Leon Draisaitl or Johnny Gaudreau?

[Garthinater]

Its not as simple as saying "away from Connor" and leaving it at that. Maybe try comparing their actual line mates? Its funny that you need to separate Leon from his teams top players to try to make a case, and fail. Then continue on without making the same comparisons for little Johnny.

Who was Johnny playing with when he got swept out of the playoffs in 4 games with a -7 and 2 points again? Leon wasn't playing most of the time with Connor getting 16 points in 13 games, that's a fact.

How am I the one who failed? Lol I brought a bunch of stats showing drai wasn't the same player away from mcd. You proceeded to post excuses "it's not as simple as saying away from Connor", or "why don't you compare their linemates". The fact is drai didn't perform very well away from the best hockey player in the world. I find it funny though you bring up linemates, because Drai had most likely the best possible linemate for over half the season. But when given lesser linemates he couldn't perform nearly as well.

Yes he had an impressive playoffs but like I said, he scored over 32% of his shots during the second series. Not likely to happen again.

What's so funny about "...that you need to separate Leon from his teams top players to try to make a case...". Isn't Drai likely to play on his own line this season, away from Connor? If true then it makes sense to see what his stats are like without riding shotgun with mcd.

Drai is a good player and Edmonton is lucky to have him but you've seriously overrated him this off season.

 

[tony d]

I went with Leon.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Draisaitl fan. I've been saying since day 1 that he was the best player from 2014 draft, which is looking more and more likely. But raw point totals don't tell the whole story here for obvious reasons.

Considering that just about everything that could go wrong did go wrong for Gaudreau last season and he still put up a 70 point pace and led his team in scoring (despite missing 10 games) tells you the level of player he is.

Gaudreau's 22 year old season (on a bottom feeding team) was much better than what we saw from Draisaitl last year, and he's a better player now than he was then.

I can't even imagine what Gaudreau's numbers would look like alongside McDavid for one half the year, and playing against 2nd pairing defenseman for the other half.

That's not a slight against Draisaitl, who is an elite young player. But he is just not able to generate offense like Gaudreau.

 

[Worraps]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Draisaitl fan. I've been saying since day 1 that he was the best player from 2014 draft, which is looking more and more likely. But raw point totals don't tell the whole story here for obvious reasons.

Considering that just about everything that could go wrong did go wrong for Gaudreau last season and he still put up a 70 point pace and led his team in scoring (despite missing 10 games) tells you the level of player he is.

Gaudreau's 22 year old season (on a bottom feeding team) was much better than what we saw from Draisaitl last year, and he's a better player now than he was then.

I can't even imagine what Gaudreau's numbers would look like alongside McDavid for one-half the year, and playing against 2nd pairing defenseman for the other half.

That's not a slight against Draisaitl, who is an elite young player. But he is just not able to generate offense like Gaudreau.

I think Gaudreau is being underrated in this thread but I also think it's a mistake to assume he'd put up a lot of points with McDavid.

If Taylor Hall proved anything it's that wanting the puck on your stick a lot is not conducive to playing with Connor McDavid.

Draisaitl thrived with him by deferring to him on the rush and using his size and strength to cycle and to get into position to receive a pass. Gaudreau isn't well suited for that.

If I had to choose a Flame who could thrive with McDavid, it would be Monahan.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think Gaudreau is being underrated in this thread but I also think it's a mistake to assume he'd put up a lot of points with McDavid.

If Taylor Hall proved anything it's that wanting the puck on your stick a lot is not conducive to playing with Connor McDavid.

Draisaitl thrived with him by deferring to him on the rush and using his size and strength to cycle and to get into position to receive a pass. Gaudreau isn't well suited for that.

If I had to choose a Flame who could thrive with McDavid, it would be Monahan.

I agree with you. Gaudreau is much more of a play driver, and sets up plays. A lot like McDavid in that regard. The two wouldn't be such a great fit together.

McDavid feeding Monahan probably turns him into a 40 goal scorer.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think Gaudreau is being underrated in this thread but I also think it's a mistake to assume he'd put up a lot of points with McDavid.

If Taylor Hall proved anything it's that wanting the puck on your stick a lot is not conducive to playing with Connor McDavid.

Draisaitl thrived with him by deferring to him on the rush and using his size and strength to cycle and to get into position to receive a pass. Gaudreau isn't well suited for that.

If I had to choose a Flame who could thrive with McDavid, it would be Monahan.

Gaudreau can play with anyone. He's not at all like Hall. In fact, I'd say his best attribute is his IQ without the puck and ability to find and finish loose pucks around the net. When he's able to play with guys that can carry the puck he really shines. Which is one of the reasons he's so dominant in international tournaments, where the level of play is higher and he's got better players to play with. If you followed his career you'd find that he scored mostly garbage goals around the net during his time at BC and in international tournaments. Obviously he's more than capable of making highlight reel plays, but the lion share of his scoring has always due to his ability to evade detection and anticipate around the net.

