Confirmed with Link: Leafs re-sign Kadri 6 year extension ($4.5 mill annually)

[4thline]

Look at Colorado

Soderberg - 51 points (5 years - 4.75 Cap Hit)

I'm not getting your point, please elaborate.

Colorado's downfall wasn't that Soderberg was their 2C, IMO it was a general lack of depth and a coach that gets less from it's roster than the sum of it's parts. Not a winning team despite their top end end talent.

 

[ULF_55]

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[Gallagbi]

Yep, but had 51 points, and is their 3rd. line center.

Looks like they used him as a 2C.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not getting your point, please elaborate.

Colorado's downfall wasn't that Soderberg was their 2C, IMO it was a general lack of depth and a coach that gets less from it's roster than the sum of it's parts. Not a winning team despite their top end end talent.

Point is Soderberg had 51 points, played 3rd. most ETOI/g for their centers, and has a cap hit of 4.75.

But as you point out, just having a player getting 51 points as their 3rd. center doesn't mean they are winning anything if the team has not addressed the other positions.

 

[Gallagbi]

Point is Soderberg had 51 points, played 3rd. most ETOI/g for their centers, and has a cap hit of 4.75.

But as you point out, just having a player getting 51 points as their 3rd. center doesn't mean they are winning anything if the team has not addressed the other positions.

Mackinnon spent most of the season with Duchene.

 

[ULF_55]

Looks like they used him as a 2C.

4th. on face-offs (McKinnon, Mitchell, Duchene, Soderberg)
3rd. even strength minutes played for centers.
2nd. most PK for centers
3rd. most PP for centers.

 

[dimi78]

Point is Soderberg had 51 points, played 3rd. most ETOI/g for their centers, and has a cap hit of 4.75.

But as you point out, just having a player getting 51 points as their 3rd. center doesn't mean they are winning anything if the team has not addressed the other positions.

Points isn't everything... Soderberg is a poor mans version of what they already have. They're missing ROR and the Leafs just signed one of those types at significantly less for 6 years

 

[Gallagbi]

4th. on face-offs (McKinnon, Mitchell, Duchene, Soderberg)
3rd. even strength minutes played for centers.
2nd. most PK for centers
3rd. most PP for centers.

They usually had Mackinnon and Duchene together, so eliminate 1 of those 2 from the numbers. He's awful on the dot so his FOT is low.

Top 5 in TOI/G, Top 6 in EV TOI/G. Spent most of his season with Comeau (in their top 6 ES TOI/G). Landeskog was the most common 3rd linemate (also in the top 6 ES TOI/G).

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Point is Soderberg had 51 points, played 3rd. most ETOI/g for their centers, and has a cap hit of 4.75.

But as you point out, just having a player getting 51 points as their 3rd. center doesn't mean they are winning anything if the team has not addressed the other positions.

Soderberg's numbers are comparable to Kadri's, but the main difference is that his contract goes from ages 29-34, while Kadri's is for 25-31. (This more than outweighs Kadri's contract including two years of RFA, imo.) Also, he didn't put up 51 points till after signing it, so this can't really be used as a comparable. (His numbers weren't drastically different before that though.)

 

[dimi78]

again I don't have an issue with the 6.
while I believe morgan wants to stay here etc. I think 6 is the perfect number

1: it gives him time to really cash in (and i'm sure we'd do it) in his 3rd contract.
2: if for whatever reason he wants to be all "Bye, Felecia" 6 is a lot shorter than 8 in that regard (i mean let's remember his first three years in the league were kinda... gong-showish. (even this year and that's with the better management/coaching. all this kid's known so far is losing. he's banking on us being good).

3: if for whatever reason WE want to be all Bye, Felecia! 6 years at a managable cap hit is a lot easier than 7-8.

it keeps all of OUR options open, it keeps all of HIS options open .

A whiles back Daisey I told you about smart money is to pay for potential and that's what this is about... Same with Kadri who's being groomed to be our version of a Kessler type player. When you wait for them to establish themselves first that's how you end up with a Subban contract eating a significant amount of cap. It comes down to believing in a player and acting on it that's the first hurtle... Indecision cost go's up.

 

[Pyromaniac3]

I've got the reality that no other teams could or did offer him anything.

Which means if he took a discount there has to be a higher offer.

He is being perceived as taking a discount because he is worth more in the open free market.

