Post-Game Talk: Lightnight 7, Penguins 1: The Niemi Chronicles

[Gurglesons]

Last year Maatta got ripped because he was struggling badly, and rightfully so. He went through more set backs than most people go through in their lives. Shoulder surgeries, mumps, cancer, broken hand... you name it. He went through it. That's why many people here were patient and wanted to see how he came out of it. Some were very impatient, as you see everyday here, and wanted him traded. The organization believed in him because they knew the kid's dedication was top notch.

As for Dumo - he was a freaking beast in the playoffs. Dominant. Played out of his mind and played like a #1. He was fantastic. He was fantastic in both Cup runs. That's why he gets a lot of cushion before he gets bashed, even though many posters are calling out his poor play.

Uh.. he has a negative relative Corsi and Fenwick for and six points.

In what world is that "dominant"?

There were three players that were "dominant" last year in terms of skaters and they were Malkin, Crosby, and Jake. Everyone else was a carousel in the playoffs and the revisionist history of any one on our D being "dominant" is insane. Dumo was terrible in the Columbus series and neutral against Ottawa. Him and Hainsey were great in the Nashville series, I can agree there.

 

[ColePens]

Uh.. he has a negative relative Corsi and Fenwick for and six points.

In what world is that "dominant"?

Cool. Did you watch the games? He was playing as a #1 defender and I think our defense is vastly underrated from the Cup run. Oh but so many shots against! I don't give a shit. I thought Schultz/Cole/Dumo were really good last year. I think Hainsey was vastly underrated for what he did. Maatta has his struggles but wasn't as bad as everyone made him out to be. And Daley was up and down, too. I think the defense was vastly underrated for what they were being asked to do. Everyone was asked to step up and play at a level higher than they should be playing. IMO - they bent, but they delivered.

 

[Gurglesons]

Cool. Did you watch the games? He was playing as a #1 defender and I think our defense is vastly underrated from the Cup run. Oh but so many shots against! I don't give a ****. I thought Schultz/Cole/Dumo were really good last year. I think Hainsey was vastly underrated for what he did. Maatta has his struggles but wasn't as bad as everyone made him out to be. And Daley was up and down, too. I think the defense was vastly underrated for what they were being asked to do. Everyone was asked to step up and play at a level higher than they should be playing. IMO - they bent, but they delivered.

You're right, they totally got to their game and ground bitches down.

 

[ColePens]

Welp definitely agree to disagree with you. As per usual. I will stand by the fact that I think our defense has been vastly underrated in the Cup run. And maybe people don't realize HOW difficult it is to play a level higher than you are expected. Everyone had to do it last year on the d-core. It's amazing. That should have been a slam dunk excuse to lose. And they didn't. They bent. They did not break. Hainsey was brought in to be a #6 and ends up having to play top d minutes. That's not easy. It puts everyone in a tough situation. I don't think it gets enough credit.

 

[TrudeauG]

Niemi could've made a few saves to make it closer. He's not nearly as good as Henrik Lundqvist at the butterfly. Maybe he should go do soccer.
We'll catch Tampa in their beanies during the winter classic, and then boy..

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Last year Maatta got ripped because he was struggling badly, and rightfully so. He went through more set backs than most people go through in their lives. Shoulder surgeries, mumps, cancer, broken hand... you name it. He went through it. That's why many people here were patient and wanted to see how he came out of it. Some were very impatient, as you see everyday here, and wanted him traded. The organization believed in him because they knew the kid's dedication was top notch.

The criticism became over the top and excessive so I wouldn't say rightfully so. It's not uncommon but it went stupidly bad. He wasn't his best and there were obvious problems but reading this board or other Pens talk would make it look like he was barely an NHL player.

As for Dumo - he was a freaking beast in the playoffs. Dominant. Played out of his mind and played like a #1. He was fantastic. He was fantastic in both Cup runs. That's why he gets a lot of cushion before he gets bashed, even though many posters are calling out his poor play.

Nah, if he'd been dominant and playing like a #1 their cup run would have been a lot prettier, tbh. He was very good for the most part but that D group spent most of its time on the verge of disaster because there wasn't a dominant D playing like a #1. Maybe you argue he was the most consistent but they got extremely lucky that so many D found something at the right time.

 

[PensandCaps]

Dumo had to carry Scuderi 2.0. all playoffs. He was really good all playoff run. Not 2015-16 good but still very good.

