SoupNazi
Serenity now. Insanity later.
- Feb 6, 2010
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If you don't think those two are good wingers, I'm not sure what you would think are good wingers. Ovechkin?
Confirmed with Link: Legwand to Wings for Eaves, Jarnkrok and a cond. 3rd (2nd if we make the playoffs)
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If you don't think those two are good wingers, I'm not sure what you would think are good wingers. Ovechkin?
I think everyone expected Kuznetsov to be physical because he was so big, but it was never his game to go out and slam people. I think golubovski has similar expectations that he never lived up to, either. I don't think Kuznetsov was expected to be a big producer, but he had the size and tools to be a minute eater who could move the puck up ice. Maybe Ericsson would be a good comparison - big D, strong in his own zone, good at moving the puck up. He never put it together, though. I don't remember him being looked at as a Bob Rouse/Aaron Ward type, though.
Anyway, yeah.
I'm hoping/expecting for some moves now, too, just to bring in a pick or two and clear out the log jam. I'm really not thrilled with the idea of now losing some guys to waivers rather than getting something for them.
People comparing this to the Quincey trade...the Quincey trade was MUCH better than this.
Man, it's getting harder to defend KH these days. The injury bug bit us this year, it sucks...just call up the young guys and deal. We still had a decent shot at the playoffs without our 4 starting centers (lol
) because of how capable the young guys have been + Franzen stepping up.
This just reeks of desperation. What is the end goal? When did this organization become a "make the playoffs is our goal" team? We aren't the ****ing Panthers. Even if we resign the guy...then we have too many centers on the team and not enough center prospects. Just hurts my brain.
Man, it's getting harder to defend KH these days. The injury bug bit us this year, it sucks...just call up the young guys and deal. We still had a decent shot at the playoffs without our 4 starting centers (lol
) because of how capable the young guys have been + Franzen stepping up.This just reeks of desperation. What is the end goal? When did this organization become a "make the playoffs is our goal" team? We aren't the ****ing Panthers. Even if we resign the guy...then we have too many centers on the team and not enough center prospects. Just hurts my brain.
Big Poppa Puck
HF's Villain
Like I said before, while I don't like trading Jarnkrok on the surface, something HAD to change in the past year that you go from him being a deal breaker in deals for JayBo, Iginla and others (Nash? although CBJ was never trading him here) to trading him for a rental David Legwand.
dtones520
Registered User
And what, realistically, was Jarnkroks highest conceivable ceiling? Given his play at all levels, so far, it's a 2nd line center, who won't be ready for 2-3 seasons.
RedWingsForPresident
Registered User
I might be able to handle that if we had not thrown in a 2nd(3rd) pick as well. On the Preds board apparently Poile says he has no idea where the Sweden rumors are coming from, CJ himself is quoted saying he doesn't know where that is coming from and that he is under contract for next year.
If we had moved him as part of pa package for a top pairing D I would be okay, but for a UFA that we would likely have an edge in signing anyway on July 1 (if KH wanted the "hockey" deal) makes no sense.
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Dexter Colt
Registered User
I think that's reasonable. I was thinking something like a 2-3C who needs those 2-3 years. If we consider that he'll be that at best, I don't think the Legwand trade was too bad.
I admit I'm too lazy to dig up quotes, but some of the stuff thrown around on HF have made it seem like he was a surefire elite center, which I won't buy for a second.
In any case, more time is needed to see how this thing goes. Right now it's a decent trade. If Järnkrok fails to become that 2-3C or exceeds that expectation, I'll reconsider. But right now I'd just chill out, sit back and watch.
hyduK
Registered User
- Feb 21, 2009
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People comparing this to the Quincey trade...the Quincey trade was MUCH better than this.
Man, it's getting harder to defend KH these days. The injury bug bit us this year, it sucks...just call up the young guys and deal. We still had a decent shot at the playoffs without our 4 starting centers (lol
This just reeks of desperation. What is the end goal? When did this organization become a "make the playoffs is our goal" team? We aren't the ****ing Panthers. Even if we resign the guy...then we have too many centers on the team and not enough center prospects. Just hurts my brain.
I'm a little torn on the make the playoffs part.
It really depends on the actuality of the injury situation, which I'd hope the team has a lot more insight into than us.
Datsyuk is out for 3 weeks, at least.
Helm is day-to-day
Zetterberg is probably out until at least the second round.
Weiss, well who the hell knows what's going on there...
That being said, if these guys come back as projected (and are actually healthy, not just playing for the sake of it) then making the playoffs can easily turn into making a run in the playoffs.
I'm gonna make the assumption that Helm can come back within a few games (this could be completely wrong), and Datsyuk is back by April. If that's the case, with our upcoming schedule we SHOULD be able to get into the playoffs. As long as there's no more crazy injuries, and the kids produce at a decent pace.
Once we're in the playoffs there's no team in the East that completely outclasses us. Even Boston and Pittsburgh are winnable series without Zetterberg.
So basically I'm really hoping that this is Hollands thought process when he makes the trade...if he makes the trade knowing that we're not gonna be healthy at any point this year then it was a horrible one though.
