Post-Game Talk (GBU): Lindy's revenge

[stokes84]

The criticism of Eichel and Ennis are pretty funny when you consider they were basically a two man line. They get into the offensive zone and Larsson is skating around with his stick off the ice or one hand on the stick, not really doing anything. He eventually got removed from the line in favor of Moulson, right after Ennis set him up in front of the net fora scoring chance, but he just stood there like a pylon with his stick in the air. Predictably, there were immediately 4 posts in the GDT bashing Ennis for turning it over. Other than Ennis getting owned on the first goal, they were pretty decent yesterday. Not great, but able to create a few scoring chances between the two of them. The third player in that line was an anchor, but nobody wants to acknowledge that he probably needs a few games in the minors to wake him up.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Also, my biggest problems with CC are:
1. I think the refs are letting close calls go, knowing that it can be corrected later, which....
2. It makes me nervous every time the Sabres carry the puck over the line that they were offsides. It made the game hard to watch.
3. I really, really hate it. I've never hated a rule change more.

I'm trying to just get used to this rule as the new law of the land, but you make a good point with #2. It's adding the part that makes football unwatchable for me, which is that you have to watch dozens of plays unfold per game, only for them to be called off for one reason or another. It drives me nuts and, like you said, makes me nervous that every great play will be undone afterward.

 

[Jame]

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2015/06/05/eichel-says-hes-best-available-player/

The Sabres agree. Greg Royce, the director of amateur scouting, watches Eichel with wonder.

“You watch him and you just shake your head, ‘How does he do that?’ †Royce said in First Niagara Center. “You have to replay it in your mind. His ability to pull away from back pressure and his skating, it’s elite already for the NHL. His ability to make plays where there was nothing, his hockey sense and skills, he’s going to be a very exciting player that Buffalo is going to be able to enjoy for many years.â€

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/12/30/nhl-scout-evaluates-mcdavid-eichel-ahead-of-matchup

An NHL scouting director evaluates McDavid, Eichel

BRAINS (Hockey sense/smarts)

“Unbelievable. He’s the type of guy who you think is cornered but he’s far from it. He understands what defenders are going to do and he has the patience to wait until it plays out before he takes advantage of the play. He makes plays sometimes because he draws guys to him. He’ll have two guys coming towards him and you’ll be saying: ‘Get rid of it, get rid of it.’ He’ll wait until the last second, then complete it. He did that at camp in Lake Placid. He held a guy off with one hand and I’m thinking ‘Jack, dump it in, the defenceman is coming to hit you.’ Instead he waited until the last second, then he flips a perfect saucer pass to his teammate. He controls the play and he does it on his own time. He knew what the defenceman was going to do, had the anticipation and had the patience to wait for the defenceman to do it. He sucked him in, He just doesn’t panic.â€

http://www.usahockeymagazine.com/article/2014-12/great-expectations

Eichel does that with kind of a perfect storm of hockey sense and high-level skill. Ask three different coaches who have worked with him on-ice, and you get three different answers about what makes him such an impact player.

“He makes coaches smarter,†joked Don Lucia, the long-time University of Minnesota coach who worked with Eichel at last year’s World Junior Championship in Malmo, Sweden.

BU Coach David Quinn marvels at what a complete package of offensive sense and tools Eichel brings to the ice, and long before the freshman ever faced a real opponent, knew where he would fit in on the Terriers’ depth chart.

We are talking about his play on the ice right now... but cool scouting reports, never read those

 

[Jame]

In in the defensive/neutral zone I'd be inclined to agree that he is out of place quite a bit. I believe part of the issue is that he's always had the wheels to bail him out when he gets caught in a bad position, so he's never had to learn proper defensive positions. There is a little bit of lack of engagement compared to how hard he back checked the first couple games.

However, in the offensive zone, he knows where the puck is going. He's certainly forced a few too many passes (last night he tried to thread the needle through 3 skaters to get to Ennis in the slot), however, without the puck he tends to get in the right spot the majority of the time. His offensive zone awareness is great.

agreed

 

[Jame]

This thread feels pretty similar to when a group of posters were crapping on Girgs IQ after one or two sub par outings. Before Dal and SJ, I saw a little bit of floating but his IQ and 2-way play was praised for the majority of the games. Is it really a surprise that a cocky 19 year old tries to do too much offensively and loses focus on defensive.

No it's not surprising. At least you can admit that it's happening.

