Lightning Rod Hyman: the pyrrhic battle continues

[Mess]

the team was sailing along just fine yet Babs still flipped Marner and Brown even though he didn't have one single game to prove that his theory of flipping them would work instead of destroying 2 lines by trying to improve 1

also why another long winded reply when a simple yes or no will suffice?

The Bozak line was bad and bleeding goals against defensively so Babcock broke it up in hopes of addressing an obvious problem.

After making the change Brown scored back to back game winners and Leafs won both games via good coaching.
&
Breaking up a line that is performing at a high level for no reason, while the team is winning would be bad coaching.

You're using an example of fixing what was broken to get better results to defend breaking up something that isn't broken.

Personally I only call a plumber when I have a leak or see the Doctor when I have an illness, otherwise I don't need them when everything is fine. The Matthews line is neither leaking nor is it sick.

 

[Suntouchable13]

He's got more points than Jonathan Drouin, LMAO!

 

[hotpaws]

The Bozak line was bad and bleeding goals against defensively so Babcock broke it up in hopes of addressing an obvious problem.

After making the change Brown scored back to back game winners and Leafs won both games via good coaching.
&
Breaking up a line that is performing at a high level for no reason, while the team is winning would be bad coaching.

You're using an example of fixing what was broken to get better results to defend breaking up something that isn't broken.

Personally I only call a plumber when I have a leak or see the Doctor when I have an illness, otherwise I don't need them when everything is fine. The Matthews line is neither leaking nor is it sick.

The team was winning so why does it matter if a line was struggling in a very small sample size ?

also as you said earlier he had no evidence that the changes would work yet he still made the switch

and why are you and the other posters constantly avoiding/shifting/deflecting from answering my simple question ?

do you or do you not believe Mathews and Nylander would form a dominant line without Hyman as part of it

 

[saltming]

He's got more points than Jonathan Drouin, LMAO!

And more career points than Ritchie in less games and out scored Vesey last year but did play 2 more games.

 

[Nithoniniel]

do you or do you not believe Mathews and Nylander would form a dominant line without Hyman as part of it

I'll bite!

I don't think even Matthews and Nylander would be able to dominate without a third guy on that line.

 

[hotpaws]

I'll bite!

I don't think even Matthews and Nylander would be able to dominate without a third guy on that line.

one simple question and all his supporters have gone silent (so far anyway) , sad that not even one of his fan club has defended him

 

[BlueBaron]

The team was winning so why does it matter if a line was struggling in a very small sample size ?

also as you said earlier he had no evidence that the changes would work yet he still made the switch

and why are you and the other posters constantly avoiding/shifting/deflecting from answering my simple question ?

do you or do you not believe Mathews and Nylander would form a dominant line without Hyman as part of it

This is something that seems to be lost on a lot of fans here. Babcock gets to see who works well together and who has chemistry in training camp and practice while we really do not. People come out with these bold proclamations about "this would be better" without know if it was tried and found wanting. This of course goes back to my theme of his decisions being more informed than our own.

Another thing being overlooked is no one said Marner was never going to be back with JVR and Bozak. This was about sending a message to not just Marner but Bozak and JVR as well. We all know how far we go in the playoffs hinges on our ability to cut down on goals against. Now is the obvious time to correct those short comings where we can so Lou knows who needs to go and who needs to be gained.

Marner is our 2nd to 4rth best forward and a big part of our future. He is not a finished product yet so we need to expect growing pains and further adjustments. Makes the most sense to get this stuff sorted out now rather than later.

 

[Nithoniniel]

one simple question and all his supporters have gone silent (so far anyway) , sad that not even one of his fan club has defended him

Yeah. It's just terribly hard to defend a guy whose production is supposed to be his weak point, and his production pace would put him top 10 league-wide in non-PP points. Especially when faced with all these strong arguments you bring to the table.

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah. It's just terribly hard to defend a guy whose production is supposed to be his weak point, and his production pace would put him top 10 league-wide in non-PP points. Especially when faced with all these strong arguments you bring to the table.

then why do you and the rest of his supporters continue to avoid answering the question i asked ?

and where did you get he's top 10 in non pp points ?

 

[Mitchy]

I was a bit hesitant to see that he retained his spot on the first line at the start of the camp, but he has been phenomenal this season.

Happily surprised by his improved offensive ability. He's still not a great passer, but he's improved his stackhandling quite a bit and has seems like he's learned some new trick and techniques to score. Very happy for him. Hopefully, he keeps it up.

 

[Polaris1010]

one simple question and all his supporters have gone silent (so far anyway) , sad that not even one of his fan club has defended him

"Methinks thou dost protest too much".

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

one simple question and all his supporters have gone silent (so far anyway) , sad that not even one of his fan club has defended him

This was one of the points I was trying to make early on. Yes the line is working with Hyman on it so there’s no immediate need to break it up, but let’s be real here. Matthew and Nylander are the one moving the line along. Nylander is a possession monster and Matthews is Matthews. Nobody wants to answer the question because if you say no than Matthews and Nylander aren’t as good as we pump them up to be. If you say yes then the arguments for Hyman being a first line winger on a playoff team that wants to go deep start to dwindle.

Right now things are going well so you can’t complain. But the season is 82 games. Let’s hope this team is legit and doesn’t have to go through any rough spots, but if Hyman goes massive stretches without scoring a goal ES again that is unacceptable especially when Matthews is setting you up with some of the best opportunities available in the whole league. We’ll see how it all plays out.

