Confirmed with Link: Legwand to Wings for Eaves, Jarnkrok and a cond. 3rd (2nd if we make the playoffs)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Boomhower

Registered User
Aug 23, 2003
5,169
1
Ontario
Visit site
I think Jaskin is a worse comparison than Schremp. We wouldn't have traded a Jaskin, just like we didn't trade a Jurco. I'm happy about the guys we didn't move, myself.

Only on HF....when news first leaked in this thread of Jarnkrok's departure it was Niklas Backstrom this and that... nobody took issue.

When Backstrom was 22 he had already been playing in the NHL for 3 years and averaging over a PPG. Jarnkrok is 22 and has tallied 39 points in 69 AHL games.

Fast forward and I compare him to Schremp and people are saying I have crossed the line?
 

The Zermanator

In Yzerman We Trust
Jan 21, 2013
3,396
1,207
Only on HF....when news first leaked in this thread of Jarnkrok's departure it was Niklas Backstrom this and that... nobody took issue.

When Backstrom was 22 he had already been playing in the NHL for 3 years and averaging over a PPG. Jarnkrok is 22 and has tallied 39 points in 69 AHL games.

Fast forward and I compare him to Schremp and people are saying I have crossed the line?

And when Datsyuk was 21-22 he put up 27 pts in 42 games in the Russian league. Not comparing Jarnkrok to Datsyuk, my point is not everyone has the same development curve.

Jarnkrok projects as a quality 2nd line centre who has a polished overall game. Maybe he turns into more than that, maybe he doesn't quite reach that. Either way, Wings gave up a quality 22 year old player today and received a quality 33 year old player..
 

downriverjake

Registered User
Jan 25, 2014
6
0
KH Wins Again

My guess is that Jarnkrok took note of the the way Tatar was left in GR after he seemed to show enough to warrant a fair shot at the RW roster. He maybe also notice how Nyquist was kept in GR when it looked like he deserved to be in Detroit. He could have concluded his chances to play in the NHL were better elsewhere, and privately said something like "play me or trade me". A lesser GM would have worked something out to keep Jarnkrok satisfied, but Holland saw it as an opportunity to dump the younger player in favor of a player well past his prime, which is his style and comfort zone. The result for was a strange sort of win-win situation: Jarnkrok got his trade and Holland got a veteran his old team didn't want. AND, he was able to use Jarnkrok as a cover for his umpteenth fleecing in the trade game. It is evident from reading this thread that Kenny succeeded brilliantly, with contributors taking the position that Jarnkrok was never any good anyway, and was behind players like Emmerton and Weiss in the RW pecking order, and that Kenny really got something for nothing. Amazing.
 

Hckytwn

Don't do it Kenny...
Jul 9, 2010
854
4
Seattle, WA
The face of the Nashville Predators just waived his NTC to come to Detroit. Do you really think the Wings will just drop him off the roster at the end of the year? I'm not saying the Wings owe him anything but I also don't think Legwand would have waived the NTC without some idea of what his options would be in the off-season.

Realistically he's going to want $5M +/- .25M for about 4 years... Sorry, but I'm really not jazzed about giving a 34 year old player with only above average skills that. Especially since it creates a massive log jam at center, which will further hurt our youth development.
 

dtones520

Registered User
Jun 10, 2008
3,097
0
Midland, MI
So after initially not being in favor of this move because of Jarnkrok, I'm actually more than fine with it now.

Let me start by saying that Jarnkrok has been my favorite prospect since watching him at the World Juniors a few years back. I thought he had a real smart hockey mind that can't be taught and his skating was a big positive at that time. To me, he looked like the player that we had always hoped Filppula would become (this was before Filppula's big 11-12 season and his current season.)
With that being said, Jarnkrok was never a Datsyuk/Zetterberg level player and the chances that he becomes one are beyond slim IMO. He had the ceiling of a very good 2-way 2nd line center in my mind, which is still very valuable. But let's face it, even reaching that potential is far from guaranteed at this point. I'm still hopeful that he becomes a solid NHLer but I'm not quite as high on him as I was when I first seen him as his skating has leveled off as he's played against better competition. We all still valued him so highly because he had the highest potential amongst are centers, which is obviously the weakness in our pool.