People want to create to create a narrative that he had average hockey IQ after 2 bad games. Unfortunately, I remember the 1st 16 games and he played great.

His NHL level hockey IQ is a work in progress.
He has all the tools, sense, and work ethic... that it's not a long term concern.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Also, my biggest problems with CC are:
1. I think the refs are letting close calls go, knowing that it can be corrected later, which....
2. It makes me nervous every time the Sabres carry the puck over the line that they were offsides. It made the game hard to watch.
3. I really, really hate it. I've never hated a rule change more.

I hate the concept of a team being penalized for a **** job by the linesmen. They should make those calls consistently. Had they blown the play dead, the sabres wouldn't have scored the false goal and maybe the team wouldn't have lost so much momentum.

Also, and i know the two aren't strongly related, but how can the league want higher scoring games, but offer up a rule that reduces goals. Again, a bit of a stretch, but i am mad an venting.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

The criticism of Eichel and Ennis are pretty funny when you consider they were basically a two man line. They get into the offensive zone and Larsson is skating around with his stick off the ice or one hand on the stick, not really doing anything. He eventually got removed from the line in favor of Moulson, right after Ennis set him up in front of the net fora scoring chance, but he just stood there like a pylon with his stick in the air. Predictably, there were immediately 4 posts in the GDT bashing Ennis for turning it over. Other than Ennis getting owned on the first goal, they were pretty decent yesterday. Not great, but able to create a few scoring chances between the two of them. The third player in that line was an anchor, but nobody wants to acknowledge that he probably needs a few games in the minors to wake him up.

You're such a martyr.

What has Ennis done this season to look like a top six forward in the NHL?

 

[stokes84]

You're such a martyr.

What has Ennis done this season to look like a top six forward in the NHL?

2nd on the team in ES scoring despite missing two games?

But by all means, let's criticize Eichel and Ennis and talk about their IQ while completely ignoring the offensive troglodyte tthey had on their line.

 

[flyingpig]

Does this fall under "the more talented you are, the more protected you are from criticism" umbrella?

Yes, Eichel is 19. Did you think anyone didn't know that?

Sure they knew he is 19. However, it was fully expected that he would have games where he struggles in adapting to the NHL rigors. Bylsma, knew these nights would come and knew he would have to coach him through them.

This is all about perspective. Its fine to criticize the young star player, but not to claim that a three games stretch is indicative of the player he is or will be.

Lacking hockey IQ.... about 10 days ago, this board was praising his play with and without the puck all day long.

 

[Lock3Boys]

No one is crapping on Eichel. It's simply fair criticism of a particular aspect of his game so far.

Those getting all butt hurt over it are the ones that need to get a grip

I agree with all this, nobody is calling Jack a bust, but he deserves the criticism he is getting. Joshjull is right also, why is disco Dan getting a pass in comparison? His lines have sucked all year, and don't get me started on his use of Gionta.

We play best when we are aggressive, and play a 2-1-2, he needs to quit letting other teams dictate our style, especially at home. Last night looked like a 1-2-2, and not a heavy or aggressive one either. Sure it was effective at limiting the Dallas chances, but we were trailing from early in the first. I didn't see the end of the second, or third, so maybe he changed things up? Overall I like him as our coach, and have given him a pass on the lines due to him needing to figure out our players, but almost 20 games in and I'm losing patience. Based on personnel, this team should be much better 5v5 and way more exciting offensively.

One last thing, I'm ready to move on from Ennis, and not just the dumb offsides that cost us goals twice now. So sick of him trying to dangle around players, and then turning over the puck after he circles the offensive zone. Eichel dangles and dishes or shoots, I don't understand Ennis reasons for doing it. I already know he can, but other than a few times a season, his dangles don't equate to anything except an eventual turnover and odd man rush against. If we are gonna attack anyone's hockey IQ, lets start with his.

Sorry with my negative tone, I usually try not to post in this state of aggravation.

 

[Jame]

2nd on the team in ES scoring despite missing two games?

But by all means, let's criticize Eichel and Ennis and talk about their IQ while completely ignoring the offensive troglodyte tthey had on their line.

0.93 ES GF on Per 60... that's ugly
Only McGinn and Gionta have a worse GF/GA per differential...

 

[Zip15]

2nd on the team in ES scoring despite missing two games?