The only conceivable place for that to come from would be the team. Which would make Kadri and his agent the only pair in history to say "no that's ok, you keep the extra money".

Perhaps Kadri wanted more term and NTC in exchange for lower salary.

incredible that people get so entrenched that the basic concept of a discount off of list price is even being argued.

So is a UFA player, accepting a contract less in value than expected before free agency, incapable of being perceived as taking a discount? Because he didn't receive any offers before hand.

Here is a simple example: I am trying to sell my house, and my friend contacts me to buy it. Given that he has been a good friend, I accept an offer below market value (I didn't place the house on a public listing). My acceptance of a lower offer doesn't mean that the house value is less than market. I value my friendship more than some sum of money but the at the end of the day, the value of the house remains the same.

 

[Stephen]

A whiles back Daisey I told you about smart money is to pay for potential and that's what this is about... Same with Kadri who's being groomed to be our version of a Kessler type player. When you wait for them to establish themselves first that's how you end up with a Subban contract eating a significant amount of cap. It comes down to believing in a player and acting on it that's the first hurtle... Indecision cost go's up.

I don't see Kadri being a Kesler type player. He's would be the Blackhawks equivalent of a David Bolland, maybe the Caps version of Marcus Johansson or something like that.

 

[zeke]

Point is Soderberg had 51 points, played 3rd. most ETOI/g for their centers, and has a cap hit of 4.75.

But as you point out, just having a player getting 51 points as their 3rd. center doesn't mean they are winning anything if the team has not addressed the other positions.

mackinnon and duchene were linemates all year.

soderberg was the #2.

 

[dimi78]

I don't see Kadri being a Kesler type player. He's would be the Blackhawks equivalent of a David Bolland, maybe the Caps version of Marcus Johansson or something like that.

He's a Kessler type of player in many ways in that Kadri has been and they will CONTINUE to count on him to face the oppositions best and still be productive offensively. He had an anomaly early this season of playing some of the best hockey in his life but points didn't come from it and that right there is why he's being continued to be underrated in these parts.

You have all the right in the world to disagree but I could tell you this much Babcock, Lou, Shanny wouldn't be as high on those other guys and sign them to 6 year deals for a reason. It's another pay for potential contract just like Rielly's, time will tell how effective both will be in how they're being perceived as big parts of the future... Heck Gardiner got one of those deals first should have been 6 years as well but we had that turd Carlyle that made it just a little too risky with how he shattered his confidence.

 

[Pookie]

Again, if Stamkos takes $2 M per from Tampa, did he take a discount? Please don't tell me you are going to be that obtuse for the sake of making an argument?

You mean the UFA with actual competing offers takes less to stay in Tampa? Of course that would be a "discount."

Spot the key difference

 

[ULF_55]

They usually had Mackinnon and Duchene together, so eliminate 1 of those 2 from the numbers. He's awful on the dot so his FOT is low.

Top 5 in TOI/G, Top 6 in EV TOI/G. Spent most of his season with Comeau (in their top 6 ES TOI/G). Landeskog was the most common 3rd linemate (also in the top 6 ES TOI/G).

Okay thanks.

So 51 points, but not used to take face-offs, since being the 2nd. most used on the PK for centers, but 4th. on face-offs overall.

That's interesting, perhaps Mitchell took the face-offs on the PK, he did the most and he was worse at it than Soderberg, who was as you point out awful.

Leafs bought Kadri's UFA years for less than Soderberg got for his, Soderberg 4.75 as UFA and Kadri UFA years 4.25.

Anyway, to the contract, I think it is excellent value, 4.5 isn't difficult to swallow for any team.

 

[Stephen]

He's a Kessler type of player in many ways in that Kadri has been and they will CONTINUE to count on him to face the oppositions best and still be productive offensively. He had an anomaly early this season of playing some of the best hockey in his life but points didn't come from it and that right there is why he's being continued to be underrated in these parts.

You have all the right in the world to disagree but I could tell you this much Babcock, Lou, Shanny wouldn't be as high on those other guys and sign them to 6 year deals for a reason. It's another pay for potential contract just like Rielly's, time will tell how effective both will be in how they're being perceived as big parts of the future... Heck Gardiner got one of those deals first should have been 6 years as well but we had that turd Carlyle that made it just a little too risky with how he shattered his confidence.