In comes Legwand, basically the player we hoped we were getting in Weiss. You know what you're getting from Legwand. I'm thinking it's very likely that he's here for longer than just this remaining season, which brings me to the main factor in not minding this move now:

(And let me also mention we didn't lose a 1st where we will almost certainly take a center this draft)

As much as we our encouraged by our youth, our biggest window of opportunity is likely within the next 2-3 years where Datsyuk and Zetterberg can still perform at a fairly high level. As much as I liked Jarnkrok, he wasn't ready to contribute at a level as high as Legwand will for the next 2-3 seasons. I think Holland seen Legwand as an obvious need for the rest of this season, while also really going for it in the next couple seasons.

Can anyone possibly deny that Legwand isn't an upgrade over Jarnkrok for this team right now and for the next couple years? Jarnkrok wasn't going to be a #1 center in my mind. We don't have to worry about center prospects for the next few years because we now have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm, Legwand, Weiss, Sheahan, and Andersson. This allows us to draft a center high this year and develop him for when these players are on their way out. Additionally, the influx of centers potentially allows us to move players (Helm, Sheahan, Tatar) for a legit top 3 defencemen, which you and I know is probably the biggest need in the next couple years.

It's funny, usually this board is so short sighted, but IMO too many of you are looking too far ahead and only thinking distant future instead of thinking now and tomorrow.

Lastly, I also thought why not tank and get a higher draft position this year. Well, that's not how Detroit runs things and shame on us for ever wanting them to do that. They can build the right way. Even if they only played the youth, we aren't likely to get a high pick. So let's tank for 3-4 spots? Grow up. For all of the complaining about Holland doing nothing since 09, look at all of the young players that have since been drafted. These turnarounds don't happen overnight and while some of you have done nothing but complain about him in that time span, Detroit has developed their deepest prospect pool I can ever remember.

And as far fetched as it is to make a run this year, if we make the playoffs you just never know. There's a reason they actually play the series out on the ice rather than paper. There are no powerhouses in the East right now. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Helm, and Weiss could all be back. And if that happens, look out. Additionally, this is a business so making the playoffs does matter financially in ways many of us are ignorant to. And like I said, there is no tanking for #1 at this point. Even if we attempted to tank we aren't gaining much ground. But regardless, I like our team's near future and you can bet that I'll be watching and rooting for them every game from here on out.

Go Wings.

Really well said.
 

dtones520

Registered User
Jun 10, 2008
3,097
0
Midland, MI
Why would we want him back?

The Wings without him have 6 centers as of next season:

Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Weiss
Helm
Andersson
Sheahan.

Why add to the logjam? I mean Legwand projects to be a 3-4th line center when this team is healthy. Mouslon and Vanek on the other hand next season would project as top 6 wingers pretty easily.

Maybe this is a sign that Weiss will not be back one way or the other and Legwand takes his spot on the list.

Your list also explains why, if we are still shooting to make the playoffs, we traded for Legwand, as we are without 4 of those 6 centers and Legwand is better than Jarnkrok right now and for the next 2-3 years. The organization is making its last stand on keeping the playoff streak alive. Legwand helps do that and trading our 7th best center (8th if you put Glendening ahead of him) and a 2nd rounder ( if we make it) isn't that big of a price.
 

Syckle78

Registered User
Nov 5, 2011
14,585
7,824
Redford, MI
Are they more valuable for Detroit's current need? And I think that what NYI and Buffalo got for those two players are indicators of what the entire NHL values those two players at.

But we can also agree to disagree on the value of Thomas Vanek and Matt Moulson and the value of a high scoring, no defense left winger. There is a reason that Jonathan Toews has two cups and Alex Ovechkin has none.

Yes because Toews plays on a stacked than with a great defense and front office that doesn't have it's collective head up it's ass.
 

Tomas W

Registered User
Oct 23, 2007
7,097
489
Sweden
A pretty desperate move. Yes we need a center for the rest of the season but is it really worth to weaken our prospect pool? Is that the right way to go? How many of the veterans Holland signed lately have panned out? Not many...

And Legwand is just a rental I take it (?), a good rental, but a 20 game rental just the same.
 

drw02

Registered User
Aug 10, 2013
5,736
973
It's so ****ing sad when it gets to the point you have to fear trade deadline day because your GM doesn't know what value is...

David Legwand just the newest member at the country club. Settle in Davey, you'll be here until your legs literally fall off...and even then you will still have a spot locked down...Kenny's already working on that 5.5M/5 year extension...

Wonder what's next from Kenny boy...what's he got cookin' for the draft? Maybe trade our first to Nashville to reacquire the negotiating rights to Eaves? Mrazek and a 2nd for Dan Ellis? Just. Cannot. Wait.
 
