Series Talk: Leafs vs CBJ Part 2

[crump]

here is the "playoff bracket"
2020 Stanley Cup playoffs - Wikipedia

Just as the 1979 preliminary round was considered post season playoff hockey, so are these Qualifying rounds. Historically we have never had "Eighth Finals, Quarter Finals, Semi Finals, Finals" so they call them preliminary rounds or qualifying rounds. They are all playoffs. Stop being idiots.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nothing is wrong with me. I'm just stating the facts. You came in and demanded that the NHL's official statement is wrong, with no evidence, and that the postseason suddenly isn't the playoffs, with no evidence. Based, it seems, entirely on your assumptions from media headlines.

They mentioned the postseason multiple times, which is the same thing.

I have. Here's another:

NHL Records

"2019-20: The NHL announces on May 26, 2020, the conclusion of the 2019-20 regular season as well as a modified competitive playoff format that features 24 teams – the top 12 in each conference based on points percentage at the time of the League’s pause (through games of March 11, 2020)."

"2020 Stanley Cup Qualifiers
The 2020 Stanley Cup Playoffs begin with the 2020 Stanley Cup Qualifiers, which feature both a Round Robin and Qualifying Round."

Postseason clearly isn't the same thing, see nhl.com where the upcoming rounds are described as the 1st round.

You finally found a quote on nhl.com that says the qualifiers are playoffs, good for you. You could have started with that, would have saved a lot of time. I've found at least 10 quotes there that say the playoffs start next week so at best you can say that they're contradicting themselves. The fact that the quotes saying the playoffs haven't begun yet outnumber the others by 10-1 or whatever suggest that that is correct, perhaps the nhl.com will fix the other quotes at some point, we'll see.

Again, it's not a matter of opinion. What you think is irrelevant. The NHL decides. The NHL says it's the playoffs.

The Leafs have made the playoffs. If they win tomorrow, they have a playoff series win.

You said that what is happening now is "round 0". Have you found anything to back up up yet or will yo retract that statement? Or will you just ignore the question like you've ignored others that you have no answer for.

 

[Gary Nylund]

here is the "playoff bracket"
2020 Stanley Cup playoffs - Wikipedia

Just as the 1979 preliminary round was considered post season playoff hockey, so are these Qualifying rounds. Historically we have never had "Eighth Finals, Quarter Finals, Semi Finals, Finals" so they call them preliminary rounds or qualifying rounds. They are all playoffs. Stop being idiots.

Insulting people isn't a persuasive argument. And Wikipedia is hardly an authority in this case.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think they're both kinda right.

Dekes is right that all of this is being recorded as effectively the playoffs, with no distinction being made in the record books. So Matthews' 6 points are counted just as same as the points he got against Boston last year for all intents and purposes. Same with team stats.

On the other hand, I get where rubous is coming from. If we lose tomorrow, I won't think 'oh the Leafs got just as far as they did last year'. I'll think that we basically failed to qualify for the playoffs. We took a step back. We didn't lose in round 1. We lost in round 0. It'll be the same to me as not making the playoffs.

Seems fair as the NHL is contradicting themselves. In most places on nhl.com they say this is the post season, not the playoffs as they keep saying things like MTL beat CHI advancing to the 1st round, Chicago to play Vegas in the 1st round etc.

I'll go on record here - if Dekes can produce a source for his claim that the Toronto/Columbus series is part of "round zero" then I'll agree with him that Toronto made the playoffs. If however he just made it up ( as I suspect is the case ) then I'll stick with what I see all over nhl.com which is that the first round (of the playoffs duh) starts next week.

 

[Gallagbi]

Seems fair as the NHL is contradicting themselves. In most places on nhl.com they say this is the post season, not the playoffs as they keep saying things like MTL beat CHI advancing to the 1st round, Chicago to play Vegas in the 1st round etc.

I'll go on record here - if Dekes can produce a source for his claim that the Toronto/Columbus series is part of "round zero" then I'll agree with him that Toronto made the playoffs. If however he just made it up ( as I suspect is the case ) then I'll stick with what I see all over nhl.com which is that the first round (of the playoffs duh) starts next week.

When you go to NHL.Com and look at the player stats it lists it as "playoffs" fwiw

Not sure what or why the technicality of whether this is *playoffs or just post season elimination series matters.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is playoffs. When ya come around you’ll realize that.

 

[cruzer]

Any news on Werenski? Is he starting? Also will Muzzin play right away in the next round if we were to make it?

Just curious. Werenski was scheduled for a MRI yesterday. If he went for one, doesn't he have to be quarantined for 4 days?

 

[BertCorbeau]

Well at the time of the shut down the Leafs had an approximate 75% chance of making the playoffs ... So they still could have stumbled in mediocrity for those remaining dozen games and made it into round 1.

Instead they were forced to play a blank slate best 3 of 5 series to make it to the next 'round'.

What's interesting is that applying those percentages, that means the Leafs would have had to have won 60% of their remaining games (7 games roughly) to 'qualify' for the playoffs... Which would have given them 95 points in the standings, right at the cutoff.