Unfortunately, Calgary lacks severely in the puck carrying department (Backlund is the only other Flame who can consistently carry the mail), so when he's out there the puck doesn't get to the net too often unless he's had something to do with it. That makes it tough for him to do his thing.

While Gaudreau is quite adept at being the primary puck carrier, he's not an ideal option if opponents know he's the only guy who can do it because of his size. He can be swarmed and pushed off the puck when he's the obvious danger. But given another option to split the attention of defenders and he is insanely dangerous.

 

[Fugazy]

Draisaitl.

 

[Skobel24]

I think Gaudreau is being underrated in this thread but I also think it's a mistake to assume he'd put up a lot of points with McDavid.

If Taylor Hall proved anything it's that wanting the puck on your stick a lot is not conducive to playing with Connor McDavid.

Draisaitl thrived with him by deferring to him on the rush and using his size and strength to cycle and to get into position to receive a pass. Gaudreau isn't well suited for that.

If I had to choose a Flame who could thrive with McDavid, it would be Monahan.

Agreed. Majority of HF thought Kessel would explode on the wing of Crosby, but it didn't happen.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

How am I the one who failed? Lol I brought a bunch of stats showing drai wasn't the same player away from mcd. You proceeded to post excuses "it's not as simple as saying away from Connor", or "why don't you compare their linemates". The fact is drai didn't perform very well away from the best hockey player in the world. I find it funny though you bring up linemates, because Drai had most likely the best possible linemate for over half the season. But when given lesser linemates he couldn't perform nearly as well.

Yes he had an impressive playoffs but like I said, he scored over 32% of his shots during the second series. Not likely to happen again.

What's so funny about "...that you need to separate Leon from his teams top players to try to make a case...". Isn't Drai likely to play on his own line this season, away from Connor? If true then it makes sense to see what his stats are like without riding shotgun with mcd.

Drai is a good player and Edmonton is lucky to have him but you've seriously overrated him this off season.

Provided "stats" from a website that doesn't exist anymore for any reference. And then completely ignore Johnny's lack of playoff performance and Draisaitls exceptional playoff performance (when it counts) away from Connor. I'd love to see little Johnny's stats playing with what Draisaitl had to to work with on the Oilers 2nd/3rd line. Face it Gaudreau wilts like a dying flower come playoffs, whereas Draisaitl excels. I guess its not their fault one of them is built like a malnourished child and the other a man.

 

[Mobiandi]

Face it Gaudreau wilts like a dying flower come playoffs, whereas Draisaitl excels. I guess its not their fault one of them is built like a malnourished child and the other a man.

Oh boy I wonder what you think of McDavid's output in the playoffs if Gaudreau's is horrible

 

[Haatley]

Provided "stats" from a website that doesn't exist anymore for any reference. And then completely ignore Johnny's lack of playoff performance and Draisaitls exceptional playoff performance (when it counts) away from Connor. I'd love to see little Johnny's stats playing with what Draisaitl had to to work with on the Oilers 2nd/3rd line. Face it Gaudreau wilts like a dying flower come playoffs, whereas Draisaitl excels. I guess its not their fault one of them is built like a malnourished child and the other a man.

You know... Gaudreau's career playoff PPG is higher than Leon's career regular season PPG.... right?

 

[Sheppy]

Draisaitl and yeah, not close for me.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Gaudreau is certainly flashier, more of a highlight reel player. I think he is more likely to score more points next year as well. People don't remember that part of why he had a down year was that he missed training camp. He won't have that this year. But I like Leon's all around game more, and I think it more than makes up for Johnny's edge in quickness/craftiness/creativity.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Oh boy I wonder what you think of McDavid's output in the playoffs if Gaudreau's is horrible

Well he was a +3 with 9 points in 13 games, certainly looks like he contributed and wasn't a liability whilst being the focus of the other teams top shut down players. I expect he will build off that. Can't say the same for lil Johnny, he got worse.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I don't think it's particularly close.

Draisaitl

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

You know... Gaudreau's career playoff PPG is higher than Leon's career regular season PPG.... right?

Your point is what?

Its more likely to have a higher PPG when you play 15 games vs 191 games? I'm shocked!

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Oh boy I wonder what you think of McDavid's output in the playoffs if Gaudreau's is horrible

I was very unimpressed by McDavid's playoffs but it's pretty clear he's way ahead of Gaudreau still

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

HF logic:

1. Monahan is a product of Gaudreau; Monahan isn't that good even though he's like 15th in scoring for C over the last 3 years.