So does datsyuk double shift and play 40+ minutes a game against bergeron + kreichi and crosby + malkin? Without Z either of those teams destroys us due to there second lines running roughshed over us.
Don't get me wrong I like Sheahan. But he is not ready for either malkin or kreichi in line matching. Maybe in 2-3 years he and his linemates will be able to pair up to either of those teams specific lines but come on try to be realistic with the statements you make.
But he is under contract to Detroit for another year. If the same issues were apparent for a year from now that is a different story.
In the meantime we should have let the "over-riping" process play out, or moved him as part of a package that the team is in desperate need of long term - a top pairing Defenseman.
We moved him, AND a 2/3 pick for a hometown rental in a season that is going nowhere.
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ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
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hyduK
Registered User
- Feb 21, 2009
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I'd imagine they'd be matching Weiss/Legwand against those guys as opposed to Sheahan.
Never said it's gonna be easy, but I still think it's winnable. Pittsburgh has a defense that's in worse shape than ours right now and our 3/4 lines would match up very well against either of those teams.
Maybe I'm just trying too hard to be optimistic. Ideally we somehow found a way to sneak into the 3 spot in the division...which I think if we were a bit healthier would be possible (Toronto has a tough schedule, Montreal is without Price) but that's probably a pipe dream at this point.
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I agree, but we would likely have an inside track to sign him as a UFA. I have no issue with Legwand...it is just the price we paid.
We squandered an asset(s) that could be used to fix what really needs fixing.
ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
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Short term? Yes, I think the team is better with Legwand than without.
Long term? I don't really know. If Jarnkrok projects to be what people expected of him here, then no. If not, then it would all depend on what Legwand brings to the table and how Holland addresses the center log-jam we currently have.
Big Poppa Puck
HF's Villain
I can't believe people actually want us to miss the playoffs. I'd rather go in as the 8th seed and get swept than finish 9th or 10th and pick in the teens. It's too late to tank.
It'd be different if we could fall into the Top 5 in the draft
It'd be different if we could fall into the Top 5 in the draft
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Get out of here with your logic.
I mean if the Wings lose their next 8 games, I will start looking for as high as we can draft, or what is basically how I end every season as a Lions fan, once you're out and really out then fine go for it. But the Wings are unlikely to fall out to the degree that should be happening.
That said I was not afraid if they didn't make a move and we suffered down the stretch because of it. Understand them not thinking this way, we can overlook it but the 8-10 million each round represents does mean a lot even to a team with a rich owner.
ShanahanMan
Registered User
The more I read, the more depressed I get. Red wings Central had excerpts rating Jarnkrok our best prospect and being the closest thing to our next Zetterberg. Just can't wrap my head around this. http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/calle-jarnkrok/
Have a strong feeling the guy will crack the Nashville lineup next year and Holland will have to do tons of back peddling.
Have a strong feeling the guy will crack the Nashville lineup next year and Holland will have to do tons of back peddling.
hyduK
Registered User
- Feb 21, 2009
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People had the same attitude last year.
Changed quite a bit when we beat Anaheim and were up 3-1 on Chicago.
If he had an issue with staying in GR, I don't think they go away in a year of playing more in GR, and I don't think his value goes up in a year with them.
Also, we've been burned twice before by Swedes bolting from GR to play back home. Both had contracts with us, and both forced their way back across the pond. If Jarnkrok decided to do that, even over the summer and just not return, we wouldn't get anything for him in a trade.
I'm not thrilled with the return. I had been pushing to give Jarnkrok a call-up when we learned Datsyuk and Helm would be out, so I was fine giving him a shot this year. At the same time, I like Legwand. And I respect the Wings for not just throwing in the towel for the season. Within reach of a playoff spot, I think that would have been wrong.
I wish we had gotten more for him, but there's the possibility Jarnkrok just didn't have the value we thought he did.
I was as shocked as anybody when it was confirmed that Jarnkrok was the mystery prospect going the other way. I must have hit refresh 1,000 times waiting for confirmation.
Now I hope he doesn't turn into a Filppula-level player, like I had hoped he would.
The trade itself isn't terrible because it's Holland's job to get this team into the playoffs again, and with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm, and Weiss all on the shelf adding a centre like Legwand made the most sense. He had to give up something. I like Legwand's game and in any other situation I would be happy they're adding a vet like that to the lineup for the stretch drive.
Jarnkrok appeared to be finally heating up and adjusting to NA hockey. It's too bad this didn't happen sooner because then maybe he'd get a call up instead of constantly seeing Glendening in the lineup and then Jarnkrok would see a light at the end of the tunnel and management could see if he's ready for NHL action, or at least see how close he was. I wouldn't have minded seeing him get a shot in a game over Andersson or the 11 games Emmerton played in this season. None of those 3 bring that much to the team that it's not at least worth seeing if Jarnkrok could bring more.
Now I hope he doesn't turn into a Filppula-level player, like I had hoped he would.