But at the end of the day this is a non-traditional playoff format, and winning a qualifying 'round' is better than not winning any sort of round to advance IMO. Likewise losing a round is probably not as bad (given the shorter sample size and quality of competition) than bombing out in their remaining 12 games and missing the playoffs.

We really shouldn't be using this playoff as a dead comparison for progress or for regression because there are too many abnormal variables in play. The record books will show this as playoff hockey. Just not what we typically see.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Postseason clearly isn't the same thing, see nhl.com where the upcoming rounds are described as the 1st round.

That says nothing about postseason not being the same thing as playoffs. That's something you've decided entirely on your own assumptions.

You finally found a quote on nhl.com that says the qualifiers are playoffs, good for you. You could have started with that, would have saved a lot of time.

I did start with showing you the official NHL statement on this question, saying it's the playoffs. That should be enough. That wasn't enough for you. Now I have two additional quotes directly from records.NHL.com, where it discusses all historical playoff formats, and it explicitly says that the qualifiers are included in the playoffs. No ambiguity. No ifs, and, or buts. Playoffs.

I've found at least 10 quotes there that say the playoffs start next week so at best you can say that they're contradicting themselves.

No, you can't, and no, you haven't. You've found a few media headlines, and then you've drawn personal assumptions from that. That does not overrule official NHL statements.

I'm tired of discussing this. You were wrong. This is the playoffs. Period. Leafs made the playoffs. Period. If we win tonight, we have a playoff series win. Period. What that means regarding the team is up to you, but whether it's the playoffs is not up to you.

I'll leave you with the statement you told me on the previous page:

If you think the NHL is "useless" a source then you're entitled to that opinion but they are the ones who decide what's playoffs and what isn't, not you.

 

[Gary Nylund]

When you go to NHL.Com and look at the player stats it lists it as "playoffs" fwiw

Not sure what or why the technicality of whether this is *playoffs or just post season elimination series matters.

Like I said, nhl.com is contradicting themselves in a number of places. Where you see the stats looks the same as it's looked for probably over a decade, same goes for the link Dekes provided so the fact that they haven't changed it doesn't mean much IMO as it would take a lot of time/effort to rethink every page on their site. If you look at all the current articles, they all say the same thing - the first round hasn't started yet.

I guess it doesn't matter much, it's just a somewhat interesting technical point.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Can you imagine Babcock coaching that game? No in-game adjustments, no big 3 on the same line, Marty playing 20 minutes, no timeouts, giving more minutes to a 4th line who were making things happen, etc. However, that’s the past. We now have a coach who coaches. We should win this game.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not sure what or why the technicality of whether this is *playoffs or just post season elimination series matters.

It's quite clearly to discredit Leaf accomplishments. If we lose, it will be claimed that we didn't make the playoffs, even though that's not true. If we win, it will be claimed that we don't have a playoff series win, even though that's not true.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That says nothing about postseason not being the same thing as playoffs. That's something you've decided entirely on your own assumptions.

I did start with showing you the official NHL statement on this question, saying it's the playoffs. That should be enough. That wasn't enough for you. Now I have two additional quotes directly from records.NHL.com, where it discusses all historical playoff formats, and it explicitly says that the qualifiers are included in the playoffs. No ambiguity. No ifs, and, or buts. Playoffs.

No, you can't, and no, you haven't. You've found a few media headlines, and then you've drawn personal assumptions from that. That does not overrule official NHL statements.

I'm tired of discussing this. You were wrong. This is the playoffs. Period. Leafs made the playoffs. Period. If we win tonight, we have a playoff series win. Period. What that means regarding the team is up to you, but whether it's the playoffs is not up to you.

I'll leave you with the statement you told me on the previous page:

Nope, that statement you started with said post season, not playoffs.

I gave you quotes from nhl.com, the fact that you keep referring to them as "media headlines" makes you look bad.

Period ... period ... period ... not up to you. LOL, right back at ya my friend.

Still waiting for your source on this being "round zero" of the playoffs. Either back up your statement or admit you made it up.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nope, that statement you started with said post season, not playoffs.

Postseason is the same thing as playoffs. I also gave you two quotes from the official all-time playoff format section of records.NHL.com, specifically and explicitly saying that the qualifying rounds are the playoffs.

Where you see the stats looks the same as it's looked for probably over a decade, same goes for the link Dekes provided

What are you talking about? The link I provided was to their all-time playoff format page, which was updated after this current format was agreed upon, to explain, in detail, all the rules, including that the qualifying round is the playoffs.

I gave you quotes from nhl.com, the fact that you keep referring to them as "media headlines" makes you look bad.

You've given me a few media headlines from NHL.com, which is a very very very different thing than their official statement on the matter. Those media headlines also don't say what you claim. You've just arbitrarily decided that because they refer to something as the 1st round to keep historical consistency, then that invalidates their official statement.

This is game day for an elimination game in the playoffs. Are you really going to spend all day pointlessly arguing against the NHL's official statement?