 

[RLF]

yet another poster who refuses to answer a simple yes or no question and instead writes a novel to shift the discussion

If you say so. That's is the point right? The real point is your question above is not your argument, but if you want an answer...it is simple-impossible to know for sure because they are together and no one else has played with them. Is it reasonable to assume Brown for instance could play there and do well. Yes, he probably could. Automatically better? No one knows, the line could end up producing less. The real question is...why is it so necessary for everyone to believe you are right and a change is necessary? That one can be answered. Yours can't.

 

[PuckMagi]

Hyman has improved a lot so far over last season in my opinion. I've upgraded him from beer leaguer to 4th line NHL / AHL tweener status. This is a huge improvement.

I think he has the talent to be a bottom 6 NHL forward (something I didn't really think he had last year).

However, I still think the following wingers are better than him: Kapanen, Leivo, Johnsson, Soshnikov.

Though he is better than Martin for whatever that's worth.

 

[RLF]

This was one of the points I was trying to make early on. Yes the line is working with Hyman on it so there’s no immediate need to break it up, but let’s be real here. Matthew and Nylander are the one moving the line along. Nylander is a possession monster and Matthews is Matthews. Nobody wants to answer the question because if you say no than Matthews and Nylander aren’t as good as we pump them up to be. If you say yes then the arguments for Hyman being a first line winger on a playoff team that wants to go deep start to dwindle.

Right now things are going well so you can’t complain. But the season is 82 games. Let’s hope this team is legit and doesn’t have to go through any rough spots, but if Hyman goes massive stretches without scoring a goal ES again that is unacceptable especially when Matthews is setting you up with some of the best opportunities available in the whole league. We’ll see how it all plays out.

You did watch last years playoffs I assume...notice which line lead the Leafs there too, and how well Hyman played in the playoffs. His game is actually better suited for the playoffs than regular season. Your playoff argument actually has history to refute it.

 

[saltming]

one simple question and all his supporters have gone silent (so far anyway) , sad that not even one of his fan club has defended him

 

[RLF]

one simple question and all his supporters have gone silent (so far anyway) , sad that not even one of his fan club has defended him

One simple fact...he has produced this year and last playoffs, yet his bashers just keep on going.

 

[Nithoniniel]

then why do you and the rest of his supporters continue to avoid answering the question i asked ?

I did answer.

and where did you get he's top 10 in non pp points ?

His pace would have put him top 5 last year.

Nobody wants to answer the question because if you say no than Matthews and Nylander aren’t as good as we pump them up to be. If you say yes then the arguments for Hyman being a first line winger on a playoff team that wants to go deep start to dwindle.

I'd guess that nobody wants to entertain the question seriously because 1) we see it as a non-issue, as you yourself pointed out, 2) the topic has been discussed with the level of detail it deserves already, 3) we all realize that a yes/no question oversimplifies an issue with a lot of nuances. As such, it's a waste of time.

The question forces us to put credit either with Hyman, or with his linemates. Most of us realize that neither option would be accurate. Hotpaws likely just want us to answer it because it provides only two positions, one is with him and the other is on the other extreme.

 

[hotpaws]

His pace would have put him top 5 last year.

and his pace this year isn't top 10 like you keep repeating

 

[Nithoniniel]

and his pace this year isn't top 10 like you keep repeating

It would have been last year. That's what I've been referring to every time I've mentioned this. Referring to where his pace would put him this year would be nonsensical, as pace would allude to a full year and this season has just started.

He's on pace for 58 non-PP points, which would have been #5 in the league last year, one point ahead of Panarin.

 

[hotpaws]

It would have been last year. That's what I've been referring to every time I've mentioned this.

He's on a pace for 58 non-PP points, which would have been #5 in the league last year, one point ahead of Panarin.

and wtf does this have to do with anything ?

his pace this year doesn't put him in the top 10 and that's with 4 out his 5 points coming down to either luck or the skill of his line mates

 

[Nithoniniel]

and wtf does this have to do with anything ?

his pace this year doesn't put him in the top 10 and that's with 4 out his 5 points coming down to either luck or the skill of his line mates

It shows how good his production is considering he has not had PP time. Do I really need to spell out why that is relevant?

 

[hotpaws]

It shows how good his production is considering he has not had PP time. Do I really need to spell out why that is relevant?

it shows scoring is up and he's benefiting from playing on a high scoring team


lets break down his production

goals

-nice move on the breakaway
-scramble in the net area
-deflection off his body

assists

-puck scrummed off the boards deep in our zone to Rielly who made a nice feed to Kads who made an even nicer move and scored into an empty net
-picked up a loose puck just over the offensive blue line and slid a simple 3 foot pass to AM who then moved in and scored a goal very few players could

so basically almost all his production is a result of the line mates he has and the mins he plays

 

[Bullseye]

one simple question and all his supporters have gone silent (so far anyway) , sad that not even one of his fan club has defended him

I can't find your original point but I think the question was whether AM & WN would be a dominant line regardless of who their winger is, Hyman or anyone else. The obvious answer is "Maybe". AM was pretty damn good at the NHL World Cup without either Nylander or Hyman. But as to why Hyman's "supporters" have gone silent as you call it - pretty sure it's a pearls before swine thing - just guessing though.

 

[frizzer1]

so basically almost all his production is a result of the line mates he has and the mins he plays

Yup..

he has 2 tremendous offensive players who create chance after chance. He should be getting points just standing there