Post-Game Talk (GBU): Lindy's revenge

[BowieSabresFan]

Kane-Oreilly-Reinhart

no exceptions. Deploy that line like an Ooreilly line should be deployed. Top minutes, best matchups, etc

Moulson-Eichel-Ennis

Feed them ozone starts, and get them changed on where Eichel can take advantage. Keep them away from D zone starts, and the opponents best offensive line.

Girgensons-Larsson-XXXX

Let them matchup, and take draws, and turn ice

4th line

Don't ever put Reinhart on this line again.

I can agree that this year it is probably the best option. I also agree that Reinhart should never see the 4th line again. That is a pure waste.

However, it seems apparent we need a good scoring winger to compliment Eichel. I'm more than willing to toss Ennis into the trade ring to try and bring one in.

 

[joshjull]

I can agree that this year it is probably the best option. I also agree that Reinhart should never see the 4th line again. That is a pure waste.

However, it seems apparent we need a good scoring winger to compliment Eichel. I'm more than willing to toss Ennis into the trade ring to try and bring one in.

We already have that winger in ROR. They could even be put together now with Eichel on the wing. But whenever Eichel emerges as the #1 center he is expected to be. The best option on his wing would be ROR.

 

[Bobby Bottle Service]

I hate the concept of a team being penalized for a **** job by the linesmen. They should make those calls consistently. Had they blown the play dead, the sabres wouldn't have scored the false goal and maybe the team wouldn't have lost so much momentum.

Also, and i know the two aren't strongly related, but how can the league want higher scoring games, but offer up a rule that reduces goals. Again, a bit of a stretch, but i am mad an venting.

Watching the game last night, I thought Ennis was offside at the time. But what are the Sabres supposed to do if they suspected it too? Everyone skate out of the zone while the linesmen are signalling that it's not necessary to do so?

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

Not a fan of the Coach's Challenge but Ennis has got to take the blame for the no goal.
He was the one who passed it and he was the one who was offside.
And F the linesman who missed the call.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

We already have that winger in ROR. They could even be put together now with Eichel on the wing. But whenever Eichel emerges as the #1 center he is expected to be. The best option on his wing would be ROR.

Fair point, and I realize that is most likely the plan down the road, and always was. I still think we need to bring in one more scoring scoring winger. We'll see.

 

[sba]

We already have that winger in ROR. They could even be put together now with Eichel on the wing. But whenever Eichel emerges as the #1 center he is expected to be. The best option on his wing would be ROR.

With ROR 4th in the NHL in faceoffs and being able to single-handedly carry any wingers they put with him, I'm not sure he's not going to be a C for a long, long time.

 

[dire wolf]

Not a fan of the Coach's Challenge but Ennis has got to take the blame for the no goal.
He was the one who passed it and he was the one who was offside.
And F the linesman who missed the call.

It's a stupid rule. Blaming Ennis for being 2 inches offside on that random instance is pointless. I'm sure other guys were offside on other plays that didn't get challenged because no goal was scored.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

It's a stupid rule. Blaming Ennis for being 2 inches offside on that random instance is pointless. I'm sure other guys were offside on other plays that didn't get challenged because no goal was scored.

Yeah, there's a clear "tie goes to the runner" mandate on the ice that isn't being carried over to review. Consistently allowing that zone entry and only calling back the times it leads to goals seems dum.

 

[oldgoalie]

it's a stupid ****ing rule that does nothing except:
slow the game
make the linesmen look like idiots
deflate any momentum a team may gain

 

[Moskau]

I understand Ennis' problems, but the hate around here is a bit ridiculous. He's still an incredibly dynamic offensive players.

Literally does not matter in today's NHL. There's a huge difference between someone who is highly skilled but doesn't generate scoring chances every shift like Sam Gagner and someone who is highly skilled but does generate scoring chances every shift like John Gaudreau. Ennis is picking up points right now simply because he has no choice but to given the ice time and zone stars he is getting. He just had a 4 game point streak snapped and I don't remember a single play he made on any of the points.

The simple fact is players like Ennis are useless in today's NHL. If you are going to be a small skilled forward you need to be all in like Patrick Kane, Johnny Gaudreau or even Tyler Johnson who is a product of other players but makes the most of his situation. You need to be a 70 point player to counter out the rest of your game. The 40 point coulda whoulda shoulda Tyler Ennis players that you have to stick on a top line to get minimal production out of are a waste of resources.