 

[supermann_98]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[willmma]

Why are we even discussing playoffs or not??

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just curious. Werenski was scheduled for a MRI yesterday. If he went for one, doesn't he have to be quarantined for 4 days?

Likely not. It's determined on a case by case basis, but apparently the process they have for getting people to the hospital and back is pretty enclosed, and the medical director goes with them to ensure that there wouldn't be any exposure.

 

[ACC1224]

Nope, that statement you started with said post season, not playoffs.

I gave you quotes from nhl.com, the fact that you keep referring to them as "media headlines" makes you look bad.

Period ... period ... period ... not up to you. LOL, right back at ya my friend.

Still waiting for your source on this being "round zero" of the playoffs. Either back up your statement or admit you made it up.

End of the day there wouldn’t be ‘Qualifying Series’ if Teams has already qualified like Philly, Tampa, etc

 

[hoglund]

Postseason clearly isn't the same thing, see nhl.com where the upcoming rounds are described as the 1st round.

You finally found a quote on nhl.com that says the qualifiers are playoffs, good for you. You could have started with that, would have saved a lot of time. I've found at least 10 quotes there that say the playoffs start next week so at best you can say that they're contradicting themselves. The fact that the quotes saying the playoffs haven't begun yet outnumber the others by 10-1 or whatever suggest that that is correct, perhaps the nhl.com will fix the other quotes at some point, we'll see.



You said that what is happening now is "round 0". Have you found anything to back up up yet or will yo retract that statement? Or will you just ignore the question like you've ignored others that you have no answer for.

This year is an odd year, call it what you want, but this is a tournament. It didn't start with 16 teams, it started with 24 and a couple of teams had no business being there (Chicago and Montreal) and both are probably advancing to the 'playoffs".

 

[Cleetus]

Why do people celebrate like this when they "triggered" somebody by showing they lack intelligence? It's like ending an argument with "I'm a stupid idiot, therefore I win!"

argument was never ended there but maybe you cant read that far ahead.... lack of intelligence?

 

[Gallagbi]

Like I said, nhl.com is contradicting themselves in a number of places. Where you see the stats looks the same as it's looked for probably over a decade, same goes for the link Dekes provided so the fact that they haven't changed it doesn't mean much IMO as it would take a lot of time/effort to rethink every page on their site. If you look at all the current articles, they all say the same thing - the first round hasn't started yet.

I guess it doesn't matter much, it's just a somewhat interesting technical point.

It's basically just the stats page they would need to update and you would just copy the current template and rename. Doesn't seem like a ton of work to be honest

 

[Gary Nylund]

Postseason is the same thing as playoffs. I also gave you two quotes from the official all-time playoff format section of records.NHL.com, specifically and explicitly saying that the qualifying rounds are the playoffs.

What are you talking about? The link I provided was to their all-time playoff format page, which was updated after this current format was agreed upon, to explain, in detail, all the rules, including that the qualifying round is the playoffs.

You've given me a few media headlines from NHL.com, which is a very very very different thing than their official statement on the matter. Those media headlines also don't say what you claim. You've just arbitrarily decided that because they refer to something as the 1st round to keep historical consistency, then that invalidates their official statement.

This is game day for an elimination game in the playoffs. Are you really going to spend all day pointlessly arguing against the NHL's official statement?

You keep repeating yourself while refusing to answer several questions, not a good look. The first round starts next week and your response to that was that this is round zero. I refuse to waste any more time on someone who makes stuff up so either respond to this or don't bother responding:

Still waiting for your source on this being "round zero" of the playoffs. Either back up your statement or admit you made it up.

This year is an odd year, call it what you want, but this is a tournament. It didn't start with 16 teams, it started with 24 and a couple of teams had no business being there (Chicago and Montreal) and both are probably advancing to the 'playoffs".

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's basically just the stats page they would need to update and you would just copy the current template and rename. Doesn't seem like a ton of work to be honest

Sure, if they notice it. It's a confusing and unique situation so I can't really fault the NHL for contradicting themselves on their home page.

It's a tournament - I think that's something we can all agree on. or maybe not, who knows.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You keep repeating yourself while refusing to answer several questions, not a good look.

I have answered the question with abundant and clear evidence. I keep repeating myself because you don't seem to understand, and you are mischaracterizing what has been presented to you. The only one refusing to back up their claim here is you.

I don't have any interest in engaging in your side argument deflection. It's not hard to figure out that 0 comes before 1, and it's quite irrelevant what name you give it. What's important is that this is the playoffs. The NHL has made that very clear. End of discussion.

 

[ACC1224]

Sure, if they notice it. It's a confusing and unique situation so I can't really fault the NHL for contradicting themselves on their home page.

It's a tournament - I think that's something we can all agree on. or maybe not, who knows.

Pre-playoff tournament is a good way to put it. When a third of the teams can’t be eliminated and those that don’t qualify can win 1st overall it’s a pretty big stretch to see this as anything more than qualifying.
If this format were to become permanent, then it’s a different discussion.