 

[billybudd]

The Point (?) goal where he roofed it in tight was impressive, but simultaneously terrible on Niemi's part. I don't know how the heck Niemi leaves a rebound like that on that type of shot (Point's first shot) or why he'd leave it just laying there, instead of poking it out of danger. Zatkoff doesn't give up that goal. I don't know if late stage Brent Johnston even gets scored on there.

Should've claimed Pickard off waivers.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You guys get to take our anger out on a very bad Oilers team next game so I wouldn't worry. If you put Niemi out against us we will find a way to give him a 0.940 save % no matter how many shots we take.

 

[Whakahere]

watching the game now on a replay stream. Lets see how long until i stop watching this tire fire?

edit: Crosby really screwed up to start the game and the first goal was a softie. This was a captain f***ing up the team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You guys get to take our anger out on a very bad Oilers team next game so I wouldn't worry. If you put Niemi out against us we will find a way to give him a 0.940 save % no matter how many shots we take.

Usually the opposite happens. Struggling team who can't score is coming to town? Pens will snap that slump for them. Oilers probably put up a 5-spot on the Pens.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Usually the opposite happens. Struggling team who can't score is coming to town? Pens will snap that slump for them. Oilers probably put up a 5-spot on the Pens.

We have 13 goals this season. There is zero chance we score 5 on you guys. 3 would be a miracle.

 

[EightyOne]

The criticism became over the top and excessive so I wouldn't say rightfully so. It's not uncommon but it went stupidly bad. He wasn't his best and there were obvious problems but reading this board or other Pens talk would make it look like he was barely an NHL player.




Nah, if he'd been dominant and playing like a #1 their cup run would have been a lot prettier, tbh. He was very good for the most part but that D group spent most of its time on the verge of disaster because there wasn't a dominant D playing like a #1. Maybe you argue he was the most consistent but they got extremely lucky that so many D found something at the right time.

Lol. Imagine HFPens if #66 were still playing a lazy cherry pick game..or scoring was dropping off cause his back/hip flexors were flaring up.

Probably try to trade proposal him for Pavel Bure and a 3rd. Lol. This place is insane at times.

 

[ColePens]

The criticism became over the top and excessive so I wouldn't say rightfully so. It's not uncommon but it went stupidly bad. He wasn't his best and there were obvious problems but reading this board or other Pens talk would make it look like he was barely an NHL player.




Nah, if he'd been dominant and playing like a #1 their cup run would have been a lot prettier, tbh. He was very good for the most part but that D group spent most of its time on the verge of disaster because there wasn't a dominant D playing like a #1. Maybe you argue he was the most consistent but they got extremely lucky that so many D found something at the right time.

So I already have said many of times I agree the Maatta hate was a bit much. I was one who wanted to see how he could show up with a healthy offseason. He's showing us. Everyone talks about this kid's work ethic. To me, his turnaround is not shocking.

What the f*** is luck? We didn't get lucky. We won the Cup. I think teams deserve their luck along the way. We won the Cup and shut out Nashville in the final 2 games. When is that defense going to get it's due credit? Heck - the fact they took down Washington, which I question if they even had a legit scoring chance in Game 7.. There were plenty of games where they bent, but man that defense stepped up, led by Dumo/Schultz/Cole when we needed it.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

So I already have said many of times I agree the Maatta hate was a bit much. I was one who wanted to see how he could show up with a healthy offseason. He's showing us. Everyone talks about this kid's work ethic. To me, his turnaround is not shocking.

What the **** is luck? We didn't get lucky. We won the Cup. I think teams deserve their luck along the way. We won the Cup and shut out Nashville in the final 2 games. When is that defense going to get it's due credit? Heck - the fact they took down Washington, which I question if they even had a legit scoring chance in Game 7.. There were plenty of games where they bent, but man that defense stepped up, led by Dumo/Schultz/Cole when we needed it.

A good sign with Maatta was how much of an anomaly those 55 games were offensively. There was some weird shit going on there that we hadn't seen anything like from him before. There's skill and work ethic and there's something just not making sense.

Luck always comes into winning the cup any way you want to define it. The defense deserves more credit than they got, notably for their ability to not get scored on and not collapsing, but they still got lucky that the individual players ebbed and flowed in sync enough to get it done. You just listing three players there says it and that ignores Maatta's Ottawa series (and partially righting the ship) and Daley finding a good game or two that we hadn't seen from him in a year after Schultz went down. They were on the edge a lot of the time and there's credit to be given for holding up but there's luck too. Murray getting healthy when he did was lucky, not being able to make a shattenkirk trade, Johansen balancing out the Letang injury was luck or not being able to trade for Duchene before finding out about Letang was luck. There was luck in 2016 as well but they got really lucky with a D finding something every time they really needed it last season.

