Post-Game Talk: Leafs Shutout 2-0

[kyle n00bas]

Just a thought.... when Kadri's game was transformed by Babcock

That's a myth perpetuated by a storyline-starved media. Kadri's been a possession-driver his entire career. Babcock is just the first coach we've had to decide to match him up against top lines.

Last year wasn't much more of a "break out" for him than the shortened 2012-13 season was.

 

[Menzinger]

That's a myth perpetuated by a storyline-starved media. Kadri's been a possession-driver his entire career. Babcock is just the first coach we've had to decide to match him up against top lines.

Last year wasn't much more of a "break out" for him than the shortened 2012-13 season was.

One of the more frustrating myths too

 

[Advanced stats]

That's a myth perpetuated by a storyline-starved media. Kadri's been a possession-driver his entire career. Babcock is just the first coach we've had to decide to match him up against top lines.

Last year wasn't much more of a "break out" for him than the shortened 2012-13 season was.

I'm sorry, but I watched Naz for 3 years in London, and obviously his NHL career, and someone or something absolutely transformed Kadri. Gone is the selfish, arrogant, one dimensional cherry picker. His talent and desire was always there, and he was very successful in junior, but his game now has a whole new complete dimension. He's talked about it a few times.

Is it a result of Babcock? IDK...I'd guess partially. I'd bet my life that Kadri doesn't become the player he is today if Carlyle or Wilson is still coach. Its very well known that Babs has made it a priority to develop Kadri.

 

[kyle n00bas]

For clarification: by "entire career", I meant since becoming an NHL regular in 2012-13, not that he literally hasn't developed since playing for the London Knights.

 

[Trapper]

disagree. when we play to our strengths and compete we absolutely have the talent to contend

Well we will see.
On a cold December game it doesn't mean much win or lose.
We will see if my opinions are justified come playoff hockey time.
There are many teams in the league, St. Louis, San Jose, Washington, NY that have been better than us for longer and couldn't get over the hump. I know people love the direction we are heading in (as do I, it's great) but I'm not presuming in year 3 that we are a contender with issues I see. Not that we just magically overcome growing pains most franchises endure because hey, it's us.
As I've stated before, this is the pain. Not the tear down, but the expectations of wanting to be further along faster. To me this team is still in the process and it's not done.

 

[Myopic]

I'm sorry, but I watched Naz for 3 years in London, and obviously his NHL career, and someone or something absolutely transformed Kadri. Gone is the selfish, arrogant, one dimensional cherry picker. His talent and desire was always there, and he was very successful in junior, but his game now has a whole new complete dimension. He's talked about it a few times.

Is it a result of Babcock? IDK...I'd guess partially. I'd bet my life that Kadri doesn't become the player he is today if Carlyle or Wilson is still coach.

Anyone who doesn't give credit to Babcock for Kadri's remarkable transformation as a shutdown 2-way center is pretty clueless.

Kadri said that Babcock summoned him into his office almost daily 2 years ago and now he rarely has to go to the "principal's" office. I think Naz has got the message and relishes his new role. He's now one of the best 2-way centers in the league. Give Babs credit for his development.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I am pretty sure Babs gives all his centers an option of " you can play wing or you can play center my way, choose?"

 

[wingman75]

I only saw the first period last night, and a few other moments. But there is pretty much no offensive drive. No sustained pressure, nothing dangerous off the rush. Its strange to watch.

Do you all feel it might just be that sophmore jinx everyone is always talking about. Forget about our record and look at the performances of each 2nd year player. They are all struggling in some manner, and yet we still have an impressive record (for various reasons) and are in a great spot to secure a playoff spot for a second year in a row.

I believe, like some others have said, that next year is our big year. When all these guys are in year 3 of their professional careers and we have made some roster alterations in the vet category.

Am I worried/frustrated/pissed in watching this team over the past 3 weeks. 100% yes, but I am not losing sight of the direction we are headed and the ceiling we have now created.

 

[Paradoc]

He needs to sit a game to take a break and get his mind reset. Constantly throwing him out there with every rando line combo hasn't been working.

You guys act like a 20 year old getting scratched would make him auto-bust.

So your solution to guy who is one point behind Nylander and had a tough game is to scratch him? What good would that do? Destroy his confidence even more? I would rather he get demoted because scratching your best young player does nothing for him.

 

[ToneDog]

I'd think the number of assists he'll get alone will surpass Hyman's point total.

You are right but I was referring to goals.

 

[Apotheosis]

Can we just take a page out of Tampa's playbook? For what it's worth, we're deeper from top to bottom. They have their two best offensive players playing together. Why don't we stack Matthews with Marner, Nylander with talented wingers, and have guys like Hyman and co. play suitable roles to their limited skill? You win in this league on depth, but having high end talent at the top of the depth chart. Babcock looks like he is sucking the team dry of creativity.

 

[stickty111]

Babcock has to want to turn around first and he obviously doesn't. He said he liked our games against Minnesota and the flyers and the only thing he'd change is to tighten things up further. It's getting scary

That is a bit concerning. All though it could be him hiding the players, and shifting the blame towards himself.