Which shouldn't be surprising given he has the 3rd most ESTOI on the team. When you even the playing field and go with ES pts/60, he's 8th on the team (1.17 pts/60 - which is the type of numbers average 3rd line players put up). It's even bleaker picture when you look at his primary points/60 - hardly an "analytic" lamp post, as you'd say, because it shows us how many goals he scores or creates with a primary assist. In that measure, he's T-12th. He needs to be better.

You take all this stuff as digs against Ennis. I get frustrated because I expect more from him because he is talented, and I think he should be able to give more.

 

[Jame]

Sure they knew he is 19. However, it was fully expected that he would have games where he struggles in adapting to the NHL rigors. Bylsma, knew these nights would come and knew he would have to coach him through them.

I'm not sure what was fully expected around here. Those expectations spanned the spectrum.

This is all about perspective. Its fine to criticize the young star player, but not to claim that a three games stretch is indicative of the player he is or will be.

exactly.

 

[Everlast22]

He just needs to work on his drive. He seems like the calm cool and collected type, which is fine, but he needs to work on that. He's a great complete player in the making. It's getting harder and harder to score.

 

[stokes84]

You take all this stuff as digs against Ennis. I get frustrated because I expect more from him because he is talented, and I think he should be able to give more.

I agree with a lot of what you say. Ennis does need to be better. I just get frustrated with how it is singled out so often here. I suppose that is because he is a visible player that is highly involved. He is not a passenger. It frustrated me because people don't recognize that that is a major skill in itself. There are a lot of passengers. I have a much harder time with them.

 

[Jame]

I agree with a lot of what you say. Ennis does need to be better. I just get frustrated with how it is singled out so often here. I suppose that is because he is a visible player that is highly involved. He is not a passenger. It frustrated me because people don't recognize that that is a major skill in itself. There are a lot of passengers. I have a much harder time with them.

He's definitely not a passenger.

It's just that he spends so much time running red lights and driving the car in to a ditch, that he simply cannot be relied on to drive the car without getting someone killed.

 

[Icicle]

G: The system works. The team was in complete possession of the puck almost the entire game against the best offensive team out there. The two goals against were 1) flukey from a slow start and 2) just capitalization on one of their very very few real opportunities

Bogo is changing the dynamic of our defense for the better. The only weakness it creates now is that Psysk is struggling to take passes from the corner and turn it into shots since he is on his off-hand side. Hopefully he can work through this. The defense was amazing tonight against the league's best offense.

Ullmark should be getting the majority of the games over Johnson right now. He is playing well enough.


B: The forward lines, despite the system improvements, don't work. The players are figuring out how to cycle the puck to the defense and take a hopefully screened shot, but outside of that, every odd-man rush or forward to forward pass is simply awful and usually results in turnovers because they are passing to nobody or can't hit tape-to-tape. Good teams turn these things into scoring chances, like tonight where the small handful of real possession Dallas had was tape to tape to quick shot from the slot. I'll attribute a lot of this to Byslma's awful player usage. Reinhart should be stapled to ROR. Hes figured this out multiple times this season, but won't stick to it. He has some thing where he has to play Reinhart under 10 minutes and Gionta over 15, so it screws all the line dynamics and quite frankly, wastes time on the ice with players who don't finish. Look at Giontas multiple missed opportunities tonight. He just can't hack it anymore, no matter how smart or gunho he is. Eichel needs a real grinder on his line (Girgensons or Foligno or Kane), not McGinn or Larsson. Both those players just lose the puck every time it gets near them unless they are dumping and chasing, which is something Eichel, as a player, simply doesn't do. It isn't his game.

The criticism of Eichel has some merit, but he doesn't need to be a ROR along the boards to be an amazing player. He just needs linemates that work with him and he isn't getting that. He does float and run into players in the defensive zone, which is something he really does need to work on, but if he had the linemates I suggested above I don't think that'd nearly be a problem like it is now.

U: Gionta getting minutes. Ugly. Schaller getting minutes over better options like Larsson to 3C leads directly the 2nd goal against, the only real one I'll call for the game. Ugly.

 

[Myllz]

As much as I hated it at the beginning of the year, I think Dan needs to try Kane and Eichel again when he's back in the lineup. There's no other real options for a talented winger for Eichel, so might as well put them back together to see if they can create.

 

[Mattilaus]

As much as I hated it at the beginning of the year, I think Dan needs to try Kane and Eichel again when he's back in the lineup. There's no other real options for a talented winger for Eichel, so might as well put them back together to see if they can create.

Well the practice lines had Kane-Eichel-Reinhart together. If it works that COULD be a ridiculous line.

 

[Jame]

As much as I hated it at the beginning of the year, I think Dan needs to try Kane and Eichel again when he's back in the lineup. There's no other real options for a talented winger for Eichel, so might as well put them back together to see if they can create.

Kane-Oreilly-Reinhart

no exceptions. Deploy that line like an Ooreilly line should be deployed. Top minutes, best matchups, etc

Moulson-Eichel-Ennis

Feed them ozone starts, and get them changed on where Eichel can take advantage. Keep them away from D zone starts, and the opponents best offensive line.

Girgensons-Larsson-XXXX

Let them matchup, and take draws, and turn ice

4th line

Don't ever put Reinhart on this line again.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I agree with a lot of what you say. Ennis does need to be better. I just get frustrated with how it is singled out so often here. I suppose that is because he is a visible player that is highly involved. He is not a passenger. It frustrated me because people don't recognize that that is a major skill in itself. There are a lot of passengers. I have a much harder time with them.

But Ennis is absolutely a passenger from a roster construction perspective. He can't play on the first line except as its third option. He can't play on the checking line because he's one of the three worst defensive forwards on the team. Even as a depth scorer he still needs complimentary linemates and favorable deployments, which gets in the way of the development of Eichart. He's not bringing anything to this team compared to his deficiencies. He has double the turnovers of any non-O'Reilly forward and the worst shot surpression materics on the team.

 

[stokes84]

But Ennis is absolutely a passenger from a roster construction perspective. He can't play on the first line except as its third option. He can't play on the checking line because he's one of the three worst defensive forwards on the team. Even as a depth scorer he still needs complimentary linemates and favorable deployments, which gets in the way of the development of Eichart. He's not bringing anything to this team compared to his deficiencies. He has double the turnovers of any non-O'Reilly forward and the worst shot surpression materics on the team.

I don't understand what point you are trying to make here. The third option on the top line should be a passenger? The 2nd line needs more than one good player? There isn't room for offensive players down the line up? This is a bunch of bologna.

 

[dire wolf]

I understand Ennis' problems, but the hate around here is a bit ridiculous. He's still an incredibly dynamic offensive players. He's not playing his best hockey right now, but he'll come around. He's generating potential scoring chances.

Meanwhile, I came in this thread to say how much Schaller sucked last night. I liked him last year, but he was godawful yesterday at both ends of the ice.

While I'm here, I'll add that I was very pleasantly surprised with Bogo. He looked great considering how much time he missed. I hope Pysyk can get adjusted to the left side.

Bogo, Risto, Pysyk, McCabe, Gorges and Franson is a pretty decent group -- much better than I expected.

ROR is a maniac. Love this guy.

Reinhart is going to be really, really good.

 

[Myllz]

Kane-Oreilly-Reinhart

no exceptions. Deploy that line like an Ooreilly line should be deployed. Top minutes, best matchups, etc

Moulson-Eichel-Ennis

Feed them ozone starts, and get them changed on where Eichel can take advantage. Keep them away from D zone starts, and the opponents best offensive line.

Girgensons-Larsson-XXXX

Let them matchup, and take draws, and turn ice

4th line

Don't ever put Reinhart on this line again.

As much as I want to see Kane - O'Reilly - Reinhart, I also don't want to see Ennis - Eichel anymore. Bleh.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I don't understand what point you are trying to make here. The third option on the top line should be a passenger?

The only way Tyler Ennis can be a successful part of an NHL first line involves an already-high-impact forward pairing who would drive results with most-anyone riding shotgun.

The 2nd line needs more than one good player?

Tyler Ennis' defense is so bad that he basically cannot play on a checking line, the other half of almost every team's top six.

There isn't room for offensive players down the line up?

Not really, when weak QoC/OZS deployments can go to Eichel or Reinhart, and Ennis can't really play with those guys between his style of play and defensive deficiencies.

This is a bunch of bologna.

Only if you're being obtuse.

Ennis has only ever been successful on a team with:
A) a functional five man checking unit
B) a better offensive player on another line
C) sheltered deployments (QoC and OZS)
D) complimentary linemates

He's done essentially nothing outside of the most favorable situation a forward can ask for. Again, Ennis is not complete enough to be a top six forward and the opportunity cost of playing him on the third line is too big.