That's just a general description of a useful player, that has nothing to do with what kind of game Ryan Kesler brings.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

You mean the UFA with actual competing offers takes less to stay in Tampa? Of course that would be a "discount."

Spot the key difference

Who is competing with Tampa? Spot the difference?

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Well here is the thing JR

Teams probably want 2 centers that can PK,right?

Just to make it easy talk, The goat is one of them long term and then?

my hesitation using Nylander would be TOI, per game, I'd rather him top 2 lines ice time and top PP ice time.

Good point in regards to the TOI. Just looked up Detroit and neither Zetterberg or Datsyuk was used on the PK. Zetterberg was a depth penalty killer some years ago but in recent years neither saw PK time at all. I guess so they could burn energy in the offensive zone instead. And that´s where Nylander will be the most effective. Just think he got some of the same skills Bozak has for killing penalties.

Will be interesting to see how Kadri does. He proved he could become a better defensive player so I guess he is ready for the next challenge of killing penalties.

 

[Pookie]

He is being perceived as taking a discount because he is worth more in the open free market

Perceived. Fine. But he didn't hit the open market. All we know is what the Leafs were willing to pay.

Perhaps Kadri wanted more term and NTC in exchange for lower salary.

Yes covered that. That's negotiation. Pages ago. Hit previous.

So is a UFA player, accepting a contract less in value than expected before free agency, incapable of being perceived as taking a discount? Because he didn't receive any offers before hand.

Here is a simple example: I am trying to sell my house, and my friend contacts me to buy it. Given that he has been a good friend, I accept an offer below market value (I didn't place the house on a public listing). My acceptance of a lower offer doesn't mean that the house value is less than market. I value my friendship more than some sum of money but the at the end of the day, the value of the house remains the same.

Yes because in theory your house never hit the market so you don't know what it would have sold for.

You might be taking a discount or if you have a foundation crack or old plumbing, your friend could be getting screwed.

Just because comps in the neighbourhood are favourable doesn't mean you will find a buyer that is willing to pay your price.

Of course, you could have a bidding war on your hands but the point is you don't know until you put it up.

House down the street is a prime example. They went to market at what we all thought was a fair price. It's been on for over a month and just took a $40k price drop. Buyers just weren't responding.

 

[Pookie]

Who is competing with Tampa? Spot the difference?

Then a guy with a blood clot who seeks security without testing the market is a guy with a blood clot seeking security without testing the market.

What he signs for is what he signs for. There are no comparables. Therefore no discount.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Perceived. Fine. But he didn't hit the open market. All we know is what the Leafs were willing to pay.

Actually you don't know that. All you know is what was settled on.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Then a guy with a blood clot who seeks security without testing the market is a guy with a blood clot seeking security without testing the market.

What he signs for is what he signs for. There are no comparables. Therefore no discount.

You're doing a fine job of trying to skirt around the fact you are being intentionally obtuse.

OK. John Tavares signs 8 years at $2M per. Thoughts?

 

[The Examiner]

Good point in regards to the TOI. Just looked up Detroit and neither Zetterberg or Datsyuk was used on the PK. Zetterberg was a depth penalty killer some years ago but in recent years neither saw PK time at all. I guess so they could burn energy in the offensive zone instead. And that´s where Nylander will be the most effective. Just think he got some of the same skills Bozak has for killing penalties.

Will be interesting to see how Kadri does. He proved he could become a better defensive player so I guess he is ready for the next challenge of killing penalties.

Babcock mentioned Kadri killing penalties, earlier in the year. I'm not sure what happened there. Did he think he wasn't ready based on the 5 minutes he did get or has he scrapped that plan altogether?

Next year, Hyman and Komarov are guaranteed to be on the PK. Froese also but I don't think he'll be on the team. I think Gauthier will spend another year in the minors so he won't be on it.

This leaves Bozak, Laich and Kadri (off the top of my head). I think Bozak and Laich would be the favourites over Kadri, based on experience. We'll see, I guess. Of course, I could be missing a couple of guys too.

 

[Duckrider]

I've got the reality that no other teams could or did offer him anything.

Which means if he took a discount there has to be a higher offer.

The only conceivable place for that to come from would be the team. Which would make Kadri and his agent the only pair in history to say "no that's ok, you keep the extra money".

incredible that people get so entrenched that the basic concept of a discount off of list price is even being argued.

It was Kadri himself who said this, how many times do people have to read this?