Ennis is nothing more than a slightly better Sam Gagner at this point of his career.

 

[Clock]

it's a stupid ****ing rule that does nothing except:
slow the game
make the linesmen look like idiots
deflate any momentum a team may gain

It also just makes the game less fun. Can't enjoy goals until we're sure that this BS isn't going to be invoked.

Were goals scored after being offsides really ever that much of an issue beforehand?

Blech. Hopefully once all of the fanbases have had a taste of this it'll be pretty clear that no one will want it. I don't even care that it's going to eventually work in our favor at some point, it hurts the entertainment value of the game.

 

[Moskau]

It's a stupid rule. Blaming Ennis for being 2 inches offside on that random instance is pointless. I'm sure other guys were offside on other plays that didn't get challenged because no goal was scored.

It's stupid and blaming Ennis for one instance is stupid but this is the second game in a row where Ennis has passed the puck to someo0ne and went over the blue line himself because he is a dumb player.

 

[stokes84]

Literally does not matter in today's NHL. There's a huge difference between someone who is highly skilled but doesn't generate scoring chances every shift like Sam Gagner and someone who is highly skilled but does generate scoring chances every shift like John Gaudreau. Ennis is picking up points right now simply because he has no choice but to given the ice time and zone stars he is getting. He just had a 4 game point streak snapped and I don't remember a single play he made on any of the points.

The simple fact is players like Ennis are useless in today's NHL. If you are going to be a small skilled forward you need to be all in like Patrick Kane, Johnny Gaudreau or even Tyler Johnson who is a product of other players but makes the most of his situation. You need to be a 70 point player to counter out the rest of your game. The 40 point coulda whoulda shoulda Tyler Ennis players that you have to stick on a top line to get minimal production out of are a waste of resources.

Ennis is nothing more than a slightly better Sam Gagner at this point of his career.

We need more passengers, damn it!

 

[Moskau]

We need more passengers, damn it!

Why does needing to get rid of passengers also negate the notion that players like Tyler Ennis just aren't that effective in today's NHL?

 

[stokes84]

It's stupid and blaming Ennis for one instance is stupid but this is the second game in a row where Ennis has passed the puck to someo0ne and went over the blue line himself because he is a dumb player.

Yet you would have nothing to be mad about if he didn't go set the screen that allowed Reinhart to score. Just another shallow narrative from you.

 

[stokes84]

Why does needing to get rid of passengers also negate the notion that players like Tyler Ennis just aren't that effective in today's NHL?

I don't feel like getting into semantics, but calling Ennis ineffective is just not correct, and you are acknowledging it by admitting that he isn't a passenger. He absolutely effects the game. Now, if you want to argue that he isn't good enough, that's for you to do. But I have much more of an issue with the players that struggle to impact the game (passengers) before I get to Ennis.

 

[Moskau]

I don't feel like getting into semantics, but calling Ennis ineffective is just not correct, and you are acknowledging it by admitting that he isn't a passenger. He absolutely effects the game. Now, if you want to argue that he isn't good enough, that's for you to do. But I have much more of an issue with the players that struggle to impact the game (passengers) before I get to Ennis.

He impacts the game but not nearly enough to balance out everything that is wrong with him. Given his ice time and where he has to play in the lineup to not be a complete train wreck it's fair to say he's about as valuable as a passenger. We likely don't have any viable alternatives to him but in the future he needs to not be on the team for the team to take a step forward.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

All problems will be solved once Gionta starts double shifting.

*eats snickers*

*is no longer Dan Bylsma*

 

[sabrebuild]

I don't feel like getting into semantics, but calling Ennis ineffective is just not correct, and you are acknowledging it by admitting that he isn't a passenger. He absolutely effects the game. Now, if you want to argue that he isn't good enough, that's for you to do. But I have much more of an issue with the players that struggle to impact the game (passengers) before I get to Ennis.

Why use terms like passenger vs driver in this context? Just measure good plays vs bad plays.

A potential parallel could be hecht vs Afinogenov. Some would say hecht was a passenger compared to Afinogenov, but it's hard to argue Hecht wasn't the more effective player.