Oct 18, 2006
14,488
2,042
What a Pejorative Slured trade. Oh my goodness. I'm still in shock.

Woke up, saw that we acquired Legwand. My immediate reaction was concern, concern that we'd traded away good pieces. I then saw that it involved a prospect. I was desperately hoping it wasn't an 'elite' prospect. Then I saw it was Jarnkrok, and I've felt sick all day.

What the actual heck?? Like seriously, WHAT THE HECK?? There must surely be more to this than meets the eye. I mean Calle has been regarded, by management, as a great prospect ever since the day he was drafted. He had a slow start to the season, but he's been on a tear lately. A month after Jiri Fisher sung his praises, he's traded out?? And for that in return??

DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!! What I do understand is that Holland is more desperate to continue the playoff streak than he us about the future. A conditional pick that improves to a second if we make the playoffs proves that. What a joke.
 
Jul 30, 2005
17,699
4,653
I mean, what is location, really
One of Datsyuk and Zetterberg is going to be playing the Wing.

Helm can't stay healthy, Weiss is a question mark and Andersson is completely expendable.

I don't think an extra center is really a problem at this point, unless you're Landon Ferraro.
My only complaint is that if the stars align perfectly, Sheahan ends up out of the lineup. I'm talking about some combination of: Datsyuk, Legwand, Weiss, and Helm. I suppose somebody could play the wing, but then that starts taking icetime from Tatar and Jurco.

But on the other hand, that's some really solid center depth that could win a lot of matchups. You'd probably have a third line that can do serious damage.
 

silkyjohnson50

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
11,301
1,178
A pretty desperate move. Yes we need a center for the rest of the season but is it really worth to weaken our prospect pool? Is that the right way to go? How many of the veterans Holland signed lately have panned out? Not many...

And Legwand is just a rental I take it (?), a good rental, but a 20 game rental just the same.

“He’s a local boy, so we’re thinking if we want to keep the player beyond this year it’s a very reasonable to happen. He had to waive a no-move (clause) to come here so obviously he wanted to come home.â€
- Ken Holland

I think it's pretty likely he's back. It'll give us nice center depth with the ability to potentially move a piece or two for an upgrade on the blueline.
 
Jul 30, 2005
17,699
4,653
I mean, what is location, really
“He’s a local boy, so we’re thinking if we want to keep the player beyond this year it’s a very reasonable to happen. He had to waive a no-move (clause) to come here so obviously he wanted to come home.â€
- Ken Holland

I think it's pretty likely he's back. It'll give us nice center depth with the ability to potentially move a piece or two for an upgrade on the blueline.
I might get tarred and feathered for this, but I'd consider moving Helm and a pick for a defenseman.
 

silkyjohnson50

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
11,301
1,178
What a Pejorative Slured trade. Oh my goodness. I'm still in shock.

Woke up, saw that we acquired Legwand. My immediate reaction was concern, concern that we'd traded away good pieces. I then saw that it involved a prospect. I was desperately hoping it wasn't an 'elite' prospect. Then I saw it was Jarnkrok, and I've felt sick all day.

I think the truth is that Jarnkrok wasn't an 'elite' prospect. Let me put it this way, if he was a winger, organizationally he'd be behind the following (including our NHL youth):

Nyquist, Jurco, Mantha, and Tatar. He'd be right there alongside Pulkkinen.

We valued him for playing center, rightfully so I should mention. But now with Legwand, we have NHL center depth. Jarnkrok wasn't going to beat out any of our likely centers (Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Legwand, Helm/Sheahan, or Weiss) for the next couple seasons. And he wasn't a high end center prospect, just the highest in our organization (even though that became debatable thanks to Sheahan.)

Detroit doesn't need a young center to step up next year or likely immediately after. We can now use our 1st rounder this upcoming draft to develop our next center when the aforementioned players are finished.

I think people need to sit back and realize that we just improved our team for the next couple years, you know, the years that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still high level players. This is a good thing.
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
13,670
4,352
It's so ****ing sad when it gets to the point you have to fear trade deadline day because your GM doesn't know what value is...

David Legwand just the newest member at the country club. Settle in Davey, you'll be here until your legs literally fall off...and even then you will still have a spot locked down...Kenny's already working on that 5.5M/5 year extension...

Wonder what's next from Kenny boy...what's he got cookin' for the draft? Maybe trade our first to Nashville to reacquire the negotiating rights to Eaves? Mrazek and a 2nd for Dan Ellis? Just. Cannot. Wait.

