played in the NHL so long ago I literally haven't heard of them, I might have not even been born yet when they retired.

The rest of the list were complete non-impact pluggers, Zuccarello (who became an actual NHL player 3 years after playing in the SHL) and Franzen (who moved to the NHL 16 years ago and is also long retired).

So yes, once in a blue moon players like that emerge. Can you also make a list of SHL guys who didn't do anything? Like you know, the list guys like Wandell, Everberg or Nygard actually belong to.

What were you, 7/8 when you made your account?

 

[ZEBROA]

Most actually come from the AHL - the very same path Dahlen tried initially.

For many of them its just to get used to the dump and chase and especialy the smaller ice. It is not that they are not good enough. Many teams got the players in AHL to long. Dahlen been in AHL as you said, and NHL already so it is not directly from allsvenskan.