 

[KPower]

Great game...held them to only 2 goals...everyone worked hard...good ole Saskatchewan hockey.

 

[kyle n00bas]

Can we just take a page out of Tampa's playbook? For what it's worth, we're deeper from top to bottom. They have their two best offensive players playing together. Why don't we stack Matthews with Marner, Nylander with talented wingers, and have guys like Hyman and co. play suitable roles to their limited skill? You win in this league on depth, but having high end talent at the top of the depth chart. Babcock looks like he is sucking the team dry of creativity.

Yeah, I feel like our default configuration should consist of JVR and Marleau as our top two LWs, Matthews and Kadri as our top two Cs, and Nylander and Marner as our top two RWs, whatever the lines may be. From there, adjustments can be made as guys play their way up/down the lineup. Stapling Hyman to your top scoring line before a guy like JVR has ever even been given a chance on Matthews' wing is just asinine to me.

Like, in 100+ games as teammates, have we ever even seen a JVR/Matthews combo? Is there any cogent reason not to ever once try it, even if only for a third period when we're down by a goal or two, or in an OT?

 

[Mr Hockey]

I was thinking Tampa was maybe in the top 3 deepest teams in the league

 

[666]

Yeah, I feel like our default configuration should consist of JVR and Marleau as our top two LWs, Matthews and Kadri as our top two Cs, and Nylander and Marner as our top two RWs, whatever the lines may be. From there, adjustments can be made as guys play their way up/down the lineup. Stapling Hyman to your top scoring line before a guy like JVR has ever even been given a chance on Matthews' wing is just asinine to me.

Like, in 100+ games as teammates, have we ever even seen a JVR/Matthews combo? Is there any cogent reason not to ever once try it, even if only for a third period when we're down by a goal or two, or in an OT?

It is strange that Bozak and JVR are almost always together. My guess is that Babcock knows that both won't be with us next season.

 

[Suntouchable13]

It is strange that Bozak and JVR are almost always together. My guess is that Babcock knows that both won't be with us next season.

It's because they both have to play sheltered minutes, may as well be together.

 

[member 262271]

You are right but I was referring to goals.

Ah I gotcha. He might, but that would require Marner to keep going goalless, I really hope not.

 

[kyle n00bas]

It's because they both have to play sheltered minutes, may as well be together.

Hyman-Matthews played more sheltered minutes than JVR-Bozak did last year, so even that wouldn't explain it. Maybe they tried it in practice and Babs didn't like what he saw? I don't know. It's bizarre to have such immutable LW/C combinations for over 100 games, anyway. Hard to reconcile because it's not like I'm going to sit here and say Mike Babcock is an idiot, but.... how do you even make sense of some of this stuff?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Well we will see.
On a cold December game it doesn't mean much win or lose.
We will see if my opinions are justified come playoff hockey time.
There are many teams in the league, St. Louis, San Jose, Washington, NY that have been better than us for longer and couldn't get over the hump. I know people love the direction we are heading in (as do I, it's great) but I'm not presuming in year 3 that we are a contender with issues I see. Not that we just magically overcome growing pains most franchises endure because hey, it's us.
As I've stated before, this is the pain. Not the tear down, but the expectations of wanting to be further along faster. To me this team is still in the process and it's not done.

And this is why what they do this year with the pending UFA's and the young guys waiting in the wings will be very interesting. At the TDL are they buyers? And i guess beyond that, do they re-sign JVR? Bozak? Komarov? I hope not to all 3

 

[Trapper]

And this is why what they do this year with the pending UFA's and the young guys waiting in the wings will be very interesting. At the TDL are they buyers? And i guess beyond that, do they re-sign JVR? Bozak? Komarov? I hope not to all 3

Very good question.
Fans, media and management are 3 different things entirely.
To me JVR and Gardiner are the 2 assets to worry about. I don't agree with letting either walk for nothing. Bozak and Komarov ok. That's your 7 million in cap space asset and neither is a piece you couldn't sign a UFA or promote from within.

 

[Pookie]

Yes. This is his second year, and people already want him scratched when he was our best player for a while after Matthews got injured.

A few months ago those same people were probably loving the "Shanaplan" too... the guy who has faith in this coaching and management staff to make personnel decisions.

People. What can you do?

 

[ToneDog]

Ah I gotcha. He might, but that would require Marner to keep going goalless, I really hope not.

Actually Mitch needs to triple his goal output just to tie Hyman.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I think its a bunch of media hype that we have to go for it this year. The big 3 aren't where they will be next year, the defense needs some work and only Jvr leaving is the reason some claim now is the time. Jvr can be replaced and Bozak and Komo are in decline and replaceable internally. We aren't buyers, its media bunk. No way we are giving up Dermott, Liljegren or even Grundstrom. I don't even want to trade our first in a strong draft as we have the assets to move up if something we need drops. Goaltending has made us look good and we may easily drop based on our overall play. 10th overall isn't that far or implausible.

 

[Antropovsky]

Well Babcock’s managed to take a good, young, dynamic offensive team and turn them into a boring average one. So that’s something, I guess?

You realize he's also without his generational 1st line center right? Not like losing Matthews would effect the dynamic offensiveness of the team.