2. Draisatl is not a product of McDavid; in fact he AINEC better.

3. Monahan last 3 years:
85 G, 98 A 183 P
Last 2 years: 54 G, 67 A 121 points


Draisatl last 2 years. One was McDavud the best offensive player in the game. 1 is with Hall who won a poll against Gaudreau recently...
48 G 80 A 128 points 154 games.

Gaudreau
48 G 91 A 139 points 151 games

So one guy plays 1/2 the time with the best offensive player in the league, sees his numbers rise during that year while still being second wheel (not even to a level which Gaudreau has already attained playing with someone, who according to HF, isn't that good.) and yet he's better than Gaudreau.

It makes zero sense. There is never any logical consistence on this site.

I guess the second wheel principle only applies to Monahan and not Draisatl

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well he was a +3 with 9 points in 13 games, certainly looks like he contributed and wasn't a liability whilst being the focus of the other teams top shut down players. I expect he will build off that. Can't say the same for lil Johnny, he got worse.

+/- is being used over a 4 game sample size folks.

Somebody must be losing an argument.

 

[MessierII]

HF logic:

1. Monahan is a product of Gaudreau; Monahan isn't that good even though he's like 15th in scoring for C over the last 3 years.

2. Draisatl is not a product of McDavid; in fact he AINEC better.

3. Monahan last 3 years:
85 G, 98 A 183 P
Last 2 years: 54 G, 67 A 121 points


Draisatl last 2 years. One was McDavud the best offensive player in the game. 1 is with Hall who won a poll against Gaudreau recently...
48 G 80 A 128 points 154 games.

Gaudreau
48 G 91 A 139 points 151 games

So one guy plays 1/2 the time with the best offensive player in the league, sees his numbers rise during that year while still being second wheel (not even to a level which Gaudreau has already attained playing with someone, who according to HF, isn't that good.) and yet he's better than Gaudreau.

It makes zero sense. There is never any logical consistence on this site.

I guess the second wheel principle only applies to Monahan and not Draisatl

Even if you consider Johnny a slightly better offensive player Leon is still more valuable. He's bigger, younger, can play centre or right wing effectively, wins draws, better defensively.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Leon ...

 

[Connor]

How is this even a contest?

If the questions was posted as, "Your a GM and you're expansion drafting your team and Draisaitl and Gaudreau are both left unprotected on the same team, you take the contact and the player. Who do you take?"

Draisaitl every time.

 

[McVespa99]

I found the stats but I think it's you who might want to look at them again.

"From Puckalytics, and of course all numbers are 5v5: When together the Oilers score 3.67 G/60, while giving up 2.5 G/60 in ~670 minutes.

Connor separate from Leon: The Oilers score 3.38 G/60 while giving up 1.78 in ~640 minutes. For whatever reason Connor is rocking a higher on ice sv% which would account for the dramatically lower GA figure.

Leon away from Connor. 2.28 G/60, 2.88 G/60, in ~500 minutes."


The fact Oilers fans are saying "not close" when comparing a player with these kinds of numbers to Johnny is absurd.

In last year's playoffs Drai had 3 points in the first series (6 games). He then got 13 points in 7 games, 9 coming in 2 games. Those numbers are so unsustainable it's not even funny. Or do you think Leon will shoot 27% consistently?

Like I said, I could be wrong. But seems really early to be considering Drai better then most of the players he's been compared to this off season, including gaudreau

That is because the poll does not ask who's numbers look better. It asks who is the better hockey player.
And just so you know Drai was seriously ill during the first series. As soon as he got well he was dominant. So even if you take away a few points in the second series he likely would have had more in the first if not ill which would work out pretty much the same totals wise.

 

[Calgareee]

That is because the poll does not ask who's numbers look better. It asks who is the better hockey player.
And just so you know Drai was seriously ill during the first series. As soon as he got well he was dominant. So even if you take away a few points in the second series he likely would have had more in the first if not ill which would work out pretty much the same totals wise.

And Johnny played a good chunk of last season after coming back very early from a broken hand. I'm sure he would have scored more points without that oven mitt he had to wear. What's your point?

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

+/- is being used over a 4 game sample size folks.

Somebody must be losing an argument.

Looks like someone is sore about losing this poll, folks.

What other stats would you like to see? Giveaways/takeaways? Gaudreau gives away the puck twice as much as he takes it away. Faceoffs? Lol.
CF%? FF%? Defensive zone starts? Advantage Draisaitl.
Goals created? Goals per game? Points per game? Advantage Draisaitl.
Offensive point shares? Draisaitl. Defensive point shares? Draisaitl.
Hits? Draisaitl. Shot blocks? Draisaitl.

Be sore bra.