Moving the puck was the real problem with the D and it made for particularly ugly hockey. So was dimished offrnsive threat from the D. The mental toughness and actual defensive play were there, and so was the team defensive play to support the backend. They got a lot of help from goaltending but were also really good with clearing the rebounds against Columbus and keeping things to the outside.

 

[larueskee]

-KIRK complaining about Letang all the time.

The reality is that Letang is now minus 9 on the young season and his 4 powerplay points mean little when he is always digging the puck out of his own net at even strength. The minus 9 projects to a minus 82 on the season. Oh and just a reminder that the season is nearly at 10% played.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You're right, they totally got to their game and ground *****es down.

You're really bad at the snarky comeback. You should not do that. Or at least try to be a little less "that was cool and good 3 years ago". Topicality is key, my dude.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Last year Maatta got ripped because he was struggling badly, and rightfully so. He went through more set backs than most people go through in their lives. Shoulder surgeries, mumps, cancer, broken hand... you name it. He went through it. That's why many people here were patient and wanted to see how he came out of it. Some were very impatient, as you see everyday here, and wanted him traded. The organization believed in him because they knew the kid's dedication was top notch.

As for Dumo - he was a freaking beast in the playoffs. Dominant. Played out of his mind and played like a #1. He was fantastic. He was fantastic in both Cup runs. That's why he gets a lot of cushion before he gets bashed, even though many posters are calling out his poor play.

I don't think Dumoulin has ever played one game at a #1D level, let alone an entire playoffs.

 

[PensandCaps]

I don't think Dumoulin has ever played one game at a #1D level, let alone an entire playoffs.

What....

 

[PensandCaps]

The reality is that Letang is now minus 9 on the young season and his 4 powerplay points mean little when he is always digging the puck out of his own net at even strength. The minus 9 projects to a minus 82 on the season. Oh and just a reminder that the season is nearly at 10% played.

Plus minus means nothing.

He was a -27 the first month of 2015. And evything turned out great for him that year. Nearly a point per game that year(67 in 71 games)and was a beast defensively down the stretch and in the playoffs. Oh and scored the cup clinching goal.....but yes let's overreact to a poor start when he's coming off a major injury. He's had a much much worse start in 2015 and it ended up being his best year ever! So calm down.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

If anyone thought that Letang was going to be great quickly they were always going to be sorely mistaken. As far as his +/- goes.

Chicago: -5
Tampa 2nd game: -3

Letang isn't at his best, I hate him on PP1 and I don't think he should be getting the minutes he is. +/- is still a flawed stat and there's a smalll sample size.

 

[ColePens]

I don't think Dumoulin has ever played one game at a #1D level, let alone an entire playoffs.

I can say officially Dumo is insanely underrated then. Defense is the game I studied and played my entire life. The stuff he does out there may go completely unnoticed or people only look at statlines because EK/Burns/etc. make that the new style of defense. Dumo was so vital for our defense.

Oh well. If people can't see the importance of #8, I won't change your opinion. I'll just agree to disagree. I think he's a great player for this team and was insanely important for our Cup run.

 

[ColePens]

As for Letang, I think his 5 on 5 game is finding it's groove. He's great in transition. He doesn't fit on the PP at all. Oh well. I like his progression. I think he's knocking rust off each game and looks good. You have to have a tad bit of patience for Tangers.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

You're really bad at the snarky comeback. You should not do that. Or at least try to be a little less "that was cool and good 3 years ago". Topicality is key, my dude.

It's the old "Well, I'm saying that you said THIS, and it's snappy enough and I'm well-known enough that people are going to remember your words as what I've twisted them into, instead of what you actually said. So now you have to defend what my comeback implies you said, instead of what you actually did."

 

[Shady Machine]

It's totally deflating.

Yup. It's the same argument many posters made when Fleury had his shitty playoff runs. Yeah team defense sucked, but the team totally lost confidence in their goalie so they overcompensated in other areas and just plain gave up other times.

This is that times a million. Niemi just sucks. It's a bummer too because I thought in a lesser role and change of scenery he could rebound to at least be a mediocre back up. So far looks like I was wrong