Post-Game Talk: Leafs Shutout 2-0

Man Bear Pig

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
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So you were complaining about Hymans season ATOI and not tonight's game for some reason, you guys complain so much its hard to tell. :thumbu:
Yes I was and you were completely wrong. I'm talking big picture here, why is he still getting all these minutes when he's doing absolutely nothing. Meanwhile, Leivo is on the fourth line and Kapanen is in the press box. Plenty of players looked awful tonight but the point still stands that its insane that Babcock plays him as much as he does. Marner or Nylander make one mistake and they're on the fourth line. The double standard is real. No narrative, just reality.
 

cookie

Fresh From The Oven
Nov 24, 2009
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We've got a 1st and 2nd year player as regular Dmen. We've got what, Matthews, Brown, Nylander, Marner, Hyman, Leivo, Soshnikov and ??? up front, all in their 2nd year. Matthews being hurt for 7/8 games already? Yes, Freddy has stood on his head in Nov/Dec, but we've still scored a lot and our goal diff has improved, slowly, and we're not doing too badly in the standings. This with a couple of western swings, back to backs and little practice time. Ups and downs, yup! We are not a finished product.
You just used goal differential as a means of team evaluation while making note of Freddy standing on his head. This was the same story that led us to that proverbial 18-wheeler falling off. I think a better way of looking at things would be to look at scoring chances where, despite our pathetic shot counts, we manage to hang in. At the end of the day, fans know that the team and the players can (and should) be playing better. Fans know that proper execution will lead to that much more offense for the team. Unfortunately for the first part of your argument, both Hainsey and Borgman have been playing well. The blame, at least in terms of the Leafs' lacklustre transition game, should fall on the veterans--Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and Polak.
 

SHANNYPLAN

Registered User
Nov 24, 2016
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VanRiemsdyk - Nylander - Brown
Marleau ------ Bozak ------ Marner
Hyman ----- Kadri ----- Kappanen
Martin ------ Komarov ------ Leivo

Rielly ------- Zaitsev
Gardiner - Hainsey
Borgman - Carrick

 

firstemperor

Registered User
May 25, 2011
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This is what bothers me more than anything.

Even if Polak was better than Carrick (he's not), Polak is on his last legs. The minutes he eats up are valuable development minutes for Carrick or someone else. Even if Carrick doesn't improve from what he is now, you need to let him try.

The same goes for Komorov. He played 19 minutes tonight, why? Is this the year we're going for the cup? If we're serious about thinking long term, Komorov won't be on this roster. Young players need to play to get better. Is Dominic Moore SO good that you just can't slot in time for Aaltonen? The same goes for Martin.

If we don't sell our UFAs like Bozak at the deadline I'll know this team honestly is just paying lip service to building for the future. They've fallen into the same trap of old management.

Even when we were doing well, I've been trying to be optimistic and reach as to why Babock loves certain players, Martin, even Hyman (long-game)= understandable but I'll never understand his usage of Komarov, Polak.

There is no long game for Komarov or Polak. There is no big picture. There is no reason to play either in heavy minutes, save on the PK. And there is certainly no reason to play a low-event, simplistic, safe game with either (see Dubas's speech about simplicity in today's game). They don't generate anything the other way, plays and possession literally die on their stick. And they aren't adept enough defensively to make up the gap. It's even more head-scratching when you consider the options we have internally.

I'm optimistic anyone who vouches for either can give me a strong, good, rational reason as to why they are getting this type of favourable treatment. Because there usually is, "a grass is greener" scenario on the other end with some players (see Hyman- though I still have my qualms about his usage). I just don't see it with those 2.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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Sep 28, 2015
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This is what bothers me more than anything.

Even if Polak was better than Carrick (he's not), Polak is on his last legs. The minutes he eats up are valuable development minutes for Carrick or someone else. Even if Carrick doesn't improve from what he is now, you need to let him try.

The same goes for Komorov. He played 19 minutes tonight, why? Is this the year we're going for the cup? If we're serious about thinking long term, Komorov won't be on this roster. Young players need to play to get better. Is Dominic Moore SO good that you just can't slot in time for Aaltonen? The same goes for Martin.

If we don't sell our UFAs like Bozak at the deadline I'll know this team honestly is just paying lip service to building for the future. They've fallen into the same trap of old management.
Great post. We have to commit one way or another. Half assing like this is only going to hurt us
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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Hyman has more good offensive plays in this game than Komarov has in the season, who is also a staple on the power play, yet it's always Hyman people talk about. I don't get that. The fixation with him is quite weird.

Komarov has been our worst offensive player by far this season. Matt Martin can't see him in his rear view mirror. And he logs tons of minutes, and sees power play time. Among player usage, he's in a league by himself. It's the only thing that I actually look at and see a problem. What is a problem is how we play our breakouts, how we attack the neutral zone and attempt entries, how we try to get the puck back.

When this team plays at its best, we are quick out of our own zone, we have people joining the rush creating a plethora of options in the neutral zone, we default to carry-ins if possible, we work a cycle where we let the puck do most of the work, we pinch more than anyone else to maintain pressure and create turnovers, and we force teams to play a quick game with a lot of pressure. We have changed our game on all those points, and in doing so taken our biggest strength and pretty much shoved it into what holes we had in our game.

Yes, we've won a lot. Due to absolutely unsustainable goaltending. Relying on getting the best goaltending in the league by far is not a good plan for success.
 
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Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
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Even when we were doing well, I've been trying to be optimistic and reach as to why Babock loves certain players, Martin, even Hyman (long-game)= understandable but I'll never understand his usage of Komarov, Polak.