The trade itself isn't terrible because it's Holland's job to get this team into the playoffs again, and with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm, and Weiss all on the shelf adding a centre like Legwand made the most sense. He had to give up something. I like Legwand's game and in any other situation I would be happy they're adding a vet like that to the lineup for the stretch drive.
Jarnkrok appeared to be finally heating up and adjusting to NA hockey. It's too bad this didn't happen sooner because then maybe he'd get a call up instead of constantly seeing Glendening in the lineup and then Jarnkrok would see a light at the end of the tunnel and management could see if he's ready for NHL action, or at least see how close he was. I wouldn't have minded seeing him get a shot in a game over Andersson or the 11 games Emmerton played in this season. None of those 3 bring that much to the team that it's not at least worth seeing if Jarnkrok could bring more.
BinCookin
Registered User
I think the main reason I am disappointed is the cost for every other FA was amazingly cheap this deadline.
I mean Vanek was acquired for what? A 2nd round pick (Conditional) and a player who was a 2nd round pick in 2012. Presumably of lower value than Jarnkrok (a former 2nd round pick in 2010 - thus likely closer to an NHL player than collberg). Matt Moulson was acquired for 2 2nd round picks.
If we make the playoffs. Our deal: 2nd round pick; Jarnkrok (+ A waived player (meaningless))
Is a better offer than those other two deals.
Now Legwand is a centre, while the others are wingers. Holland also thinks he got better value because Legwand is from the area, and thus resigning him is doable.
I suppose under that train of thinking, Legwand is more valuable than the other 2, and thus commanded slightly more in cost.
Here is my problem with the trade:
Lets be honest, if we make the playoffs or don't make the playoffs this year…. Does anyone really care? I mean yes we get in… but with our injury situation… this entire year is a write off. If Holland is picking up a Center to replace all our injured centres… The player is only valuable while we are injured. What happens when we are Healthy? What is our ideal line up? Are we trying to compete NOW? or are we rebuilding? I think Holland is trying to do both a little. Trying to improve the team, while keeping MOST of the youth. Agree with that or not. We are not really in Buffalo/Edmonton positions, and I am not sure If I would want to be. Jarnkrok had been progressing slowly. His recent 19pts in 16 games is probably the only reason Nashville even thought he still had promise. Its really hard to say how bad this deal will be, because it completely hinges on Jarnkrok reaching or missing his potential. Generally I feel Legwand could be had for less. And even if Nashville said "screw you, we will keep him then". Then we sign him next year, the same way we would have now?
Theoretical Healthy Lineup Next year:
Remove: Bert, Cleary, Sammy, Eaves:
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Alfie (I do not think he will retire just yet)
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist (assuming Weiss impresses rest of the year)
Tatar-Legwand-Abdelkader
Helm-Sheahan-Jurco
Andersson?, Miller, Glendenning?
Is that enough youth? How long would it take for Jarnkrok to make our roster… Even if we lose Legwand? Either way, I think trading Jarnkrok for an Established D man would have been a better move. I wouldn't call this a ludicrous trade, but I think we lost it.
I mean Vanek was acquired for what? A 2nd round pick (Conditional) and a player who was a 2nd round pick in 2012. Presumably of lower value than Jarnkrok (a former 2nd round pick in 2010 - thus likely closer to an NHL player than collberg). Matt Moulson was acquired for 2 2nd round picks.
If we make the playoffs. Our deal: 2nd round pick; Jarnkrok (+ A waived player (meaningless))
Is a better offer than those other two deals.
Now Legwand is a centre, while the others are wingers. Holland also thinks he got better value because Legwand is from the area, and thus resigning him is doable.
I suppose under that train of thinking, Legwand is more valuable than the other 2, and thus commanded slightly more in cost.
Here is my problem with the trade:
Lets be honest, if we make the playoffs or don't make the playoffs this year…. Does anyone really care? I mean yes we get in… but with our injury situation… this entire year is a write off. If Holland is picking up a Center to replace all our injured centres… The player is only valuable while we are injured. What happens when we are Healthy? What is our ideal line up? Are we trying to compete NOW? or are we rebuilding? I think Holland is trying to do both a little. Trying to improve the team, while keeping MOST of the youth. Agree with that or not. We are not really in Buffalo/Edmonton positions, and I am not sure If I would want to be. Jarnkrok had been progressing slowly. His recent 19pts in 16 games is probably the only reason Nashville even thought he still had promise. Its really hard to say how bad this deal will be, because it completely hinges on Jarnkrok reaching or missing his potential. Generally I feel Legwand could be had for less. And even if Nashville said "screw you, we will keep him then". Then we sign him next year, the same way we would have now?
Theoretical Healthy Lineup Next year:
Remove: Bert, Cleary, Sammy, Eaves:
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Alfie (I do not think he will retire just yet)
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist (assuming Weiss impresses rest of the year)
Tatar-Legwand-Abdelkader
Helm-Sheahan-Jurco
Andersson?, Miller, Glendenning?
Is that enough youth? How long would it take for Jarnkrok to make our roster… Even if we lose Legwand? Either way, I think trading Jarnkrok for an Established D man would have been a better move. I wouldn't call this a ludicrous trade, but I think we lost it.
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