Now obviously you don't think the bad outweighs the good, but as a philosophy a player who "makes an impact" doesn't automatically equate to effective in my mind.

 

[sabrebuild]

Hockey IQ is about as subjective a topic as you can get. Its pretty much subjective observational opinions. Moskau declaring his stance on Eichel's hockey IQ is no more the gospel truth then if I stated I disagree and don't see that player.

So instead I tried to point out, maybe not as well as I could have, how perception shapes opinions. And perception is shaped by how a player is playing. Which is in turn influenced by how they are used. If Eichel was playing in a much lesser role like Reinhart is. I doubt we'd see the decrying of his hockey IQ like we're seeing right now from Moskau. Because he would be getting easier minutes and playing better in them. His hockey IQ wouldn't have changed but his performance would have. Then maybe a poster wouldn't be as frustrated that his hockey IQ isn't as advertised.

You can disagree with me laying it out this way. But with Hockey IQ as subjective as it is I don't think its a horrible way to make the point.


I also doved tailed into my general frustration with how Bylsma is using players. That series of questions about the coaching and player usage was its own separate point.

Oh i agree with your general unhappiness with the lines and ice time.

I would agree that determining a players iq is subjective in the sense there are no hard measurements, but it's not a mystical assessment.

His ice time could be limited to easier matchups, but it's not his matchups that show the mistakes. He is struggling to make the right choices without the puck, regularly. Not in panic situations were he needs to recover, but in controlled situations both offensively and defensively.

It was something that was noticeable in ncaa as well. And its not the end of the world. Just something he clearly needs to work on, and long term could be the difference between him and perfection.

I say all this and still believe he should comfortably get to a Malkin level player.

 

[B U F F A L O]

I noticed this and made a comment a couple games ago about it, but I continue to see it in our games -- we are not very good at supporting the puck as a 5 man unit. Its why we often see guys go at it alone -- eichel, Ennis, foligno, ROR. no one is supporting these guys when they have the puck looking to make plays. a lot of standing around watching and floating. is it a chemistry issue? a system issue? I tend to lean more towards the later but somewhat a mix of the two. I lean towards system issue because I constantly see guys making the simple play -- chip it out, high off the glass, dump and chase, I have to get off the ice and change -- when better options are there. It seems the lack of puck support when we have a driver in the puck is players staying in their lanes or thinking more defensive. how many odd man rushes do we create and convert on? its a very low number.

Eichel is a fantastic player, but I also have early concerns about decision he makes specifically in puck support role when he doesn't have the puck. he doesn't show a desire to want the puck very much.

 

[Onslow]

It also just makes the game less fun. Can't enjoy goals until we're sure that this BS isn't going to be invoked.

Were goals scored after being offsides really ever that much of an issue beforehand?

Blech. Hopefully once all of the fanbases have had a taste of this it'll be pretty clear that no one will want it. I don't even care that it's going to eventually work in our favor at some point, it hurts the entertainment value of the game.

Well, when a goal comes from a quick rush down the ice and its offsides, then yeah it can contribute to the goal. But when a goal comes after sustained offensive zone pressure (like what keep happening to the Sabres), then a missed offsides call is a lot less important.

 

[Jame]

I don't feel like getting into semantics, but calling Ennis ineffective is just not correct, and you are acknowledging it by admitting that he isn't a passenger. He absolutely effects the game. Now, if you want to argue that he isn't good enough, that's for you to do. But I have much more of an issue with the players that struggle to impact the game (passengers) before I get to Ennis.

Bolded doesn't make sense...

Regardless, the issue here seems more about your limited understanding of what impacts the game.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I don't feel like getting into semantics, but calling Ennis ineffective is just not correct, and you are acknowledging it by admitting that he isn't a passenger. He absolutely effects the game. Now, if you want to argue that he isn't good enough, that's for you to do. But I have much more of an issue with the players that struggle to impact the game (passengers) before I get to Ennis.

You're using effective to mean "he does stuff that impacts the game."

Everyone else is using effective to mean "he positively impacts the game," which Tyler Ennis absolutely has not done this season.

He's a passenger because you have to bend over backwards to accommodate what he can't do before his work rate turns into positive aggregate production.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Ennis is 3rd in points with 2 less games. Sounds like he is being used as a scapegoat.