There is no long game for Komarov or Polak. There is no big picture. There is no reason to play either in heavy minutes, save on the PK. And there is certainly no reason to play a low-event, simplistic, safe game with either (see Dubas's speech about simplicity in today's game). They don't generate anything the other way, plays and possession literally die on their stick. And they aren't adept enough defensively to make up the gap. It's even more head-scratching when you consider the options we have internally.

I'm optimistic anyone who vouches for either can give me a strong, good, rational reason as to why they are getting this type of favourable treatment. Because there usually is, "a grass is greener" scenario on the other end with some players (see Hyman- though I still have my qualms about his usage). I just don't see it with those 2.

I think the Leafs consider Borgman a possible future top 4 and they want Polak to help mentor him this season and Polak is a better defensive option then Carrick. Leo still plays a good solid two way game.

I dont think Leafs management considers us a cup threat this year.
 
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Duke16

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Apr 14, 2015
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The Leafs lack an identity right now. Why can't they actually play their 12 best forwards and load their top 6 just like Tampa.

JVR - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Bozak - Marner
Leivo - Kadri - Brown
Hyman - Aaltonen - Kapanen

No Martin, Moore, Komarov. F*** line dynamics and shitty "role" players who bring f*** all. This team wins and likely is the best team in the league when matching line for line. No longer would there be people out there wasting time and space. People arguing in favour of the 3 that I took out, just don't even bother, they all suck and bring nothing, they are simply filler. Komarov 1 ES point this year with Kadri and Marleau, guy is a joke at this point. Martin honestly pisses me off the least out of those 3.
 
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frog

Registered User
Apr 8, 2014
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This is what bothers me more than anything.

Even if Polak was better than Carrick (he's not), Polak is on his last legs. The minutes he eats up are valuable development minutes for Carrick or someone else. Even if Carrick doesn't improve from what he is now, you need to let him try.

The same goes for Komorov. He played 19 minutes tonight, why? Is this the year we're going for the cup? If we're serious about thinking long term, Komorov won't be on this roster. Young players need to play to get better. Is Dominic Moore SO good that you just can't slot in time for Aaltonen? The same goes for Martin.

If we don't sell our UFAs like Bozak at the deadline I'll know this team honestly is just paying lip service to building for the future. They've fallen into the same trap of old management.
What you are missing is this: Polak playing along side is gonna make Borgman's development that much better. Carrick is good but Borgman is not gonna learn from him, however although Polak may not be able to do what he used to in his prime, he still knows how to play and what to do and that is gonna make Borgman that much better. You will get your wish eventually and all the young kids will be on there own but for now they still have Marleau, Komorov and Moore in their respected roles to teach them how to do it so when there time comes next season or the season after they will have some wisdom to draw upon.
 
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Polaris1010

Registered User
Mar 23, 2017
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We’ve been playing crappy since the start of 5 in 7 nights. Also, you say the jump is not there because we have played 5 in 7 nights but we can’t draw in Carrick to add a little jump to a “tired” group? Lol
Don't see your point.

10 times zero, is still zero.

It's a coaching decision. End of argument.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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Bozak has been better than he normally is, imo. Probably not saying much but I can't really pin this on him.

1 goal against 2 backups in the last 3 games is pretty awful.
we only got two goals against Philly too, and Elliott is pretty awful for a starter. The problem is we're playing terribly and even after tonight Babcock is saying the team is proud of how they're playing and he thinks they're doing great. It's mystifying
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
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we only got two goals against Philly too, and Elliott is pretty awful for a starter. The problem is we're playing terribly and even after tonight Babcock is saying the team is proud of how they're playing and he thinks they're doing great. It's mystifying
I don't know if you understand advanced stats but this is from tonites game.

All situations against the Wild
  • 70 CF ~ Leafs
  • 44 CA
  • 61.4% 12 CF%
  • 28 SCF ~ Leafs
  • 18 SCA
  • 60.87% SCF%
  • 13 HDCF ~ Leafs
  • 10 HDCA
  • 56.52% HDCF%
 

Semantics

PUBLIC ENEMY #1
Jan 3, 2007
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No one is going to listen to Dubas' advice.

Look at the last two games. The opponents, two big teams, gave the smaller Leafs forwards no room, and shut them down for long stretches at a time.

What's Dubas' advice? The players need to play like they're bigger?

If Dubas' advice is to get the defense involved more with the offense, that could work.

Yeah, you make room by moving and managing the puck better. The Leafs have a bunch of smaller players and Babcock has them playing a grinding style like they're all 220 lbs.
 
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CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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I don't know if you understand advanced stats but this is from tonites game.

All situations against the Wild
  • 70 CF ~ Leafs
  • 44 CA
  • 61.4% 12 CF%
  • 28 SCF ~ Leafs
  • 18 SCA
  • 60.87% SCF%
  • 13 HDCF ~ Leafs
  • 10 HDCA
  • 56.52% HDCF%
I understand them better than you, clearly. It's pretty dumb to go by all situations when we had a 4-1 advantage in powerplays. Not to mention we were trailing so it should be a given that we drive the play a bit more. We still played poorly and I don't see why you have to dispute that
 

taurine330

Registered User
Nov 28, 2015
4,296
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Stockholm
I don't know if you understand advanced stats but this is from tonites game.

All situations against the Wild
  • 70 CF ~ Leafs
  • 44 CA
  • 61.4% 12 CF%
  • 28 SCF ~ Leafs
  • 18 SCA
  • 60.87% SCF%
  • 13 HDCF ~ Leafs
  • 10 HDCA
  • 56.52% HDCF%
I don't know the meaning behind these figures. Can someone explain?
 

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