This is a good post and it made me laugh (because it's true).
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
I think the truth is that Jarnkrok wasn't an 'elite' prospect. Let me put it this way, if he was a winger, organizationally he'd be behind the following (including our NHL youth):

Nyquist, Jurco, Mantha, and Tatar. He'd be right there alongside Pulkkinen.

We valued him for playing center, rightfully so I should mention. But now with Legwand, we have NHL center depth. Jarnkrok wasn't going to beat out any of our likely centers (Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Legwand, Helm/Sheahan, or Weiss) for the next couple seasons. And he wasn't a high end center prospect, just the highest in our organization (even though that became debatable thanks to Sheahan.)

Detroit doesn't need a young center to step up next year or likely immediately after. We can now use our 1st rounder this upcoming draft to develop our next center when the aforementioned players are finished.

I think people need to sit back and realize that we just improved our team for the next couple years, you know, the years that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still high level players. This is a good thing.

His upside was high.

And we only have a CHANCE at MARGINALLY improving our team for the next couple of years. Legwand is not that great and his best years are very likely behind him at this point.

I don't consider that trade off a good thing. Especially since it came only because of massive injuries and is most likely a desperation move to keep the streak alive. This was done at the cost of long term club health for very short term minimal gain. The chances of making the playoffs are not that good, even with Legwand. And any success in the playoffs will be largely contingent upon Zetterberg returning in time/being in form. That's not exactly a sure thing.
 

Tomas W

Registered User
Oct 23, 2007
7,097
489
Sweden
The point is not if Järnkrok really is going to be another Zetterberg or not, that is for the future to tell, the point is that our prospect pool (we added a pick as well) just got a notch worse, and that for a player that might be only for the season.

Selling the farm = selling the future.
 

silkyjohnson50

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
11,301
1,178
His upside was high..

Like I've said, he was my favorite prospect since his World Junior days but even then he wasn't an elite ceiling guy. He was always a 2-way 2nd line center (good Filppula) type prospect. That ceiling has become even further to attain at this point because the player that I had my eye on was an elite skater. Jarnkrok was no longer an elite skater in 2014. His hockey smarts won't disappear, but skating was what allowed him to take really take advantage of it. I didn't see the same skater anymore. I still hope the best for him as a NHLer though.

Just among our current young players, the following all clearly have higher ceilings: Mantha, Nyquist, Jurco, Mrazek, Sproul. Those are high ceiling guys. In terms of ceiling, nothing separates Jarnkrok from the likes of Tatar, Pulkkinen, 3-4 of our defencemen, and even possibly Sheahan who has shown more than expected.

His position is the main reason people are freaking out. But guess what, we aren't in desperate need for center depth in the short term future (of course assuming that we don't have seasons like the following in terms of injuries, which let's be real, is highly unlikely)

The point is not if Järnkrok really is going to be another Zetterberg or not, that is for the future to tell, the point is that our prospect pool (we added a pick as well) just got a notch worse, and that for a player that might be only for the season.

Selling the farm = selling the future.

The future as in when? Because we just gave ourselves a chance a better future as in tomorrow and the next few years.

The whole point of a prospect pool is:

1) to develop to your big club
2) to use as pieces to improve your big club

Detroit's pool is as deep as it's ever been. It's been said a lot recently, but not everyone is going to end up a Red Wing. There's just not enough roster spots.

Legwand immediately improves the team, and if he re-signs which seems fairly likely, he adds center depth. Detroit can then potentially sell off more pieces like a Helm or Sheahan to upgrade the blueline.

Despite everyones' frantic future freak out, Detroit is in real good shape right now. They improve immediately and they have the pieces for a real good squad the next few years. I'm excited.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
Yes it's because he was a center and nearly every good team builds strength down the middle. That's not for no reason. It's because of how crucial the position is. A good Filppula is tough to come by. They are great additions to any team. Moreover he was young. Our best centers are over 30. Three (four if you count Franzen) are over 33. They are gone in the near future.

And the chances of us acquiring one via trade or free agency? Pretty slim. Teams do not give up young skilled centers. They lock them up. Well, most teams do. Apparently the best GM in the league gives them away in a season where most sellers weren't getting good returns on premium products. It's going to take a lot of money/assets to acquire a top center that's not 30+.

That's the issue. It's the totality of circumstances, not just his position. It's his age, the ages of our other centers, the lack of depth we have at center in our prospect pool, the cost of acquiring top centers through trades/free agency.

It all points to this being a terrible trade.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad