Seravalli: Leafs, Kings, Penguins, Devils, Hurricanes, Senators, all fits for Hellebyuck.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He’s backup. Leafs should run with Samsonov and Woll.



As was Hellebuyck. Samsonov had better numbers in the playoffs and essentially the same numbers in the regular season.

The Leafs should do whatever they have to to get better.

Hellebyuck is better than both, so go get Hellebyuck.

Be like Vegas, they haven't cared about loyalty since day 1.

What has Samsonov done to deserve loyalty?

I know your answer but 1 round is not the goal.

 

[Freaky Styley]

The Leafs should do whatever they have to to get better.

Hellebyuck is better than both, so go get Hellebyuck.

Be like Vegas, they haven't cared about loyalty since day 1.

What has Samsonov done to deserve loyalty?

I know your answer but 1 round is not the goal.

There's such thing as a salary cap though. It makes more sense for them to roll with Samsonov/Woll next year since they didn't lose because of goaltending. Spend that money on getting better on D and switching up the forward chemistry. I actually think Woll has the ability to get them there if his team is playing good team D.

Also Bob is just a result of getting hot. he's always been super inconsistent and he's been on. Not so much in the SCF, which should be further proof of the volatility of goaltending.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

There's such thing as a salary cap though. It makes more sense for them to roll with Samsonov/Woll next year since they didn't lose because of goaltending. Spend that money on getting better on D and switching up the forward chemistry. I actually think Woll has the ability to get them there if his team is playing good team D.

Also Bob is just a result of getting hot. he's always been super inconsistent and he's been on. Not so much in the SCF, which should be further proof of the volatility of goaltending.

Yeah Vegas hasn't cared about the salary cap eiher, it's been more of a suggestion that they have chosen to ignore.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Yeah Vegas hasn't cared about the salary cap eiher, it's been more of a suggestion that they have chosen to ignore.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. If you can figure out a way to put Marner on LTIR for the season, by all means.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Don't hate the player, hate the game. If you can figure out a way to put Marner on LTIR for the season, by all means.

Just put him in the minors and eventually he will hurt himself down there.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Actually I think you are selling the Sabres assets short.

Perhaps you haven't heard of Devon Levi. Also perhaps you haven't considered the Sabres are currently not even a playoff team / haven't entered their window (ie not a great timeline fit for a 30yo goaltender)

Perhaps you haven’t heard of the the ter
sample size?

Lots of highly touted NCAA goalies are a flash in the pan and then flame out. The likelihood of Levi ever being close to what Helle is candidly is 1/1,000,000.

Your team is ready to compete with a solidified starter. You want NJ getting him and haunting you for the next 5-7 years?

 

[heilongjetsfan]

It seems like it would be between NJD (Mercer) or LAK (Byfield).

I don't think we're getting Byfield for him, but I would like that very very much

 

[AcerComputer]

But Hellebyuck is better, if you can upgrade you do it.

I am sure you would say the same about the Tavares signing. In a cap world to get a marginal upgrade in goal I can't imagine it would do much to improve the team. He is also an older goalie than Samsonov. His 2023 numbers in the playoffs were worse than Sammy.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Don't hate the player, hate the game. If you can figure out a way to put Marner on LTIR for the season, by all means.

I'm not hating at all, I'm saying the Leafs should act the same way.

The Leafs don't need to LTIR Marner to do it, Murray and Muzzin will do.

I am sure you would say the same about the Tavares signing. In a cap world to get a marginal upgrade in goal I can't imagine it would do much to improve the team. He is also an older goalie than Samsonov. His 2023 numbers in the playoffs were worse than Sammy.

I don't care that's he's older than Samsonov he's better that's what counts.

 

[PainForShane]

Perhaps you haven’t heard of the the ter
sample size?

Lots of highly touted NCAA goalies are a flash in the pan and then flame out. The likelihood of Levi ever being close to what Helle is candidly is 1/1,000,000.

Your team is ready to compete with a solidified starter. You want NJ getting him and haunting you for the next 5-7 years?

Nah. Candidly speaking it's 99.997685185%.

I'll let you figure out how I got that number

 

[AcerComputer]

I'm not hating at all, I'm saying the Leafs should act the same way.

The Leafs don't need to LTIR Marner to do it, Murray and Muzzin will do.



I don't care that's he's older than Samsonov he's better that's what counts.

No the emphasis of my response was on the potential cap hit and the $$ to re-sign an aging goalie. So would this be a 1 a done type thing? Unless the Leafs are trading Sammy and Murray to WPG in exchange, I don't see a deal to be made.

 

[Thechozen1]

Giving up assets and signing a 29 year old goalie to a long term expensive deal is a big time risk. Personally I don’t think New Jersey should make such a short term move at the beginning of their window. Sign Bratt, sign Timo, run it back with Schmid getting more starts and go from there, IMO there should be no rush to acquire someone much older than the core and (in theory) primed for a decline.

As good as Hellebuyck is, I believe he has a better fit on an older team that is well within their window and can afford to potentially overpay him to maximize a current potential run.

Was ROY too old for the young up and coming Avalanche?

He was perfect for them. Solidified them more than Thibault/Fiset/Billington ever could have. Sometimes a young team learning to win just needs that elite veteran goaltender to guide them to that next level.

That’s something recent Leafs teams failed to address and they’ve just spun their wheels. You think you have time because the team is young but before you know it, 6 or 7 seasons have passed and the team is not so young anymore and still hasn’t accomplished what it wants to.

 

[Thechozen1]

I'd rather just run with Samsonov and Woll and target Helle, if he makes it to FA

That there sounds like HF Canadiens logic. Best not to lump yourself in with that crowd.

 

[Smitty426]

Holtz, Sharangovich, 2024 1st, for Hellebuyck

Or Jesper Bratt for Hellebuyck straight up.

Oooofffff!

It seems like it would be between NJD (Mercer) or LAK (Byfield).

LA can have him then!

 

[Whileee]

Considering the debate around Hellebuyck's value, having a consistently high-end goalie can be an important factor, especially for teams trying to make the playoffs.

Wins Above Replacement (last 3 regular seasons, data from Evolving Hockey):

Hellebuyck: 16.9

NJ goalies (combined): -1.7
BUF goalies (combined): -2.9
OTT goalies (combined): 4.9
LAK goalies (combined): 7.9
TOR goalies (combined): 7.1



McDavid 15.2
Matthews 12.7
Tkachuk 10.7
Marner 10.2
MacKinnon 9.4

 

[rams]

Lots of highly touted NCAA goalies are a flash in the pan and then flame out. The likelihood of Levi ever being close to what Helle is candidly is 1/1,000,000.

Challenge accepted!

Buffalo has its goalie of the future in Levi.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Considering the debate around Hellebuyck's value, having a consistently high-end goalie can be an important factor, especially for teams trying to make the playoffs.

Wins Above Replacement (last 3 regular seasons, data from Evolving Hockey):

Hellebuyck: 16.9

NJ goalies (combined): -1.7
BUF goalies (combined): -2.9
OTT goalies (combined): 4.9
LAK goalies (combined): 7.9
TOR goalies (combined): 7.1



McDavid 15.2
Matthews 12.7
Tkachuk 10.7
Marner 10.2
MacKinnon 9.4

You can’t just pluck a number like that and pretend it would be the same behind a different team. The Sabres’ goalies all looked terrible last season, in part, because the team played a very loose, offensive system with minimal defensive structure, and our goalies faced a ton of odd-man rushes and high danger chances. Unless Hellebuyck is secretly the second coming of Hasek, he probably wouldn’t look amazing playing behind that either. The Sabres should invest something into a stopgap/bridge to Levi, but the best thing Buffalo can do to improve its goaltending is improve its commitment to team defense.

 

[Fjordy]

Sabres’ goalies all looked terrible last season

Not Anderson

 

[tsujimoto74]

Not Anderson

I didn’t say they all looked the same. Of course some are better than others. But worth noting that Comrie posted fine numbers as Hellebuyck’s backup in Winnipeg in 21-22 and got brutally exposed playing the same number of games behind last year’s Sabres.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I didn’t say they all looked the same. Of course some are better than others. But worth noting that Comrie posted fine numbers as Hellebuyck’s backup in Winnipeg in 21-22 and got brutally exposed playing the same number of games behind last year’s Sabres.

Yes of course because the goalie who has faced the most shots and most high danger shots the past decade(Hyperbole I know but its pretty close) with a Vezina and nominated again is the same as career backup Comrie

I don't know but there is the distinct possibility one guy is really really good and one guy isn't

 

[Whileee]

You can’t just pluck a number like that and pretend it would be the same behind a different team. The Sabres’ goalies all looked terrible last season, in part, because the team played a very loose, offensive system with minimal defensive structure, and our goalies faced a ton of odd-man rushes and high danger chances. Unless Hellebuyck is secretly the second coming of Hasek, he probably wouldn’t look amazing playing behind that either. The Sabres should invest something into a stopgap/bridge to Levi, but the best thing Buffalo can do to improve its goaltending is improve its commitment to team defense.

Maybe you haven't watched the Jets play - their D has been anything but stellar.

Another way of assessing a goalie is to look at saves above expected, based on the volume and risk of shots against.

Here's where Hellebuyck stands among all NHL goalies in that metric over the past 3 seasons:

And if you prefer visual representations, here is Hellebuyck's career in terms of goals against vs. expected. He's been consistently excellent over the past few seasons, when comparing goals against in comparison to expected goals against.

 

[Fjordy]

I didn’t say they all looked the same. Of course some are better than others. But worth noting that Comrie posted fine numbers as Hellebuyck’s backup in Winnipeg in 21-22 and got brutally exposed playing the same number of games behind last year’s Sabres.

That's Comrie's problem, he played 19 games for the Jets in that season (not all of them were good, there were also failures), which is a very small sample. Adams and we were hoping that Comrie could make a career move, but it didn't happen, he didn't even get a big load and he fell through. Even Hutton played better than Comrie, although he also showed excellent numbers in St. Louis and he had a larger sample.

 

[MardyBum]

I don't understand how posters who have been here for years seeing (and participating in) the comments of "the Jets are awful, they're all Hellebuyck, they play no defense", talk about him unable to handle their teams lack of defense.

Hellebuyck won the Vezina with this :

 

[MardyBum]

Oh here's the Canadian division

 

[FerrisRox]

I am sure you would say the same about the Tavares signing. In a cap world to get a marginal upgrade in goal I can't imagine it would do much to improve the team. He is also an older goalie than Samsonov. His 2023 numbers in the playoffs were worse than Sammy.

Calling Hellebuyck a "marginal upgrade" over Samsonov is absurd.